SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw

[shyuhe]

I'm fine with starving. Our pop won't make a big difference. The bigger issue I see is whether we can buy all the missionaries necessary to spread Buddhism if we rush the UN. A missionary costs 60 base hammers, so 180 gold to buy. So we will have to slow build in Delhi and rush buy in two other cities per cycle. Not a big issue, but something to keep in mind if we succeed in rushing the UN (which I'm guessing won't happen).

edit: it might be worth stopping at T+5 to see if we need to switch to slavery.

 

[mystyfly]

Well I don't think it's a big problem to keep rushing missionaries after then UN if we build wealth everywhere and get all the gold from the AIs. It always takes a little while to spread so we don't need 360gpt. Also we have at least 12 turns to get them all done, I don't think that's a problem.

 

[babybluepants]

Yes, we'd only starve for one turn (though Delhi has to starve on the next). We're currently 119g short, with probably another 6gpt in gifted units. Since AIs only give cash in increments of 10, I'd see if I can chop 7gpt and save 1-2 cities from starving.

If we build in 3t, we'll have more cash than we can use due to the 3-missionary cap. If we miraculously succeed in the 2t build, slavery may be an option. We switched to US/OR this turn? Would a switch to Slavery still allow for a switch to Theo/Vassalage on schedule? Do we even need that switch? Edit: I'm still a bit unclear on when the vote actually happens.

One minor revision to my 2t plan:
T+1 Start missionary in Devil's Gate
T+2 Tale off queue in Devil's Gate - start in Delhi
T+3 Spread in Incense; if it's successful - buy next turn in Devil's Gate, if not - buy next turn in Delhi.

Edit: I'm assuming we can only rush-buy one per turn in this scenario. In reality, we should be able to slow-build quite a few hammers, so maybe production isn't even an issue. It's more the 3-missionary cap and logistics.

 

[mystyfly]

Well, my MM modifications yield 9g, then there's 6g from gifted units, leaves 104g remaining. If you set 1-2 cities to starve you should be able to get the other 4g and hope for 100g from AIs... Sounds more or less reasonnable to me...

I so hope there is a wonder getting built next turn and we can get 500g+ from the AIs who have failure cash... that would render all our discussions now so worthless Well, still better than if the AIs get the cash in 2t, just too late for us to use on the UN

 

[shyuhe]

@mysty - bbp's MM plan includes all the tile changes (basically setting all cities to starve this turn). The only other way to save gold is from disbanding/gifting units. A wonder built next turn won't yield gold until the turn after that, unfortunately That's why I think it's unlikely we'll get the gold we need.

@bbp - we should spread Tao in Delhi to cut on unit maintenance. If we revolt to slavery on T+5, then we can switch to theo on T+10. The UN victory vote with a 2 turn build is on T+11 so a theo swap will still give us +1 diplo.

 

[babybluepants]

Don't exactly remember, but I think the only mid-game wonders left are Sistine, AW and Sankore. I believe we gave away Music last TS, and are still holding Philosophy and Paper (can't check now). Justinian should be the only one with DR, so no failure cash on SM or Versailles... Is that right?

Edit: x-post with shyuhe. Nevermind...

Do they ever build NWs in multiple cities? Any other way for them to get cash? Maybe Justinian DOW's Toku and insta-captures a city.

 

[shyuhe]

T+13 isn't a bad date anyways, it puts us at turn 250!

 

[babybluepants]

Just for reference (from the second page of the thread):

That may be just a tad too optimistic. I think shyuhe's original estimate is probably correct, assuming that getting the resources will be a bit of a PITA. Otherwise, diplo would be doable circa t250, most likely (I will now begin to pretend that I never spewed all that BS about culture ). That kind of tech pace probably requires Oxford at 1 AD as a minimum?

Oxford = 40 AD for a Turn-250 win. We meet our optimistic estimate.

 

[babybluepants]

Ok, unless someone has a compelling reason to think an AI might get 120g IBT, I'd be ok settling for the 13t win and not bother starving any pop. Let's just decide today, so I can finish it and we can go see what the other teams are up to.

 

[mystyfly]

Right, too bad there won't be wonder cash - but I think 100g are doable anyway.

We can also just disband the tao missionary... Doesn't matter.

Well probably the AI is less likely to get 100g+ in one turn on emperor; I'm not at all used to this level... we'll see. I'm happy if we just try to get the gold, and after you hit enter bbp we'll see whether we can cut the finish date by another turn. Turn 250, exactly 1/3 of the game is not bad indeed

I'm also curious to see how the others are doing... The only other teams that might beat us or come close are the ducks, xteam and probably GK...


Oh and bbp: for knowing all along when we'll finish

 

[babybluepants]

Oh and bbp: for knowing all along when we'll finish

Why, thank you, kind sir.

Ok, I'm gonna stop changing my mind now and just starve the poor bastards. Will play sometime in the next 24 hrs, depending on RL developments.

 

[mystyfly]

Take your time... but don't push it , it's the weekend and I wanna spend some time finding out how the other teams hoped to keep up with us

 

[shyuhe]

I have to as well.

Now to for the results

Oh and just a final reminder, here are the conditions:

* Every AI is still alive and running a state religion.
* All your cities have access to fur, dye, silk and ivory.
* You have the welcoming party of four great people and four warriors standing ready on the only fur in the world. (The great people can be of any type)
* You are running a state religion which has been spread to every one of your cities.
* No more than two AIs have a 'you declared war on us' negative modifier towards you.

 

[Silu]

Good luck! And double check the win conditions; I'd probably check them 100 times if I was playing

 

[LowtherCastle]

bbp: Do the work, try to gain a turn. Or it's on your shoulders if we lose by a turn...

 

[mushroomshirt]

Go bbp! (I feel like a cheerleader - gimmie a "B", gimmie a "B", gimmie a "P" - RAH RAH RAH!)

 

[babybluepants]

Started playing...

Next turn: I gifted and disbanded some units, then adjusted for +242gpt, saving Zhou (culture pop needed) and Bombay (missionary build center) from starving. Got exactly 120g from trades with 4 AI.

Spoiler :

 

[babybluepants]

Hmmm... Slightly unexpected issue - we're a touch short on votes (320/326) as of the SG vote. It's 1AM and I've had about 5-6 beers tonight, so I'll let you boys comment before continuing. Save's up.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 920 AD to 940 AD:

Turn 237, 920 AD: Zhou has been pacified.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Isabella has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Zara Yaqob has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Gandhi adopts Universal Suffrage!
Turn 237, 920 AD: Gandhi adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 237, 920 AD: Saladin refuses to talk.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Tokugawa is the worst enemy of Isabella, Justinian I, Saladin.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Saladin is the worst enemy of Mehmed II.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Zara Yaqob is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Mehmed II will trade Divine Right
Turn 237, 920 AD: Will Trade Map: Justinian I, Mehmed II, Zara Yaqob
Turn 237, 920 AD: Two Fish will shrink to size 12 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Oasis will shrink to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Rice will shrink to size 12 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Marble will shrink to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Sugar will shrink to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: Varanasi will shrink to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: DevilsGate will shrink to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 237, 920 AD: J. S. Bach (Great Artist) has been born in Two Fish (Gandhi)!

Turn 238, 930 AD: Two Fish has shrunk to size 12.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Oasis has shrunk to size 4.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Rice has shrunk to size 12.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Marble has shrunk to size 9.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Sugar has shrunk to size 10.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Varanasi has shrunk to size 3.
Turn 238, 930 AD: DevilsGate has shrunk to size 8.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Mehmed II has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 238, 930 AD: Gandhi has completed The United Nations!
Turn 238, 930 AD: You have constructed The United Nations in Delhi. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 238, 930 AD: The borders of Zhou have expanded!

Turn 239, 940 AD: Bombay can hurry Buddhist Missionary for 111?.
Turn 239, 940 AD: DevilsGate can hurry Buddhist Missionary for 150?.
Turn 239, 940 AD: Tokugawa has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 239, 940 AD: Justinian I will trade Divine Right

 

[babybluepants]

nvm: I'm stupid. BUFFY's not counting Isabella for some reason. Why is that?

 

[mystyfly]

Good job on the UN.

Regarding the votes, izzys votes aren't counted. I am not sure but I guess it might be "spoiler information" to count hers with the hidden modifiers or so... Quite sure we'll get her votes nevertheles... still try to grow as much as possible

Good luck