SGOTM 11 - Team Newbie

I propose: Killing Vikings and Germans in one turn, our units should be enough for that, PaperBeetle surely can tell you how many per town we need (outlying tonws probably need 4 cavs, core towns up to 10 or so)
Then allying Americans and English vs the French s.t. they throw their units at them.
Then America should be an easy kill.
 
My thoughts exactly.
I think Wardancer would say (we seem to be speaking for each other :confused: ) that the one hit kill is not important; just start the attack as soon as there are enough units present to finish the job, even if some must heal up and fight again a couple of turns later.
Actually the difference between these approaches is often purely logistical; suppose we can have forty cavalries in Scandinavia by 900ad (I'm just guessing - I don't know the details of our troop deployment) which would be enough to take about eight towns (still guessing) and then finish up by 920ad. Or we could delay the attack until 920ad, by which time we have 60 cavalries there, better placed, and they can finish the job instantly.

How about this for a theory of when to start the attack: our general movement of troops is from our core, over the sea to Germany, along German roads and over the straits to Scandinavia, through Scandinavia and into America, ending in the two northwestern peninsulae. We start our attack when we have (a) some cavalries who have nowhere further to go along this route and (b) sufficient forces to fight in each territory (at least 40 in each).
If this would stretch our forces too thin, then the route could be shortened to end in northern Scandinavia instead of gong through America. Then the American campaign is conducted by veterans of the Scandinavian campaign.
 
How many units is enough? I don't know, and investigating towns is not cheap. An average of five cavalry per town should be sufficient to do the job, though maybe it takes them more than one turn. But the great skill of cavalry when ROP raping is being able to balance unit->town assignments after the start of the attack, due to their fearsome movement range.

In this map, I imagine 5 cavalries stationed at each red dot, ready to choose which town to attack, as indicated by the red lines. In addition, we would have one cavalryman stationed adjacent to each town, because we know that each town will need at least one attack to take down.



Of course a plan like this is not so rigid that one should delay the attack unduly; if 90% of troops are in place and the other 10% will take another turn or two, then one may as well make the move right away and hope that the RNG is not set against us.

From all this analysis, I get one further thought; we need more units in Scandinavia than Germany. The Vikings have more towns, they may be re-arming with French saltpeter even as we speak, and veterans of that campaign will be needed to move on America, or support the American province against England, depending whether we do all three civs at once. The Franco-german border is short and easy to defend (defend the mountains well, forcing French units to head into the jungle), whereas the Anglo-american border is much longer, and we may be able to pick off northern English towns if they do not have much military spare in the area.
 
The capital or a town with a wonder might need slightly more troops. make sure to move to the outlying cities first s.t. the first units to arrive make the longest distance.
Before you declare war on America, make sure that they are at war with France.
 
Made a bit of a hash of it. Did not get France at war with US before I dowed on the USA. Forgot to but the treasuries of Scandanavia, Germany and USA before I attacked.

I followed PaperBeetle's troop placement plan, but knew things weren't going to go quite to plan when I lost two cavalry to spearmen on my first attack. Anyway to cut a long and incompetent story short America is dead, Scandanavia has four towns left (two on the mainland, two on the northern island), Germany has two towns left (one on southern island, one on mainland). With any luck Germany should fall next turn. The date is 910AD.

Download the save here

I'll pass over to the next player now 'cause I won't be able to play for a few days, but more importantly we need archphoenix to recover the situation.

And a pic:
 
At the moment I'm most scared of counter attacks. I mopped up most of the stray German and Scandanavian units with my troops that were unable to reach enemy towns to attack. But the English and French might attack in force and I'm not sure there's enough of our troops, healthy enough to defend particularly well. I have just landed about 6 cavalry in Germany so that should help the situation slightly.
 
That's why I wanted the French and English to be at war...then at least France couldn't do a counter attack. When did you do the attacks? Are the cities flip safe for this turn?
 
Well I attacked all three civs at once, but I had gone home (where I have no internet access) before you posted so I didn't get you tip about starting the France vs America war. But presumably to start this war we'd need to be at war with the US too. This would mean that we then couldn't take advantage of the ROP rape which worked nicely in the US so I don't think that was too big a problem. I captured all the cities on the current turn, no idea whether they are flip safe.
 
No, the plan would have been. Declare war On Germans or Vikings (France DOW on us), then ally America or England vs France, then declare on America.

If you captured them on the current turn, they are safe this turn. I hope the next one can capture the remaining cities on the next turn s.t. all captured cities are safe.

Next one: Fill in the gaps with Settlers, try to capture the remaining Viking and German cities first. Then fight England. I'd rather ignore France, but maybe send an army to pillage Saltpeter. Otherwise just fight off their counter attacks.
 
socralynnek said:
No, the plan would have been. Declare war On Germans or Vikings (France DOW on us), then ally America or England vs France, then declare on America.

Okay that makes more sense to my idiot brain. But if we'd allied America against France and then crushed America in one turn then that doesn't provide France with much of a diversion. But yes England allied against France would certainly have been effective. Darn it!
 
What happened on the islands? I should have posted earlier that the attack shouldn't begin until we reached the islands. This is because our troops are vulnerable when landing and waiting a turn to attack, so the landings should have been done while we were still at peace. But I don't know where the ships were at the start of the turnset... if it just took too long to get there, then there's not much we could have done about that.

There are still 96 tiles to get on Alpha. How are the temples/settlers coming on? Any temple that is not yet built needs to be changed to a library and rushed immediately, whatever the cost; add workers, disband units, whatever.
I won't be able to see our military deployment until I get home, but judging by the map, we should be trying to finish this in 960 or 970ad, so anything (including a town's 10th culture point) that comes after that date is too late.
 
We had three cavalry on the northern island, but they were able to defend against them. We had about 4 cavalry and two impi on the southern island but they were not enough to take the town. I have now shipped an extra cavalry and a settler to the northern island.

I whipped quite a lot of temples and used the workers to towns trick to do it. However some towns wouldn't let me artificially grow them above size three which wasn't big enough to whip temples. I filled in some gaps with settlers too.
 
Can we not short whip temples via explorer and caravel, adding a work after each whip?

Nice of the Vikings to found that second town for us on north island... if only they had done it 20 turn ago, it wouldn't autoraze :p
 
If we leave the island towns as the last to capture then would that not make them the capital? Can capitals autoraze? re temples: I probably could short whip them I am just not good enough at civ to realise that was an option.
 
We must also try every turn to get peace with each of the civs. Don't rely on CAII to spot peace options; sometimes it misses them. Of course, I don't actually think that anybody will be prepared to talk to us before the end of the game, especially given their defiance during our last world war, but it must be worth trying.

It sounds like we are going to need all our units on Beta just to keep the AI from over-running our positions, but if we do have anything spare, remember that resisting (and even rioting) towns can rush settlers if the shields come from disbanded units (or chops).
If we have inherited any buildings on Beta, sell them. Apart from harbours of course. Do we have a harbour there? If not, we should rush one.
 
Sorry, I am too busy to play in 2-3 days, so please kindly shift me if anyone want to finish the game at 960-970AD.
pity that the game don't finish in my verdant hand, but I prefer to see a better finish date. :D
 
I propose to switch the turn order a little, s.t. PaperBeetle plays next (and maybe last).
Bucephalus once stated he prefers weekends and I can step aside.

Someone against this proposal?

The islands shouldn't hopefully be a big problem as the AI normally doesn't have many units there to counterattack.
 
Oooh dear :p

Only joking, doesn't look too bad TaxPayer - In summary:

i) Good job on short rushing the alpha continent temples with workers. Although, as PaperBeetle points out, you should have used a 40 shield unit to part rush to get around the size problem.

ii) ROP Rape looks reasonably well done although I think we probably got our strat a bit wrong. With hindsite we should have either just attacked the Europeans or attacked all 3 but made sure we finished them off in one turn. I think the mix of strats was the equivalent of the half shot/half cross manouvre that I often use when playing football!

We are right to be scared of counter attacks and whilst I don't think we have too much to fear from France I do suspect that the English cavalry will make a bit of a dent in our former America and Scandinavian provinces. Flips will also be a problem for a few turns until we can take these guys down.

On the plus side I do think that our sheer weight of units will allow us to hold the line and we have enough land to creep over the limit once we get out the settlers and a bit of culture.

iii) Bad call on not buying their gold before the war starts but that probably won't have much consequence at this stage of the game.

Also, on the plus side - PaperBeetle to the rescue! Yay :)
 
Ow yeah - and not buying in England against France was a bit of a cock up. That said, it may have been tough to do given the state of our rep.
 
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