SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element

[Fluroscent]

I disagree here. 2 turns to knock down the walls and on the third turn send in all the cannons. This will allow you to take out all the units (only 5 there). You should be able to take no losses. Plus there is no way to get any troops there in time unless you wait to attack. RR go all the way to Washington but it is a 5 turn trip from there. The closest unit is in Hangzhou and it is 3 turns away. And it is a single musket. Either way, you can take the city with the units that are headed there already.

I'll see the situation after knocking down the culture defense, but I am not going to attack unless sure of winning. Some of the units we have there are too damaged to guarantee wins even against cannoned defenders, and it's only four damaged cannons too, so I feel we might be better off getting more units in.

Agreed that we already have enough troops but since there are only two cities on the mainland and to get to one you have to go right past the other, the only proper stacking is one large stack to hit one on the way to the other. The only troops to be stacked separately will be the ones to put on a transport to hit his island city.

Yep, that is what I was thinking. The main point is to gather enough cannons to take out tough stacked defenders in one go.

Paris and Yarsolv need to build transports and destroyers to hit G. THe trip to G from the Moscow side is way too long.

Disagree. We have at least ten turns. The first two transports from CI will carry workers to various islands on their way around the globe. Remember transports move way quicker than galleons, and we will have the refrigeration bonus too.

Comments to build plans: Yes, pretty much what I was planning.

All the islands where we have cities have the FO already cleared at least.

I am planning to send workers to the uninhabited parts of the world, so they can begin getting rid of fallout there. Some of the islands in the middle are especially important to clear asap, since we might see Gandhi settle on them. If they are cleared of FO, we don't have to conquer them at all later.

 

[unclethrill]

Sounds like you have things well in hand. I disagree on waiting for newcastle but a couple turns either way won't make that much difference on one city.

Good Luck!!!

 

[Fluroscent]

One extensive turn managed before RL got in the way, resuming in a couple of hours.

But a very nice surprise (see screenshot)

Oh and we lost nothing taking Atlanta. RNG randomness at it's finest

 

[unclethrill]

That is a super sweet deal there!!

 

[Fluroscent]

OK TS done, and hopefully my last one! Unless we screw up that is. But don't worry, I am happy to help with the final planning as much as possible.
Not much to say and too much to say, so it is probably best for the next player to study the map carefully, lots of stuff going on. Will provide some notes on things that may not be obvious.

Some storytelling:
Obviously, by my previous post, we were fortunate enough to receive Philadelphia (his best city) in the peace deal. Now he is relegated to the icy regions with a fleet of frigates trapped in our culture and a great general he managed to spawn in The Hood

Gandhi, meanwhile has been bribed to a peaceful state. I gave Electricity when he was four turns from finishing it, and got his map+~150 gold too. He has begun settling overseas, but so far not anywhere with fallout. He is now going for Radio, probably chasing the disabled culture victory.

Dropped the Radio wonders for now, they were not needed. Doubt they are worth building at all.

Our workers are busy clearing fallout from various islands, and should be done with it soon. But we are needing some workers on our mainland to workshop over other improvements in our important cities.

Lots of cities are building research now. Our science rate has risen to about 5700/turn. But we probably want to set a lot of them to build a worker or two.

We are close to the end of the tech tree. I set a path to Fusion as a placeholder, but might be worth getting Satellites+Composites first. Novogrod is building Apollo, 8T now, but will be quicker as it gains more workshops.
Trying to squeeze out a GP from Rostov. Four turns ETA, where we will want to immediately start a golden age. Fingers crossed for no GS this time... Next GA should be possible with the remaining GS+Fusion GE+Next GP (need to MM to reduce risk of duplicate again) before the first ends, and the ship should be launched before that second one ends.

General Space Planning: Consolidate tiles in bigger cities, steal from smaller. Workshop over anything not needed, Cereal Mills can compensate for food if needed. (And mine over windmills too)
Prime cities are Novogrod, Canterbury, Shanghai, (+Rostov). These sites need full attention to reach their potential. I imagine Rostov+Canterbury build Engines, while Novogrod as the best city handle the final part (Stasis Chamber). Shanghai can be a safety buffer city, and take over other builds if lesser cities cannot handle it.
All the smaller parts should be easy to complete in various cities with some production.

More Notes:
-CM Exec en route for Atlanta - Can give up shared tiles for Washington afterwards
-CM Exec en route for Magadan (island city), to enable working all workshops. Probably good enough to build a SS part.
-MI Exec for Chicago en route
-MI Exec for former American island city is ready to do his thing next turn.
-Marines+Transports building in Moscow+CI to enable 1 turn destroying Stalin. Then invade Gandhi, shipping our main army located in Chicago.
-We have to rely on finishing up warring+cleaning FO from Gandhis lands after launch, while we await victory. No sense in playing it safe, it MUST work.
-Option: Gift Biology+Fission, then Ecology next turn and hope he clears some FO himself.
-Cities that don't already have them need factories, plants, observatories and Research Labs asap. Only a few cities are lagging behind.
-At this point, it seems pointless to turn more cities productive before we are done, so I think we might want to raze Stalin+Gandhi's cities instead.
-Transports are all over the place, bringing workers etc. around. Probably good to bring some back to ferry troops. All the ships with enough XP have gotten navigation promotions to move faster (Flanking+Nav I)

Autolog too long to post, just ask if anything needs clarifying.

 

[BLubmuz]

Yeah, nice surprise that peace deal!
I think a good work. No news from China in your report and CM is just acquired... you know

I don't think it's worth raze cities, unless really crappy. Stalingrad is worth keep and probably some G's one. The American island city can be razed.

Edit: deleted -I don't understan why we have to give G Bio + fission to be able to give him Ecol. Is not Bio enough?

Well, i think to be next, tomorrow i will look at the save and post a draft PPP possibly tomorrow night.

Indeed i hope this is your last TS this game, but your help in planning is needed.

 

[BLubmuz]

I was too curious, so i opened the save. I noticed you took all the fun with Roos.

I would have razed both Chicago and Seattle, even if i've seen them pretty well developed.

We have to clean a good number of FO, many in our core land, many, but not much in some island.

We're only some 10 turns away to complete our research, so i think i will pre-WS the towns to have them all ready at once, when we do not need more research.

G will fall quickly, he's got only a bunch of medieval and renaissance units, he does not even have rifling and he's researching Radio. He's got a source of uranium, which can be our "Omaha Beach", so no problem with nukes.

I've seen our main army in Chicago. Not so impressive, but with some reinforcements is should be enough to take G quickly. Stalin can be the last one. We also need to sink all the Indian ships, so maybe some destroyer is in order.

At this point the main constraint will be production.

I think that Satellites>Composites has priority, then the Comp>FO>Fusion, last Med>Genetics.

I'll examine again the save tomorrow, so in the meantime you can comment on the above.

 

[Fluroscent]

We have to clean a good number of FO, many in our core land, many, but not much in some island.

Good thing about the FO in our mainland is that it is easy to spam an army of workers to deal with it quickly, while islands require some more turns, so getting rid of the island FO is best to be done with, then the workers can return.

G will fall quickly, he's got only a bunch of medieval and renaissance units, he does not even have rifling and he's researching Radio. He's got a source of uranium, which can be our "Omaha Beach", so no problem with nukes.

I've seen our main army in Chicago. Not so impressive, but with some reinforcements is should be enough to take G quickly. Stalin can be the last one. We also need to sink all the Indian ships, so maybe some destroyer is in order.

There are also marines in Moscow, and a couple on a transport that razed an American settlement. Also two battleships at Moscow that can be used to kill ships/bombard. Gandhi had a huge fleet in one of his cities, and that city was completely blockable so putting the battleships there should do the trick. Use the airship to confirm.
A few destroyers to hunt down other ships can be in order.
No worry with uranium, Gandhi will not get to Rocketry which is needed for nukes, even if we gift him Fission.

I think that Satellites>Composites has priority, then the Comp>FO>Fusion, last Med>Genetics.

Agreed. Be aware that this path strongly emphasizes that we focus on our best production cities for the engines+stasis chamber. We will have plenty of time to finish all the thrusters/casings/etc, in almost any other city, but less time to finish engines, so no point in bulldozing towns everywhere. Focus workers on Novogrod/Rostov/Canterbury.

We're only some 10 turns away to complete our research, so i think i will pre-WS the towns to have them all ready at once, when we do not need more research.

Be aware that some towns in Canterbury are already preshopped, but that should show up on when hovering over them.
Also, make sure to road the forests at Novogrod, so we can chop them and maybe save a turn in the end.

 

[BLubmuz]

Be warned: a long post.

Updated page 1. Noticed Fluroscent was often mispelled. Corrected, sorry.

TS 19 PPP - turn 286 (1832 AD) to 300
next TS will be the last one.
Please note: i'm writing this to focus and remember all the things to do. Comments welcome.

Research: to Genetics in 10-11 turns. Sequence:
1) Satellites>Composites
2) Comp>FO>Fusion
3) Med>Genetics
4) MT, just for fun

I should be able to start the engines and to have almost all the other SS components ready or soon to be by turn 300 (the bottleneck is the Apollo)
I think that our best produtive city must wait the SC (Genetics) so we can build some minor component there.

Golden Ages: (fingers crossed on premise)
Let's hope to not spawn a GS in the next 4 turns. If we'll be lucky i will immediately start the 12 turns GAge.
Next GPerson should spawn from StPete. Now we have 9 turns which will be increased by next GP, but we'll have a GAge, so they will roughly still 9. I can always watch and increase the specialists if needed. Here the chances are high for a GM. We don't want a GS nor a GE.
This GP, one of the 2 GSs we currently have and the GE from Fusion will make our last GAge, to be launched during the (hopefully) next one and to be half useless.

Worst case scenario: not lucky with GPeople: what to do with the useless ones?
BTW we're making a bet on next GP, otherwise the path to Fusion would be safer GAge-wise.

Scrubbing Fallout:
This can be done until the SS arrives, but better be relaxed the last turns.
My target is to clean all (or almost) the fallout in the islands and let our continent last.
A detailed plan is a nightmare, i will try a quick compt.

North Islands:
Start from N of Moscow and moving East:
Island with horses: the worker already there must receive an help. 1-2 should suffice (see below)
Hyderabad: OK.
Island south of Hyd.: due in 4 turns
Our archer in the norh will verify the presence of fallout in that island in 5-7 turns
Stalingrad: 1 tile
Island South of it: 4 tiles
Near Seattle: 3 tiles
North of Xian: 2 tiles

South Islands:
Start from E of London and moving East:
Front of London: due in 2
East, trapped in ice: due in 6, then verify S
Small, E of Khabaro.: due in 13
Big, moving E: only 1 w for 3 tundra tiles: i think the trasport loaded with 3 workers can bring reinforcements. They will be needed also in
Small island further E: 3 tiles, which must be verified, like the above one.
Then we need to verify the island S between Lahore and Oxford.

I do not think we will discover more FO, but better be safe.

There's a transport with 2 workers near the small island between Rostov and Orenburg: 1 for tile, once finished they can sail to the horse island in 3 turns and help there. Transport will wait.
The transport near the Equator FO island will move to former America, to ferry 3 workers near Seattle. In the meantime they will scrub there.

War:
We must wait to heal and to have some warship in the area. The marines in Moscow need a transport, ready next turn.
We have a big army in Chicago, but only 2 transports there, 3 counting the one right N. I think i can build one in Philadelphia, due in 2.
So the first wave can be of 16 units: The best GP, cannons, 1 MG and a knight. I'll land the troops, so some trasport can go back to take reinforcements.
Due to the above, i think i will declare on turn 289 or 290. Once took our beachhead we can choose if move by transport or by land for the other cities.
I will decide depending on where the Indian ships will be if start from Dehli or Varanasi.
The battleships need 4-5 turns to arrive, so they can't be used in the first attack. On your head, Fluro!
I will build 5-7 Destroyers in each city capable of producing it in 2 turns, starting from the closest to India.

So, i propose to wait to have a quick war, no point in start it without enough navy and troops too faraway.
We can probably capture a good number of indian workers, but we need more to clean the FO there.
Stalin can be last, mostly for the few FO tiles in his land.

Buildings:
I will complete the current ones, continue military in Moscow and CI (mostly Marines), then Library/CH/Forge in new cities, stop Corps spreading.
Just tell me if we need some more city with CM, just to save me some time.
I will better verify the need of workers, but i already think we need more, mainly because we have a lot in former America/China area which we need for India, but a few for converting to WS and for the Novgo Area.
Thus many cities will swiched from Whealth/Research to workers/navy and our research can suffer for a couple turns. But since the accomplishment of the constaints and the production are the bottleneck at this point, we can afford some delay in reasearch. Even if i think we can more than recover with the GAge, which i'm not counting in my plan.

 

[Fluroscent]

4) MT, just for fun

Do Flight instead. It is possible it can help if we are too slow to finish war+FO clearing.

Worst case scenario: not lucky with GPeople: what to do with the useless ones?

Not much we can do. Build a couple of academies in most science rich cities and save the last for a single GA is probably best.

Our archer in the norh will verify the presence of fallout in that island in 5-7 turns

Satellites reveal world map, so we should see all remaining FO then, this goes for all verifying plans.

The battleships need 4-5 turns to arrive, so they can't be used in the first attack. On your head, Fluro!

Well I was planning to strike Stalin first.. but bring them over anyway, they can bombard culture nicely.

I will complete the current ones, continue military in Moscow and CI (mostly Marines), then Library/CH/Forge in new cities, stop Corps spreading.
Just tell me if we need some more city with CM, just to save me some time.

I have put execs on waypoints the ones I think we need. Don't think any other cities need it.

Thus many cities will swiched from Whealth/Research to workers/navy and our research can suffer for a couple turns. But since the accomplishment of the constaints and the production are the bottleneck at this point, we can afford some delay in reasearch. Even if i think we can more than recover with the GAge, which i'm not counting in my plan.

Yes. Also try to switch wealth/research building in cities so we run 100% science always and end up with close to 0 gold the turn we finish Genetics.

 

[BLubmuz]

Do Flight instead. It is possible it can help if we are too slow to finish war+FO clearing.

Good catch! I'm always thinking in my space games if flight, deapite is more expensive, can be better than Artillery, mainly when combustion is already researched. We never discussed this, so...

Not much we can do. Build a couple of academies in most science rich cities and save the last for a single GA is probably best.

Or rush a WW if we have an excess GE. Lightbulbing is totally useless

Satellites reveal world map, so we should see all remaining FO then, this goes for all verifying plans.

Well I was planning to strike Stalin first.. but bring them over anyway, they can bombard culture nicely.

I have put execs on waypoints the ones I think we need. Don't think any other cities need it.

Yes. Also try to switch wealth/research building in cities so we run 100% science always and end up with close to 0 gold the turn we finish Genetics.

Hmm... yeah, i forgot satellites

Stalin needs more marines and more navy. He's an halfway between Moscow and India, but India will take much longer, with a great logistics effort. Stalin is easy: hit the city with the TNs first with a sneak attack, then spam a worker for each tile, done.

I think that only marines can do the job. And it can be done even after Genetics. India is ways more time asking, under any aspect. So India first is a must. I will start ASAP, but when i feel to be ready.

If no more comments i'll play tomorrow. I guess i will need a lot of time and to be concentrated.

 

[unclethrill]

Looks good to me. Remember we must completely kill Stalin.

 

[beestar]

Hey guys, had a look at the game. Looks like things are almost done!

For the (expected) Golden Age, are we going to revolt to build the parts faster? Bureaucracy would get us more hammers in the capital, while Free Speech doesn't do much for us. (Edit: also Universal Suffrage for rush-buying workers, and increasing hammer output of towns before they get workshopped over) If we're still in the Golden Age, we could revolt to Serfdom after launch when we no longer need the Caste workshop hammers.

Looking at Gandhi's lands, it looks like we can bypass Madras and leave it unconquered.

Our science rate is looking strong, while the limiting factors are spaceship parts build, fallout cleanup, and war - agree with building Workers (and Marines) instead of entirely Research and Wealth.

On the other hand, if we have enough money, is it worth upgrading some of our Chicago Cannons to Artillery for the Indian assault? If we're transport-constrained, it would be better to have a few really strong units. Could speed up the war.

 

[beestar]

P.S. Consider workshopping/mining over food and luxury resources in the production cities ... soon we don't have science needs any more, and we can just run the cultural slider for happiness.

 

[Fluroscent]

I don't think we can afford to skimp too much on the science rate. We need to get the tech done asap so we can start the last part. That, along with setting up our best production cities is the limiting factor.
So I don't think civic switches are good before we finish Genetics. After that, Serfdom is a great idea to speed up FO cleaning. US to emergency rush buy (not needed for workers, they are 1T in any city with mining by now) and Bureau if it can help at all.

On the other hand, if we have enough money, is it worth upgrading some of our Chicago Cannons to Artillery for the Indian assault? If we're transport-constrained, it would be better to have a few really strong units. Could speed up the war.

I wouldn't risk delaying the final tech to speed up conquest. Gandhi can be dealt with by the troops we have+incoming marines easily. He doesn't even have rifling. And he is so close by sea that it does not matter that we cannot move our entire army at once.

 

[BLubmuz]

The thought of upgrading some cannon passed in my head too.
But we can finish to upgrade some unit we eill use once or twice.

Don't be duped by the save as it is. Now i'll start producing navy and workers, the science and the gold will drop. We need some reserve.

And our cannons are an indecent number and we don't have to counter protective defenders.

Playing now. Probably i'll do it in 2 sessions. I think it will take long. Charge!!!

 

[BLubmuz]

OK, played 4 turns, to see the GPerson from Rostov.

It's 1840, turn 290 and we're researching Computer in 1 turn.

Imhotep (GE) has been born in Rostov. When i'll start next session i'll start the GAge.

I was forced to start the war with G 1 turn sooner than i would, 'cause he landed a 2WE+settler party in the only non-FO tile on the Equator island, where i has 4 workers scrubbing. Luckily the transport with 2 marines, which was near Stalin's lands was there, so now there's 1 more worker scrubbing

The fleet in Dehli was far more bigger then the one in the Uranium city, so i started there. Blocked with 2 stacked destroyers, lost one of our best cannons, despite i used the airship. Then it was a parkwalk.

There's an annoying mace near Yaro, which was near beijing (teleported there when i declared), so i built an infantry to deal with it.

Satellites revealed no new fallouted tiles, but one in the island in front of London. Our worker is already there.

I deleted the archer wandering in the ice.

Tomorrow.

 

[BLubmuz]

It's now turn 292, we're researching any tech in 1 turn, >7Kbpt.
I decided to chop the Apollo, so it's now ready. I will keep the most productive cities for the Engines and for the Stasis and start immediately to build the other parts everywhere i can have them ready on time.

Next GP will come from StPete in 4 turns, which i keep with a ton of merchants building whealth.

Lost a Marine to a musket @91% . The Indian war is going well, aside this, only this casualty and the cannon i mentioned yesterday. The problem is logistics.

I'm playing slowly, with many pauses to attend to RL duties. This will be a strange end of the year, since a friend of my wife needs assistance after a big surgery.

EDIT
I've now assigned all the parts we can build. 6 turns to have them all. Rostov is buiding the Docking Bay in 5 t., to be ready for the Stasis.
Fusion is now in 2, since many cities were buiding research and now SS parts. The engines will go in Shangai, Canterbury or Novgorod.
I' build R&R somewhere, we have some problem of happiness.

edit2: assigned all the cities to research but StPete and the ones building parts. Fusion in 1. Need to set whealth again next turn.

 

[beestar]

Sounds great - it sounds like we're about 20 turns from finishing?

What's the long pole in the tent: teching+SS parts? Fallout scrubbing? War with Stalin?

 

[BLubmuz]

Sounds great - it sounds like we're about 20 turns from finishing?

What's the long pole in the tent: teching+SS parts? Fallout scrubbing? War with Stalin?

Turn 293: both Engines will be done in 7, no need to destroy more towns. Now i moved the Docking bay to Canterbury, due in 6, to free Rostov for the Stasis C. I workshopped even the pigs there! (we have enough of them for health)
Assuming 7 turns to launch and 10 to arrive, we're plenty of time to destroy Stalin and clean the few FO there.
Many of the trasports used for the Indian war will move workers there, every tile is roaded, so no turns lost. I'll capture many workers and there're many settlers, too.

Any port is blocked by our powerful Navy, so they can't escape.

In any case, Flight after the SS techs will let us build some airport and to airlift some worker if needed.

The Mace was wiped, so our workers can attend to their jobs without worries.

I think i'll play until 1 turn to complete the last part, which should be 299. Unless you want me to wipe Stalin. In any case i'll stop there to report and discuss.