SGOTM 11 - Smurkz

[ControlFreak]

Hmm, should we not also use some of the Uskudar fleet to liberate the freezing Miss Germany in Cologne? It would be good to take Germany out completely, to stop flips.

That's not a bad idea. They could take the viking town up there as well which would be a decent improvement to our tile count. Watch out for the warships though. I'm afraid of losing our army to davy's locker.

 

[zyxy]

Plan generally looks good to me. A few details, apart from what has been mentioned already:

I've not upgraded a lot of naval units but I am assuming that naval vessels can only be upgraded in cities with harbors. I hope I'm wrong.

IIRC you are right. Sorry.

I checked the Civlopedia, but did not find a definitive answer to this question: do galleys still disappear at sea when we know Magnetism?

No, they don't.

Take Nuremburg next turn and move troops in place to assualt Heidleberg the following turn. Pillage horses if any extra movement. Must cross two hill to get close to the city. Will need cannon, which means waiting for it to move up to the front. After Heidleberg falls we keep steamrolling to the northwest, looking for the sea and Washington (Magellan's Voyage would be helpful,though not greatly).

I am not sure that you need to wait for cannon at Heidelburg, it depends on the number of cavs you can get up there. The closest arty is just north of Berlin, and there are three more cannons south of Berlin that can join this stack, for a total of 6 cannons. I would rather not wait because it will take 4 turns for this rather small stack to get to Heidelburg. If you really need to wait, then the cavalry can hit Nottingham before Heidelburg and still be in time to recombine with the arty stack.

Magellan's will not really be important by the time we get it, btw.

 

[ControlFreak]

Some more quick notes:
Upgrade through the big picture
I check this in a test and you can use the big picture after we learn Magnetism to go into the town view and scroll via arrow keys to each of the harbor towns. It will let you right click on the galley, choose upgrade, and still have full movement at the start of the next turn. So...make sure you move the ferry boats into Put-In-Bay before you hit enter. Then after the science advisor tells you we learned Magnetism use the next available big picture to F1 into the cities. You will be upgrading Uskadar, Chendu and Put-In bay. Unfortunately the galleys heading for Xinjin aren't there yet which costs them 2 turns, but it couldn't be helped. We're starting the war a turn early.

After China
Looking at the possibilities for the Xinjin Galleons (departing two turns from now) I think our best option is to land S,S,E of Conventry in the forest between the hills. This group should be consist of: a healthy army (Medi from Seoul or Cav from Canton if still healthy), a combat settler (rushed from Wonsan) and the rest cavs (Have space for 11.) After they land the settler can found its town and then both Avinon and Canton will be within striking distance. The Galleons will return three turns later with more troops.

(BTW, if we had Magellans, they would return in two turns instead of three. Don't under estimate that extra move point in certain cases. Galleons with Magellans can go coast to coast across 4 ocean tiles. Galleons without it can only cross 3 ocean tiles. The only 3 tile crossing from the Eastern Shore is from Cheju to Miami. We may want the galleons to head up there after the first two waves are brought over to Conventry.)

Following the timeline, Avinon and Canton will hopefully be ours on CB's fourth turn. That means we need make sure we don't force ourselves into needing peace from the Vikings until at least turn 5. I'm thinking their threat would be coming from the Heidelberg area, so it might be wise not to over extend ourselves in that region. Waiting one turn for the cannons North of Berlin and near Frankfurt to come over with the cavs to attack Heidelberg is not a bad idea. It's not the pace of the German war alone that sets our victory, its the combination of gains made from Viking/France/Germany and then America/England. Timing our wars so that we hurt France and the Vikings and eliminate Germany all on the same turn before settling for peace is our goal.

The southern galleys in Chendu and Jolly will be used for bringing the second wave of troops for continuing the war on France and then start bringing the rushed settlers from Japan to fill in the areas opened up by capturing towns.

America
The best place to set our initial stack is 2W of Atlanta. From here we can reach Seattle, Philly, Atlanta and Washington on the first turn. The remaining cities are so spread out that we're not going to be able to take more than one or two towns with cavs in any other spot. We can get cavs from Hastings to the launch point in 1 turn so we have 6 turns to eliminate Germany, take the French (and ex-English, ex-American) towns of Avinon, Coventry, Cantebury and Miami as well as the Viking island town with Cologne. And have the cavs healed enough to do damage on turn 7 against America. (CB, that's your goal, set it up! )

Also:

• There are workers on the tile N of Xinjin that will complete the road. Use them first before trying to move units from the Seoul area towards China.
• Definitely rush the settler in Wonsan. He should go directly to Xinjin. Baghdad would be another good settler rush. We can use a settler and a group of workers to complete the road from Coventry through Miami to get our Chinese troops to America faster.

 

[CommandoBob]

I will not be able to play these turns.

Well, not before Monday and that's too long.

Suprise Christmas plans, changes in other plans, longer days at work...I just won't have the time to concentrate on doing this right the first time.

So I guess this is back to xyzy and then to Niklas?

 

[ControlFreak]

Sorry CB, I feel for you. These would have been fun turns.

Handing off to our warmonger and captain in the critial last turns ... not a bad alternative for the team.

 

[zyxy]

Sorry to hear that, CB. But I hope your Xmas plans are good!

Got it, I will review the save tomorrow and I plan to play on Sunday.

CB, would you like to write our first spoiler?

 

[zyxy]

Plan:

I plan to play around five turns, depending on how long they take, and leave the attack on America for the next player.

• No research.
• Any town that can grow reasonably fast will do so.
• Gift Viking foothold to England.
• Disconnect El-Amarna salt. Switch cav and market builds to horse.
• Spread out the impi's near Canton to catch the Chinese workers. Move the majority of the cavs near Canton (but not the army) to the mountain W of Beijing.
• Declare on India this turn, capture their worker and Jaipur.
• China will declare on us and we eliminate her as well. Attack order: Nanking, Beijing, Canton, Shanghai, Tsingtao.
• Move galleys into Put-In Bay and Xinjian. On the IT, use the Big Picture after Magnetism to upgrade galleys in Put-In Bay, Uskudar and Chengdu.
• Concerning the galleys around Tatung and Nara, I am uncertain whether to get a harbor in Pearl for upgrades, or move our galleys to Put-In Bay. Of course this will be phased so that we still have transport.
• The attack plan for Coventry & Avignon sounds good. Except that I would prefer to land and settle on the hill S-SE of Coventry, for extra defense. The only (minor) problem is that we will land right on France's frontline and reinforcement path, probably. I'll rush a settler in Wonsan on turn 0, and perhaps a few more. After Coventry & Avignon we can head north for Canterbury & Miami.
• Heidelburg could be attacked with cavs only on turn 3, or with cavs and 6 cannons on turn 5. It is on a hill, so perhaps the delay would be worth it. I'll see how the game develops. Perhaps the best thing is to let the cavs go for Nottingham first and then recombine with the guns.
• The fleet from Uskudar will go for Cologne and Hareid first, then for the Viking mainland.

Did I miss anything?

 

[ControlFreak]

Plan:

I plan to play around five turns, depending on how long they take, and leave the attack on America for the next player.

• No research.
• Any town that can grow reasonably fast will do so.
• Gift Viking foothold to England.
• Disconnect El-Amarna salt. Switch cav and market builds to horse.
• Spread out the impi's near Canton to catch the Chinese workers. Move the majority of the cavs near Canton (but not the army) to the mountain W of Beijing.
• Declare on India this turn, capture their worker and Jaipur.
• China will declare on us and we eliminate her as well. Attack order: Nanking, Beijing, Canton, Shanghai, Tsingtao.
• Move galleys into Put-In Bay and Xinjian. On the IT, use the Big Picture after Magnetism to upgrade galleys in Put-In Bay, Uskudar and Chengdu.
• Concerning the galleys around Tatung and Nara, I am uncertain whether to get a harbor in Pearl for upgrades, or move our galleys to Put-In Bay. Of course this will be phased so that we still have transport.
• The attack plan for Coventry & Avignon sounds good. Except that I would prefer to land and settle on the hill S-SE of Coventry, for extra defense. The only (minor) problem is that we will land right on France's frontline and reinforcement path, probably. I'll rush a settler in Wonsan on turn 0, and perhaps a few more. After Coventry & Avignon we can head north for Canterbury & Miami.
• Heidelburg could be attacked with cavs only on turn 3, or with cavs and 6 cannons on turn 5. It is on a hill, so perhaps the delay would be worth it. I'll see how the game develops. Perhaps the best thing is to let the cavs go for Nottingham first and then recombine with the guns.
• The fleet from Uskudar will go for Cologne and Hareid first, then for the Viking mainland.

Did I miss anything?

That covers what I had.

I thought about the hill landing in France too, but the forest provides just as much protection for the landing party. Settling in the forest will be better from a territory grabbing standpoint. And after Avignon and Coventry are taken, the newly settled town will not face attacks so I don't think it needs to be on the hill.

Taking all the German towns on the turn after Uskadar troops land on the island is the goal. You may be right about the cavs meeting the guns at Heidelburg. Sorry there aren't any muskets over there for covering the cannons yet. Getting the Mace Army from India to German ground for covering the cannons seems like an urgent matter.

 

[McLMan]

Things have eased up a bit, if only temporary. Catching up on things.

 

[zyxy]

I played 1 turn sofar, and will continue later this evening. It takes a lot of time, and I don't know how far I'll get.

Turn 0, 880AD: Gift Viking Foothold to England. They are sooo pleased:

Spoiler :

Shift some troops around, and then:

Spoiler :

After the first cannon fire on Jaipur, the Chinese get trigger-happy:

Spoiler :

And India goes down:

Spoiler :

We take Shanghai,

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

We disconnect our salt, switch our builds and found a few new towns:

Spoiler :

Gained 100 tiles sofar, 377 to go. Pop is at 59%.

IT: lose a cav in France and one in Germany. We spot a Viking invasion fleet (frigate + caravel) coming from Hareid.
We learn Chivalry, Edu, Banking, Astro, Economics, Nav, Physics, ToG, Magnetism, Medicine.

Unfortunately the game does not let me upgrade all galleys . All Chinese towns come out of resistance.

Turn 1, 890AD: For some reason we did not get Music, even though America and England have it. Of course the tech elevator

changed all our horse builds to knights - should have thought of that. It seems quite difficult to unhook all iron sources so

we'll be stuck building knights...
We kill a German cav and liberate Nuremberg at no losses:

Spoiler :

The Viking fleet is threatening Bursa, Izmit and Giza, and there is not a lot I can do against it. Perhaps stick one unit in each and

hope it scares them off. And keep some cavs in reserve to knock out any landings.

 

[Niklas]

Looks good so far! Nothing to add, just keep up the good work and give me the best possible setup.

The Music Theory thing was explained by Gyathaar in one of the previous games, don't recall which (India to Space maybe?). Two techs, Music Theory and Recycling, are listed out of order in the resources file listing the techs. When you get the GLib the game goes through that file in order, for each tech giving it to you if you have the prerequisites. Since those two are listed before their prerequisite techs, you don't get them.

 

[zyxy]

Played a few more.

Turn 1, 890AD (cont'd): while we wait for our cannons to arrive at Heidelburg, our cavalry is staged for attacks on Lyons and Nottingham. I whip frigates in former Egypt and former Ottomania. It costs valuable pop, but we need some ships to intercept landing parties. Smurkzi is settled. Hamburg is out of resistance and whips a lib.

IT: our Lyons stack flawlessly kills two French cavs on defense . Germany sends a 1 hp cav right next to our front line troops, and the Vikings think it is a good idea to send a settler pair right next to our stack in the east of their lands . No Viking landings!

Turn 2, 900AD: I try to bombard the Viking frigate with my own, but fail. I deploy galleys in its path to try to hold it up while my frigates are closing in:

The German cav and Viking settler pair get knocked out. I capture Lyons (2 musket, 1 pike) at no losses. Two cavs are lost at Nottingham, but we are victorious:

Our armada from the eastern shore sets sail, and we land at Hareid. There is a big stack of axeswingers near Heidelburg

IT: we lose a few cavs against the axeswingers but also kill a few German and French troops on defense. The Viking ships change course towards Leipzig.

Turn 3, 910AD: At the loss of only 1 galley we manage to sink the two Viking ships! We kill 3 rifles and an axeswinger (losing 1 cav) and:

Two muskets and a longbow (and another mourned cav) later we liberate Miss Germany:

Our brave cavalry destroys the Viking axes around Heidelburg without further losses. We land a massive force at Coventry.

Also found Zmurkzzz.

IT:

Turn 4, 920AD: Because of the time I'll halt here and continue tomorrow. The save is attached FYI.

 

[ControlFreak]

Masterful handling of our sizable army and our newly founded warships. (Where'd you get them apples?)

It was also wonderful foresight to grab Lyons with the Knights Templar. We should roll over the AI now. I haven't looked at the save, but I'm not sure it isn't worth eating a little more of France if possible before Joans boyfriend Ragnar gives here Nationalsm.

 

[ControlFreak]

Briefly looked at the save and noticed some things.

• Germans have Nationalism but we don't so it looks like we grabbed the Library a few turns too early. No matter though, I'd rather have those few extra turns than Nationalism. We might be able to get it for peace from the Vikings? They'll sell it to us for a Mutual Protection Pact with peace. Seems like waiting for the cannons was a good idea after all.
• I see you opted to land on the hill anyway. If that's the case, you should have split the forces and landed many of the cavs on the hill one North accompanied by the cannons. They could have bombed Coventry to help with the assault and the cavs could have reached Canterbury from there also.
• We have several settlers standing on roadless tiles in Egypt. Why? All the settlers being built up there were destined for the Germany area. We can gain tiles for domination much faster by shipping settlers over there. Towns for the sake of towns at this point is useless. We can't use the gold for upgrades and aren't researching so settling worthless towns in Egypt that don't gain any territory is counterproductive. On that note, it's better to make settlers in the German area than it is to make temples. They are cheaper, and gain almost as much territory. Two settlers (3NE of Berlin and N,NE of Leipzig) in Germay along the Eastern seaboard can grab 19 tiles. Plus as the war moves towards England and America, their towns are so far apart we're going to need settlers to fill the gap. At this point we don't have turns to wait for temples and their culture buildup. Don't found towns that don't gain tiles for domination.
• The cannons are so slow it may be benefitial to use the ones coming from Egypt as 10s disbanded in settler building towns in Germany. We don't need to quell resistors for that. In fact, building trebs in our non corrupt towns and upgrading them to cannons before shipping them to germany may also be better than building knights. Do we have enough cavs yet?

More tomorrow.

 

[zyxy]

Turn 4, 920AD (cont'd): Another day, another town:

Spoiler :

CF was right of course, I should have landed the guns next to Coventry. But I am lucky, as it is defended by only 1 musket:

Spoiler :

The army and 1 cav defeat 2 muskets and a rifle at Avignon (oddly enough, the rifle was the last defender):

Spoiler :

We capture some workers, lose 2 cavs against a very stubborn musket at Canterbury, but finally kill the two defenders and:

Spoiler :

We spot another nice stack of berserks near Heidelburg. Germany now has rifles, and our progress here will get harder.

Spoiler :

IT: Bad news:

Spoiler :

We didn't lose any units, fortunately. I should have whipped it down I guess... A few of our towns riot (probably because we lost a lux at Hamburg).

Turn 5, 930AD: Scandinavia is now in Anarchy. The trouble at Hamburg is shortlived:

Spoiler :

After a massive bombardment another German fortress falls:

Spoiler :

The French frontline troops are at Canterbury so I stick the cav army in for defense. I knock out some muskets and crusaders at minimal loss, and I think we'll be fine.
Found a few more towns:

Spoiler :

This looks like a good moment to hand it off, so I'll quit here.

notes for the next player:
There are a lot of troops underway. This is what I would do:

• We can stage an attack on Chartres, using one ship hop, like this:
  
  Spoiler :

  
• These ships can unload at Miami or reinforce Canterbury which seems to be facing the French frontline army:
  
  Spoiler :

  
• I think we could also charge from Lyons. The front here has been rather quiet.
  
  Spoiler :

  
• Germany is reduced to two towns, and we can take both in a few turns:
  
  Spoiler :

  
• We also have a lot of reinforcements on the water between Egypt and Germany. They could help finish Germany and then move into America.
• There is a little stack next to Oslo.
• There are troops ready in Hareid. You can either transport the cavalry this turn, or the army next turn. I would probably wait for the army, and perhaps send a second ship for the cavalry.
• I don't think we will reach America before the RoP runs out, but it doesn't matter really, as America is not so big anymore.
• I think we should make a serious effort vs France while she has no rifles. It looks like France has run out of cavs too, I have only seen a trickle.
• For troop movement, keep in mind that we still have an RoP with England, so we can easily move from the Western front to the Eastern and v.v.
• There are probably a few settlers on goto, I hope you don't mind. There are several ready to embark in Egypt and in the north of our home peninsula.

The save.

 

[Niklas]

Nice going, this shouldn't take me long!
Got it...

I'll look the save over tomorrow morning, comments are much appreciated.

 

[ControlFreak]

Looks great zyxy!

Niklas will have his hands full finding all the units to move. zyxy is a master multitasker and must have four or five campaigns going.

My only contribution after a quick look is that the Hareid troops could to an end around and land near Boston in three turns, well timed to open two fronts on America.

 

[Niklas]

Sigh, I've been looking the game over, but I still find myself with a very limited supply of time. The situation is complex, and to go through it and post a strategy would take as much time as the actual playing. If I'm going to have a chance at playing this side of the new year, I will need to use what time I have for playing and nothing else. So, I'm asking the team's leave to just play after my own head, of course consulting anything written in this thread, but without posting a strategy first. I'm confident I could bring this to shore just fine.

Chances are I will start playing tomorrow morning, or maybe even start the first turn tonight.

 

[zyxy]

So, I'm asking the team's leave to just play after my own head...

I wonder how you do that, playing after your own head. You mean, your head plays first, and then it's your turn? . I wanna see this, so you have my permission . (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Looks great zyxy!

Niklas will have his hands full finding all the units to move. zyxy is a master multitasker and must have four or five campaigns going.

My only contribution after a quick look is that the Hareid troops could to an end around and land near Boston in three turns, well timed to open two fronts on America.

Well, thank you! The multiple campaigns have to do with our huge number of troops - they don't fit in a single front .

Some more input:
- I would not make peace with anyone at this stage. Our goal is not to eliminate any civs, but to grab as much land and pop as quickly as possible.
- Exception: if some civ will give us towns for peace, then take it. And redeclare right away.
- L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!

 

[ControlFreak]

I agree with zyxy on the no peace unless big gains are offered. With most of our forces on the Battle Continent, we should be able to make large gains in short order. The fact that the Germans and Vikings and France have rifles is not much deal to us now.

I'm concerned that even without making a strategy, you will have enough time to play. It could easily take an hour and a half per turn at this point. But if you are confident in giving it the thought it needs, by all means proceed without the strategy guide. I think we've got most of the ideas deliniated previously anyway.

My refresher if it helps:

• Switch most of the German builds to settlers. Eliminating them will help prevent flips and make the quelling of resistors much easier. Settlers should grab the open land on the Eastern Shores of Germany (all tiles grabbed by two settlers).
• Settlers should be shipped from Egypt/Ottomania to the SE of viking land. We can claim the entrenched tiles in the East as well as the pennisula in the SE.
• France will become harder to take from if they've got rifles. Maybe a quick push of their coastal cities along the Franco German bay and the SW corner. Stay away from the capitol as it will have the most defenders and will also be the biggest flip risk.
• I still think our biggest land grab potential is by ROP Raping the Americans/English simultaneously. So don't delay too much by going after France. Especially if they start having multiple rifles in their towns. Don't forget to send settlers from the German cities up to the empty areas as part of the ROP Rape. Most of america's offense is gassed or fighting the Vikings now so counter attacks will be limited.
• If the cannons can't reach american or French cities in time, use them to disband in germany to finish the settlers faster.
• Make sure the Frigates keep an eye out for viking boats. Any other landing can be dealt with with newly built Cavs.

Good luck!