Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
OK, thanks.
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SGOTM 11 - Team Newbie
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Wardancer said:
We could whip a galley from the northernmost Korean town and send it around the Russian coast - there is a town up there that we can't see, so I'd say that counts as not having all the coast. And we should check out that northern island mentioned by socralynnek too. The southern Viking island is only a 3-tile job if my fog-gazing is correct, so maybe we can get away without checking it out further... but we have some galleys off our core's coast don't we? Might as well send one of them over for a look.
(No subscribed thread emails for me either)
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Pre-turn: I'm not sure how many units Socralynnek left with movement points, but I'm going to treat them as pre-turn moves.
I'm going to abandon both Edrine and Yaraslavi', once I've used them to facilitate movement to the next objective; the flip risk is unacceptably high in both.
Militarily, I think I have enough units to make progress on all three fronts, simultaneously. The troops from Edrine will take Bursa, via Antalya, giving us control of Leo's. I've a number of horses heading for Mecca, ready to upgrade as soon as we control Leo's; once upgraded, they will push in to Egypt in a pincer movement with the troops being rallied at Anjar, ready for an assault on Elephantine. The troops around Yaraslavl' should be enough to take Novgorod, then once healed, I will turn them Westward against Izmit. Since we really could do with keeping 'Leo's', I shall concentrate most energy on eliminating Osman's cultural influence.
Oh, and I've sent those idle galley's out exploring. Whipped a few more Horses. Founded Isandlwana , near to Delhi.
Enter.....
IBT: Abe and Bismark sign Peace; Abe and Ragnar sign Peace; Abe and Joan sign Peace; Ragnar and Lizzie sign Peace; Bismark and Lizzie sign Peace; Joan and Lizzie sign Peace; At least John Lennon will be happy. I'll have to see what I can do to spoil his mood. Russian galley sinks one of our explorers; despatch another.
560 AD: Elite Impi kills LB outside Vladivostok, creating a MGL. I immediately despatch him to Mecca; that has sealed Egypt's fate.
Capture Anatalya, no casualties; Move troops next to Novgorod; Move troops outside Elephantine; Pillage around Thebes with Army.
Abe and Lizzie will both talk peace. Decline, for the moment.
IBT: Nada.
570 AD: Elephantine holds on by the skin of it's last unit's teeth. Grrr; troops approach Bursa; Capture Novgorod (temporarily), no casualties. Horses begin to arrive at Mecca. With luck I'll have Leo's next turn. Sank a couple of Egyptian boats. Abandon Novgorod.
IBT: Nada:
580 AD: Capture Bursa, and also Aydin; Leo's is ours. Connect Iron, upgrade 9 Horses, disconnect.
Okay, I'm going to pause here for advice. Egypt has Metallurgy, and they will give peace & Metallurgy for a gpt deal; if I do that, then attack Osman, am I right in thinking Egypt will DOW without us having a rep hit?
I'm going to abandon both Edrine and Yaraslavi', once I've used them to facilitate movement to the next objective; the flip risk is unacceptably high in both.
Militarily, I think I have enough units to make progress on all three fronts, simultaneously. The troops from Edrine will take Bursa, via Antalya, giving us control of Leo's. I've a number of horses heading for Mecca, ready to upgrade as soon as we control Leo's; once upgraded, they will push in to Egypt in a pincer movement with the troops being rallied at Anjar, ready for an assault on Elephantine. The troops around Yaraslavl' should be enough to take Novgorod, then once healed, I will turn them Westward against Izmit. Since we really could do with keeping 'Leo's', I shall concentrate most energy on eliminating Osman's cultural influence.
Oh, and I've sent those idle galley's out exploring. Whipped a few more Horses. Founded Isandlwana , near to Delhi.
Enter.....
IBT: Abe and Bismark sign Peace; Abe and Ragnar sign Peace; Abe and Joan sign Peace; Ragnar and Lizzie sign Peace; Bismark and Lizzie sign Peace; Joan and Lizzie sign Peace; At least John Lennon will be happy. I'll have to see what I can do to spoil his mood. Russian galley sinks one of our explorers; despatch another.
560 AD: Elite Impi kills LB outside Vladivostok, creating a MGL. I immediately despatch him to Mecca; that has sealed Egypt's fate.
Capture Anatalya, no casualties; Move troops next to Novgorod; Move troops outside Elephantine; Pillage around Thebes with Army.
Abe and Lizzie will both talk peace. Decline, for the moment.
IBT: Nada.
570 AD: Elephantine holds on by the skin of it's last unit's teeth. Grrr; troops approach Bursa; Capture Novgorod (temporarily), no casualties. Horses begin to arrive at Mecca. With luck I'll have Leo's next turn. Sank a couple of Egyptian boats. Abandon Novgorod.
IBT: Nada:
580 AD: Capture Bursa, and also Aydin; Leo's is ours. Connect Iron, upgrade 9 Horses, disconnect.
Okay, I'm going to pause here for advice. Egypt has Metallurgy, and they will give peace & Metallurgy for a gpt deal; if I do that, then attack Osman, am I right in thinking Egypt will DOW without us having a rep hit?
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Sounds good. I like Leonardo 
@fellow Londoners: there's an exhibition of Leonardo design work in the V&A. Maybe we should go and see if we can get upgraded for half price?
Yes, attacking Osman (the 'trigger') will cause Cleo (and Cath) to dow, provided that the attack occurs on, or into, Ottoman territory.
The question of whether there is a rep hit is the same one we were chewing over a page ago, in respect of our dow on Korea. Breaking the peace with the Ottoman may degrade, but not destroy, our per-turn rep. But we've done it already in this game, so I don't see why we shouldn't do it again. The sensible precaution would be to ensure that we have no ongoing deal with the Ottoman apart from the peace(20)=peace(20) deal.
But we can have deals going on with Cleo and Cath, as they will be responsible for dowing us; the gpt for Metallurgy deal you mention, gpt for any chump change, and presumably we should take the opportunity to make use of their ROPs too while we are at it.
Edit: I don't know the precise details of all our previous trigger attacks, but I guess they have been clean, so we should try to do the same here. That is to say, dow Osman via diplomacy while we are not in his territory, and then move in to his territory and attack. This is because the AI makes no distinction between ROP rape and sneak attack.
archphoenix
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 355
make sure teleport troops is banned 
edit:
worker advice:
worker should only build road or chop or ir around corrupt citys,
so Bangalore_RCP22 has 2 slave mining, Umtata_RCP19 has 2 slaves cut,
another,
if we capture a 1 pop town from Egpty, add a india worker and whip a rax,
who will gone? Egyptian or Hindu?
edit:
worker advice:
worker should only build road or chop or ir around corrupt citys,
so Bangalore_RCP22 has 2 slave mining, Umtata_RCP19 has 2 slaves cut,
another,
if we capture a 1 pop town from Egpty, add a india worker and whip a rax,
who will gone? Egyptian or Hindu?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
@Paperbeetle: I'm not sure if you understood me correctly; We are still at war with Cleo, Cathy, and Osman. I am proposing Peace with Cleo only, just to get Metalwork. What I was asking is this: If I make peace with Cleo, then continue the war with Osman/Cathy, when Cleo re-declares are we 'clean'?
In principle (which I considered spelling "principal" to annoy TaxPayer) that works. However, there is a problem.....
When you call peace with Cleo you will ALSO automatically be given peace with her allies. We can however, remove our troops from the territory of one and re-declare war (and attack) in order to re-instate the war with all three.
This will also give us another round of false ROP rapes on the other two.
But to answer your question. I do believe we will break the GPT deal and also keep the rep clean. We will be breaking a peace deal with either the Ottomans or Russians though. But this shouldn't be too much of a problem.
However, I actually think we should take this trade even if meant a hit to rep. I think we should also begin full research towards MT so we can get those cavalries rolling out.
When you call peace with Cleo you will ALSO automatically be given peace with her allies. We can however, remove our troops from the territory of one and re-declare war (and attack) in order to re-instate the war with all three.
This will also give us another round of false ROP rapes on the other two.
But to answer your question. I do believe we will break the GPT deal and also keep the rep clean. We will be breaking a peace deal with either the Ottomans or Russians though. But this shouldn't be too much of a problem.
However, I actually think we should take this trade even if meant a hit to rep. I think we should also begin full research towards MT so we can get those cavalries rolling out.
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
If you sign peace with Cleo , we get instant peace with the other two.
I propose the following: Sign peace with Cleo with buying Met for gpt, sign a ROP too. Sign ROP with Ottomans.
Position our troops near Ottoman cities to have enough to take all in one turn.
Move units out of Russian territory but place a few to be able to attack from outside two tiles away Russian city next to our core.
Position a few units in Egypt territory to be ready for pillaging.
Then: DOW on Russia, attack (and take) their city next to us, Egypt and Ottomans will declare on us without rep hit (if we don't have a per turn deal with Russia, but only Russia matters then)...Take Ottoman cities which will eliminate flip risk if they don't have a Settler in a Galley, pillage Egyptian territory which will hurt them much. Then take a few Russian cities (probably raze them after one turn)
I propose the following: Sign peace with Cleo with buying Met for gpt, sign a ROP too. Sign ROP with Ottomans.
Position our troops near Ottoman cities to have enough to take all in one turn.
Move units out of Russian territory but place a few to be able to attack from outside two tiles away Russian city next to our core.
Position a few units in Egypt territory to be ready for pillaging.
Then: DOW on Russia, attack (and take) their city next to us, Egypt and Ottomans will declare on us without rep hit (if we don't have a per turn deal with Russia, but only Russia matters then)...Take Ottoman cities which will eliminate flip risk if they don't have a Settler in a Galley, pillage Egyptian territory which will hurt them much. Then take a few Russian cities (probably raze them after one turn)
One more point....
I notice that Cleo has Astronomy too.
Can we try and get this from her? It would certainly speed things up A LOT if we can use caravels (and more importantly sea squares) to get our units over to the beta.
We should be able to buy both. Since we can get GPT of something in the region of 350 per turn by switching the slider to 100% tax and every citizen making less than 3 uncorrupted trade to taxmen.
Remember it doesn't matter that everybody is starving and we are making a big GPT deficit because we will be breaking the deal by attacking their allies on the same turn so we can shift everything back to the way that is was straight afterwards.
May be we can get banking and pp too! You never know.
I notice that Cleo has Astronomy too.
Can we try and get this from her? It would certainly speed things up A LOT if we can use caravels (and more importantly sea squares) to get our units over to the beta.
We should be able to buy both. Since we can get GPT of something in the region of 350 per turn by switching the slider to 100% tax and every citizen making less than 3 uncorrupted trade to taxmen.
Remember it doesn't matter that everybody is starving and we are making a big GPT deficit because we will be breaking the deal by attacking their allies on the same turn so we can shift everything back to the way that is was straight afterwards.
May be we can get banking and pp too! You never know.
Further.....
We can do the same trick on the US/UK block by doing peace with UK to buy some of their techs - I would really like to get Navigation if possible. I suspect they may have it.
We would need to gift the US one of our towns which we would then retake to restart the war.
We can do the same trick on the US/UK block by doing peace with UK to buy some of their techs - I would really like to get Navigation if possible. I suspect they may have it.
We would need to gift the US one of our towns which we would then retake to restart the war.
Ok.. just one more point.
Once we have disconnected a civs saltpetre and iron we should not worry about flips.
Just leave a few warriors or impi in the town to kill resisters and a Knight outside to kill the free spear they will get when it flips.
These towns are very valuable once the are out of resistance because at pop 8 that is worth 140 shields of whipping! That is two Knights!
Once we have disconnected a civs saltpetre and iron we should not worry about flips.
Just leave a few warriors or impi in the town to kill resisters and a Knight outside to kill the free spear they will get when it flips.
These towns are very valuable once the are out of resistance because at pop 8 that is worth 140 shields of whipping! That is two Knights!
Ok just one more point.
I really think we should start building galleys out of our west coast towns. We are going to need a lot to ship chain our boys across to Germany (especially when Liz gets MOW - am I right thinking she needs Magnetism for these?).
I really think we should start building galleys out of our west coast towns. We are going to need a lot to ship chain our boys across to Germany (especially when Liz gets MOW - am I right thinking she needs Magnetism for these?).
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Indeed she does. We were using them just a couple of COTMs ago, and yes, they are brutal. The dream of huge armadas of MoWs sailing all over, endlessly growing in size, really does work. Of course, I am sure the AI can find a way to mis-use them, but still it would be nice to avoid them if possible.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Okay, thanks for all your input. A couple of points: I'm not sure if the reverse ROP rape will be necessary; I'm fairly sure I can finish Osman in my turnset without it, and Russia will probably require just a few more units than I have available, so I suggest using veterans of the Ottoman campaign to do the job.
I anticipate Egypt being on their last legs by the time I'm finished, so IMO our continent will belong to us by the time the next player finishes his turnset; given this, I'm whipping Settlers out of our corrupt cities now, instead of Horses. Our core cities can build enough Horses to cover any casualties, and atm I'm creating a lot of gaps that need filling.
MOW does need Magnetism, but so do we if we are to make use of our Armies on Beta. I'll do my best to get us there if possible.
I anticipate Egypt being on their last legs by the time I'm finished, so IMO our continent will belong to us by the time the next player finishes his turnset; given this, I'm whipping Settlers out of our corrupt cities now, instead of Horses. Our core cities can build enough Horses to cover any casualties, and atm I'm creating a lot of gaps that need filling.
MOW does need Magnetism, but so do we if we are to make use of our Armies on Beta. I'll do my best to get us there if possible.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance! My games rarely get this far down the tech tree.
I thought we got galleys with Nav - but thats not actually right - we need magnetism.
Which is a pain since ideally we would like to get those armies over to the beta.
I thought we got galleys with Nav - but thats not actually right - we need magnetism.
Which is a pain since ideally we would like to get those armies over to the beta.
archphoenix
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 355
MT is a prior tech, so I think we needn't research it ourself,
especially AI research tech is fast enough.
especially AI research tech is fast enough.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Contd.
Okay, we definitely can't get gpt deals unless it's tied-in with peace, so I'm going to go for the maximum scam. If I mm the Empire sufficiently, I can gpt Egypt for Metallurgy, then trigger the MPP with an attack on Osman; make peace with Liz & Abe, giving Liz gpt for Astronomy and Banking, then DOW Abe to trigger the MPP.
That's the theory - I hope I don't screw-up.
IBT: Nada.
590 AD: Everything has gone according to plan; we now have Metallurgy, Astronomy, and Banking. We are also back at war with the Middle Easterners, and the Liz/Abe Combo.
No military action, I'm waiting for damaged units to heal. The flip risk at Bursa is huge, but It's well worth our while keeping it, so if it does, I'll just flip it back at the point of a sword.
IBT: Bursa flips.
600 AD: Capture Vladivostok; advance on Izmit; advance on Alexandria; found New Zimbabwe; re-take Bursa; connect/reconnect, upgrade 5 horses at Mecca.
IBT: Bit of Egyptian troop movements; English Carousels appearing.
610 AD: Destroy Izmit; fighting on the Egyptian border gives us another MGL; destroy Alexandria; destroy Ottoman city N of Bursa (forgot it's name); advance on Elephantine.
IBT: Bad RNG at Elephantine costs us 2 Knights, and 1 damaged; retreat to heal/re-group. Bursa flips again, how tiresome.
Korean Settler lands, N of Bursa.
620 AD: Re-take Bursa. Advance on PI-Ramses. A lot of units still healing.
IBT: Ottoman Mace approaches New Zimbabwe. Koreans found 'Ulsan'
630 AD: Destroy Elephantine - at last; Destroy Pi-Ramses, no losses but 4 red-lined Knights; Advance on Constantinople; protect New Zimbabwe with Knight, all I have available.
IBT: Ottoman Mace defeats Knight at New Zimbabwe, and burns it.
640 AD: Destroy Istanbul; I've had to raise the lux slider to 10%, all this whipping is making people unhappy. Found 'New Bucephalus'.
IBT: Egypt MA France against us
650 AD: Capture Iznik, Ottomans destroyed.
I'm going to hand over here; there are still moves left with most of the military. There is enough hardware in the old Ottoman lands to finish off the Russians (three cities), though some are healing.
Egypt is proving a tougher nut to crack, but I've pillaged their Iron, and 1 source of Salt; Army heading to cut off the other. We have more than enough units, once healed, to do the job.
I have 16 Settlers headed to a rally point at Anjar (the next player may wish to cancel/change it.); there is a lot of spare land to fill.
The only tech we are behind is Music Theory.
Okay, we definitely can't get gpt deals unless it's tied-in with peace, so I'm going to go for the maximum scam. If I mm the Empire sufficiently, I can gpt Egypt for Metallurgy, then trigger the MPP with an attack on Osman; make peace with Liz & Abe, giving Liz gpt for Astronomy and Banking, then DOW Abe to trigger the MPP.
That's the theory - I hope I don't screw-up.
IBT: Nada.
590 AD: Everything has gone according to plan; we now have Metallurgy, Astronomy, and Banking. We are also back at war with the Middle Easterners, and the Liz/Abe Combo.
No military action, I'm waiting for damaged units to heal. The flip risk at Bursa is huge, but It's well worth our while keeping it, so if it does, I'll just flip it back at the point of a sword.
IBT: Bursa flips.
600 AD: Capture Vladivostok; advance on Izmit; advance on Alexandria; found New Zimbabwe; re-take Bursa; connect/reconnect, upgrade 5 horses at Mecca.
IBT: Bit of Egyptian troop movements; English Carousels appearing.
610 AD: Destroy Izmit; fighting on the Egyptian border gives us another MGL; destroy Alexandria; destroy Ottoman city N of Bursa (forgot it's name); advance on Elephantine.
IBT: Bad RNG at Elephantine costs us 2 Knights, and 1 damaged; retreat to heal/re-group. Bursa flips again, how tiresome.
Korean Settler lands, N of Bursa.
620 AD: Re-take Bursa. Advance on PI-Ramses. A lot of units still healing.
IBT: Ottoman Mace approaches New Zimbabwe. Koreans found 'Ulsan'
630 AD: Destroy Elephantine - at last; Destroy Pi-Ramses, no losses but 4 red-lined Knights; Advance on Constantinople; protect New Zimbabwe with Knight, all I have available.
IBT: Ottoman Mace defeats Knight at New Zimbabwe, and burns it.
640 AD: Destroy Istanbul; I've had to raise the lux slider to 10%, all this whipping is making people unhappy. Found 'New Bucephalus'.
IBT: Egypt MA France against us
650 AD: Capture Iznik, Ottomans destroyed.
I'm going to hand over here; there are still moves left with most of the military. There is enough hardware in the old Ottoman lands to finish off the Russians (three cities), though some are healing.
Egypt is proving a tougher nut to crack, but I've pillaged their Iron, and 1 source of Salt; Army heading to cut off the other. We have more than enough units, once healed, to do the job.
I have 16 Settlers headed to a rally point at Anjar (the next player may wish to cancel/change it.); there is a lot of spare land to fill.
The only tech we are behind is Music Theory.
archphoenix
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 355
good turnset, we have a nice score and territory graph.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Almost half way to dom! 
I've got the save, and will start playing Monday night.
We've been at war for 6 turns now, so I should be able to get peace soon. I want ROP with either Cleo or Cathy so I can take them down smoothly - probably Cleo, as Cath doesn't have muskets (unless anyone knows different?) so she'll be easier anyway.
I'd like peace with the Anglophones too, because English ships are crawling all over our shores, making me nervous. But what will they charge for peace?
I'm not sure what to do about Mil Trad. We could research it in about 10 turns. When do we expect the AI to get it, and do we still have the means to scam another tech out of them? I guess with the current state of our economy we have to stick with the min research, but we'll be left in a pretty poor position if the AI decide to ignore cavs and romp off to the industrial age ...
I've got the save, and will start playing Monday night.
We've been at war for 6 turns now, so I should be able to get peace soon. I want ROP with either Cleo or Cathy so I can take them down smoothly - probably Cleo, as Cath doesn't have muskets (unless anyone knows different?) so she'll be easier anyway.
I'd like peace with the Anglophones too, because English ships are crawling all over our shores, making me nervous. But what will they charge for peace?
I'm not sure what to do about Mil Trad. We could research it in about 10 turns. When do we expect the AI to get it, and do we still have the means to scam another tech out of them? I guess with the current state of our economy we have to stick with the min research, but we'll be left in a pretty poor position if the AI decide to ignore cavs and romp off to the industrial age ...
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