SGOTM 11 - Shaka, not stirred

[Andronicus]

4. wouldn't Cleo declare on Cathy if we had an MPP with Cleo (and Cathy attacks us)? Or are the locked alliances stronger than the negotiated?

I hope we finish before we have the option of mpp

 

[I. Larkin]

Few second window

 

[Abegweit]

Depends... - we only sign one alliance.

If we sign in Cleo and declare on Cathy,

1. Cleo would declare on us if we attack Cathy.
2. would Cleo declare on us if Cathy attacks us first?
3. do we get a rep hit in either of those cases (no gpt involved, just a tech)?

4. wouldn't Cleo declare on Cathy if we had an MPP with Cleo (and Cathy attacks us)? Or are the locked alliances stronger than the negotiated?

I meant three wars, sorry. Anyway, I have tested this. It appears that it works the way that you thought. Declaring war does not cause the alliance to trigger. Only an actual attack does that. To me, this means that an alliance with Cathy against Mao is clearcut.

Edit: apparently Ivan has tested it too. It appears that Mao made the first attack, then Cleo went after him.

 

[Paul#42]

Few second window

Holy s**t!

 

[Abegweit]

I opened the game. Looks pretty good. We're in Monarchy and the barbs have been cleaned out with no losses Currency's out there

I would suggest changing builds (U -> worker; H -> granary; I -> wonder).

 

[I. Larkin]

I did major steps on preturn: We discuss with Abeweit and I found his plan the best possible. I did 2 embassies and declare to China and bring Cathy vs China for Ploy. Nothing happend and I make 1 more emb with Cleo.
Revol without whiping. 6 turns Anarhy. Lose 4 schilds in H for Impy. Stay in N. Archers won. Bring troops to N and clean area turn ago. Met Korea at turn 4. They had Curr. Did not trade any. IBT 5 and 6 MMP worked: China hit Russia, Cleo declare to China and hit them immideately. India and other members of China block declare to Cleo. Now our Army "avarage" vs others.

 

[Abegweit]

We're actually weak to 3 civs, but India is not one of them

 

[I. Larkin]

I opened the game. Looks pretty good. We're in Monarchy and the barbs have been cleaned out with no losses Currency's out there

I would suggest changing builds (U -> worker; H -> granary; I -> wonder).

Thanks. Suggestions resonable, but I'd like to ask: U better grow to have "balance with Z" + it is barraks City now. There many Forests around I. We will lose them if cut when Wonder. H->Granary? it is frontier City and it needs barracks. And it will grow too fast.

 

[I. Larkin]

Few things to do, but I don't know how and when: We may trade Currency for 22 gpt and declare to India (hit them on their land). We may trade C for MM to Russia. Problem is that India far too far.

 

[I. Larkin]

1. revolt as soon as you have enough units to hold barbs in check (in 2 turns I recon - without poprushing in our core towns).
2. declare on China immediately. Sign in Russia (for Philo). India will stay calm till we attack a chinese unit - that might take a while - no urgency for defence & GA...
3. Start FP in Isa immidiately. Build 2-3 Impis in Z and U.
4. irrigate one grassland in Z's range for +5fpt. The worker should chop the forest NW of Z then (during anarchy).
5. Hold Ngome - I did not see there were two of them...
6. draw archer in Z one tile W so he can get the barb horse, no matter if it turns N or E.
7. keep researching Currency. Best trading bet. AI rather choses CoL then Curr.
8. connect a horse.
9. Do not submit before Wotan and Klarius have posted their 1250 BC files

1. I had filling, that I will hold: so I revolt at preturn.
2. Done..
3. What for?
4. In Anarchy workers worked very slow. It is OK now. Z have 5 sfpt now. Do we need more?
5. Done. Area around clear.
6. I did, it is important move.
7. I did, biut Korea have it...
8. Well. Did not thought about it...
9. OK

 

[Abegweit]

Thanks. Suggestions resonable, but I'd like to ask: U better grow to have "balance with Z" + it is barraks City now. There many Forests around I. We will lose them if cut when Wonder. H->Granary? it is frontier City and it needs barracks. And it will grow too fast.

H needs to build workers, and it certainly is not a border city. It is many tiles from there.

U is at an efficient size right now for alternating between military and workers. Difference in size between cities can be handled by MPs. Later, it can grow.

I? Good point about the forests. However, a couple would be quite useful for a wonder build. The barracks is just wasted maintenance if we start a wonder next. How about a cat or 2 instead, followed by the wonder after that?

Speaking of that, we need to choose a couple of cities to build cats and galleys. We are building too many barracks right now. One or two need to switch to cats.

Few things to do, but I don't know how and when: We may trade Currency for 22 gpt and declare to India (hit them on their land). We may trade C for MM to Russia. Problem is that India far too far.

Currency trade is a good idea. However, wait until we can actually hit them. Send the impy and about three archers up the peninsula. In the meantime, turn research off. We can always use the money.

Also start a road to India. This is high priority. So is connecting the horses.

 

[I. Larkin]

"1) Currency trade is a good idea. However, wait until we can actually hit them. Send the impy and about three archers up the peninsula. In the meantime, turn research off. We can always use the money.

2)Also start a road to India. This is high priority. So is connecting the horses.". Trade possibiliy C vs MM may gone soon. What do you think about "harsh move" like rush Galley in H and sail to India to make Korea declare?
I want Paul to discuss, beacause he play after me.
1) Good idea, but 10% Sci may be OK (to reduce gpt)
2) It is too slow...

 

[Abegweit]

"1) Currency trade is a good idea. However, wait until we can actually hit them. Send the impy and about three archers up the peninsula. In the meantime, turn research off. We can always use the money.

2)Also start a road to India. This is high priority. So is connecting the horses.". Trade possibiliy C vs MM may gone soon. What do you think about "harsh move" like rush Galley in H and sail to India to make Korea declare?
I want Paul to discuss, beacause he play after me.
1) Good idea, but 10% Sci may be OK (to reduce gpt)
2) It is too slow...

We don't want to lose the shields we have invested in Currency so 10% is pointless. Anyway, minsci is almost always a bad idea in C3C. Fifty turns is simply too long. As for how to start the war, what about sending an impy on a suicide mission? We don't have to win the attack, you know... And he might survive, preferably by retreating.

Edit: the road is an absolute necessity. We don't have to finish it before the wars start, though.

 

[I. Larkin]

1)We don't want to lose the shields we have invested in Currency so 10% is pointless. Anyway, minsci is almost always a bad idea in C3C. Fifty turns is simply too long.
2) As for how to start the war, what about sending an impy on a suicide mission? We don't have to win the attack, you know... And he might survive, preferably by retreating.

3) Edit: the road is an absolute necessity. We don't have to finish it before the wars start, though.

1) You are right here, I'm not going to make 50 turn gambit. 0% is OK.
2) I am affraid spears not at the India's soil. The war means nothing (will not trig MPP). Galley will do it much faster.
3) Sure. I am planing provaction, not military operation...

 

[I. Larkin]

Holy s**t!

Paul, if you will not reply soon, you will get much stronger s**t, belive me. [j/k]
I am going to wait one turn and if "nothing happend" trade Curr from Korea ~26 gpt and MM vs Curr frpm Cathy. Then rush Galley and sail to India to trig MPP against us.
To All: Where to settel next City?

 

[Paul#42]

I want Paul to discuss, beacause he play after me.

Thanks

pace
It looks like we have plenty of time to decide the next steps. Team Wotan has two turnsets to complete before reaching us. I would like to wait at least one set of them because they had the most rapid expansion so far.

military
Abegweit, are you sure about the cats? I'm not really used to play them for good reason. They are awfully slow. I never played AW but I know it's the key there. But don't you guys think we can balance our wars once we (finally) gain the tech lead and do more attack then defense? I value cats for defense but for offense I judge them close to worthless.

foreign affairs
Other idea already in discussion: Buy Currency for gpt and dow on India. For that task we should send Impi and 2 vet archers, 2 elite archers and elite warrior to NE. Impi should take barb camp (4 turns) before making the deal and declaring on India. As soon as units approach, our stack will be ready. We strike first with archers, exposed archer will be covered by Impi. Might take a while before an Indian unit attacks our Impi.
A GA should be not too bad, then.

research
bad luck about currency...
We are just 3 turns (+ anarchy) into it, how about switching to Literature? That should give us a monopoly unless Gyathaar changed the whole AI tech evaluation...
In the long run I think we need some libs. We will have to research to MT I'm sure, if not to Railroads...

exploration
Intombe and Bapedi should switch to curraghs for suicide missions. There must be something else to the west. We need to meet the rest!

EDIT: Urgent task
we need more workers!!

@Ivan:
Another formal issue:
I know you like to shorten the log. I'd like you to take more time to write down a detailed log like we do. It helps a lot to follow your steps.
Without detailed turnlogs we will always have breaks between the turnsets, moving units back and forth. I consider it important to play continous as a team. I would appreciate if you do this log as thoroughly as in your first turnset. Thanks.

And: be more patient, it takes some time to write all this nonsense

I am going to wait one turn and if "nothing happend" trade Curr from Corea ~26 gpt and MM vs Curr frpm Cathy. Then rush Galley and sail to India to trig MPP against us.

EDIT: I would really like to not hurry things right now. Please wait for a day's discussion on the next steps before progressing!

 

[I. Larkin]

OK, when I finish my turnset I will write turnlog. Now, I am about to make another harsh move. Do you agree? You did not answer where to settle. I will not do it but where you want next City?

 

[I. Larkin]

Thanks

pace
It looks like we have plenty of time to decide the next steps. Team Wotan has two turnsets to complete before reaching us. I would like to wait at least one set of them because they had the most rapid expansion so far.

military
Abegweit, are you sure about the cats? I'm not really used to play them for good reason. They are awfully slow. I never played AW but I know it's the key there. But don't you guys think we can balance our wars once we (finally) gain the tech lead and do more attack then defense? I value cats for defense but for offense I judge them close to worthless.

foreign affairs
Other idea already in discussion: Buy Currency for gpt and dow on India. For that task we should send Impi and 2 vet archers, 2 elite archers and elite warrior to NE. Impi should take barb camp (4 turns) before making the deal and declaring on India. As soon as units approach, our stack will be ready. We strike first with archers, exposed archer will be covered by Impi. Might take a while before an Indian unit attacks our Impi.
A GA should be not too bad, then.

research
bad luck about currency...
We are just 3 turns (+ anarchy) into it, how about switching to Literature? That should give us a monopoly unless Gyathaar changed the whole AI tech evaluation...
In the long run I think we need some libs. We will have to research to MT I'm sure, if not to Railroads...

exploration
Intombe and Bapedi should switch to curraghs for suicide missions. There must be something else to the west. We need to meet the rest!

EDIT: Urgent task
we need more workers!!

@Ivan:
Another formal issue:
I know you like to shorten the log. I'd like you to take more time to write down a detailed log like we do. It helps a lot to follow your steps.
Without detailed turnlogs we will always have breaks between the turnsets, moving units back and forth. I consider it important to play continous as a team. I would appreciate if you do this log as thoroughly as in your first turnset. Thanks.

And: be more patient, it takes some time to write all this nonsense



EDIT: I would really like to not hurry things right now. Please wait for a day's discussion on the next steps before progressing!

pace
It, is OK, but I want finish my turnset. I may not submit it to "net", but We may discuss, how you will play.
military
We short of everything. The only hope, that AIs also...
research and foring affairs
We will not let AI any!! it is wrong Idea to suply them our monopoly Techs.
So we do not need Literature.
Unfortunately I can't sail without MM, but I will get it next turn.
LOL!! Rail Road??? Knights is a max!
EDIT: Urgent task
I think we have enough. We need a bit more troops, at least warriors.

 

[Andronicus]

Some thoughts
1) I expect most of our conquest to come with knights, pre knights we may be able to take out India and Japan with horses - avoiding their UU would be nice.
2) I think we need many more workers
worker tasks which have some urgency include mining goats and a hill to get Z a combo factory, roading towards India to speed troops going there, roading to Ngome to connect horses, mines around Ngome and Ulundi to make these 1st ring towns productive (and give us military), irrigate plains around Mpondo to give it more tiles to use. Another 5 or 6 workers I reckon.
3) Galleys to NW passage - getting MM ASAP and sending galleys to the narrow passage I mentioned earlier so we can get more contacts I believe is urgent. Both Bapedi and Intobe could be switched to galleys, make crossing and go opposite directions. We do not know if other continents advanced or backwards, either way knowing them to our advantage.
4) Why warrior in U? If for mp then Impi at least provides some barb protection and can move 6 tiles on roads alowing flexibility (sev reg impi to mp our core may not be a bad idea)
5) Why Ngome 1spt, can work forest (->2shield) getting BG on growth for 3 shields (21% waste)
6) I too favour horses over cats for speed, numbers will be important - already we are average to Indians so 5 or 6 horses could do a lot of damage with an impi or 2 for protection.
7) If do 26gpt deal with Korea it is important to get it wiped out ASAP.May even be cost effective to rush a galley in H to get those units into Indian territory sooner - every turn sooner saving us 26g.

 

[Abegweit]

Paul, if you will not reply soon, you will get much stronger s**t, belive me. [j/k]
I am going to wait one turn and if "nothing happend" trade Curr from Korea ~26 gpt and MM vs Curr frpm Cathy. Then rush Galley and sail to India to trig MPP against us.

No! No. No. No. No. No. No.