SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

Havr, nice to see you around

If you wanna play you're more than welcome. I agree with Fluro, there're many things to do, but not much to cause an headache.

If you post a draft PPP then we'll help you to refine it.

 

[havr]

Havr, nice to see you around

If you wanna play you're more than welcome. I agree with Fluro, there're many things to do, but not much to cause an headache.

If you post a draft PPP then we'll help you to refine it.

OK, I will try to work out a draft PPP tonight (working now).
Without a test game it will be hard to figure out all future progress, so I guess it will be generally high-level.

Regarding the iceball issue:
I think we might as well build one. It will be useful in the future: some will accept it, or conquer it or something like that. Better have that option ready. Who knows maybe dG will accept it for peace... but even if he doesn't it will be useful in the future.

 

[havr]

Here is an initial draft. Probably will need some serious revision. Feel free to revise it and post a new one while I am sleeping. No need to write comments and let me revise it only tomorrow night (early morning for most people or afternoon for others).

Research: Beeline Music.

Worker builds

Let worksers finish their current task.
Worker 4 builds road.
Is later joined by one of Moscow workers and new axe to build road to orleans along the numbers.

One StP worker goes to build road a hill. Is later joined by other Ivory workers to build a mine. Don't know what to do after that except scrubbing some land.
Secnond StP worker build mine on PH E of StP (???)

Any suggestions what to do with other worker and turns except scrubing some fallout?



Cities

Moscow
Finish Monastary -> Temple -> Stable-> Chariot (5XP now for MEDIC) -> Phants
steal fish from CI
@ Size 7 fire scientist and work cottage
@ size 8, work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more happiness.

StP
Axe -> Catapults
We need the axe for worker defence while building invasion road.

CI

Finish Granary -> Barracks -> Cats


Diplomacy
Open for trade except HBR, CS (?) and CoL (?).
No peace with Stalin and France.

 

[Fluroscent]

OK, I can comment on the draft plan. I don't think there are many issues of disagreement right now. My comments in red

Research: Beeline Music.

Worker builds

Let worksers finish their current task.
Worker 4 builds road.
Is later joined by one of Moscow workers and new axe to build road to orleans along the numbers.

One StP worker goes to build road a hill. Is later joined by other Ivory workers to build a mine. Don't know what to do after that except scrubbing some land. Mine the other hill too
Secnond StP worker build mine on PH E of StP (???) yes, do that

Any suggestions what to do with other worker and turns except scrubing some fallout?

Suggestions:
-Chop forests. Make sure that Moscow gets the chop hammers from the shared forest tile ("activate" it in the Moscow city screen).
-Cottage grass tiles at Moscow, particularly the riverside one (will want it done asap, since Moscow hits size 8 soon)
-Begin a road north to the marble/silver site
-If there are more turns left, scrubbing is fine. CI can use scrubbing for health.

Cities

Moscow
Finish Monastary -> Temple -> Stable-> Chariot (5XP now for MEDIC) -> Phants
steal fish from CI
@ Size 7 fire scientist and work cottage
@ size 8, work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more happiness.
I would consider a scouting workboat just after monastary, so we can get a visual on the other AI, hopefully Gandhi so we can get trade routes going.
Also, IF we spot a DeGaulle stack approaching, delay the chariot medic and start on the phants instead. Also in that case, chop all the forests asap.

StP
Axe -> Catapults
We need the axe for worker defence while building invasion road. Agree, we can use the one in CI instead of waiting for this one to be built though. This one can go to CI instead.

CI

Finish Granary -> Barracks -> Cats
Remember to take back the fish once Moscow is size 8

Diplomacy
Open for trade except HBR, CS (?) and CoL (?). I would not trade anything yet, since nothing is immediately useful. An aesthetics<->sailing+mono trade is something we might want, but we also don't want Gandhi competing for GLib and Music, so I think we should wait.
No peace with Stalin and France.

Scouting:
-The missionary can go NW. It is not clear whether it is a dead end, or a path to more AI. If a dead end, it can return to scout the rest of the NE.
-The chariot should go scout south, I think the SE with the bananas is worth taking a look at, and then west to find the other AI.

 

[BLubmuz]

I agree (i think) with all the suggestions Fluro posted.

I see another benefit in beelining Music: we can use it to have Theology in trade from G. (i can bet he's researching it).
Start roading north is another good point.
With marble it's worth building MoM, to increase the GAges lenght. We need many to build our SS.

 

[beestar]

The plan outlined above seems fine to me. Some comments:

On diplo:

BLubmuz, I doubt Gandhi will trade Theology since it will be a monopoly tech once he gets it. Will have to wait until we're Friendly with him.

Note that Roosevelt will agree to Open Borders at Annoyed. Should we gift him tech to get out of Worst Enemy, and then open borders with him to start him along the path to friendship? Alphabet and Meditation might do it. Ideally I'd like to hang on to CoL and Currency.

For trading with us, Gandhi is acquiring 'you traded with our worst enemy' demerits from the other AIs. They'll get friendlier to Gandhi as his religion diffuses to them.

Proposed tech path to throw darts at

I'd like to propose a straw man tech path for the next few centuries (havr, please don't let this hold up your play - this is a parallel discussion)

• Phase 1 (well defined)
• Aesthetics
• Literature (Nat Epic, H Epic, GLib)
• Music (artist, safe to trade way)
• should be able to pick up Sailing, Monotheism, Monarchy in trade
• Philosophy (must bulb before teching Paper!)
• Paper
• Education (bulb as possible)
  
  
  Phase 2: warring for techs
• Gunpowder
• pick up Calendar in trade (for MoM and silk plantation). Should be able to get MC and Feudalism
• beat up on CDG or Churchill for Nationalism
• Liberalism -> MilTrad
• go on a cuirassier war ... Engineering for trebs is a lot of techs, so maybe spies instead? Musketmen support?
• conquer for Constitution
• backfill the machinery/optics/engineering path
  
  Phase 3: bulb to corps
• Chemistry
• Steel (ironworks, start getting a GE)
• backfill the guilds/banking/econ path
• Astro (part-bulb)
• Sci Meth (part-bulb)
• Physics for GS (bulb)
• Biology
• Medicine for Sid's Sushi (must start saving up a GM for this)
• backfill Printing Press / Replaceable parts / Steam Power
• Railroad (Mining Inc.)
  
  
  Phase 4: up in the air ...

 

[unclethrill]

Here is an initial draft. Probably will need some serious revision. Feel free to revise it and post a new one while I am sleeping. No need to write comments and let me revise it only tomorrow night (early morning for most people or afternoon for others).

Research: Beeline Music. Aesthetics, Lit, Music and be sure to use 100% until money runs out then one turn of 0% and back to 100%

Worker builds

Let workers finish their current task.
Worker 4 builds road.
Is later joined by one of Moscow workers and new axe to build road to orleans along the numbers.
I agree with worker 4 and bringing another worker over as soon as it is done with it's current build. I disagree withthe axe for protection unless we plan to use a mixed stack to attack. If we are rolling straight phants and cats then just wait for the first phant to be out and there for protection. If a roving band of Frenchies comes along just remember that we can use our roads so the unescorted workers will be able to run faster than the attackers as long as you see them coming (which you should).

One StP worker goes to build road a hill. Is later joined by other Ivory workers to build a mine. Don't know what to do after that except scrubbing some land.
Secnond StP worker build mine on PH E of StP (???) Send 1 StP worker to help road. Send other to the hill west of StP. Have him joined by the two workers from Moscow to mine the hill.

Any suggestions what to do with other worker and turns except scrubing some fallout?

The forest SSW of moscow can be chopped and cottaged. Bring the 2 CI workers to the hill SS of CI and road, CF and mine. Then do the same on the hill to the W (SSW of CI).

Cities

Moscow
Finish Monastary -> Temple -> Stable-> Chariot (5XP now for MEDIC) -> Phants
steal fish from CI
@ Size 7 fire scientist and work cottage
@ size 8, work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more happiness.

StP
Axe -> Catapults
We need the axe for worker defence while building invasion road.

CI

Finish Granary -> Barracks -> Cats


Diplomacy
Open for trade except HBR, CS (?) and CoL (?).
No peace with Stalin and France.

I don't think you should trade anything during your TS.

Looks good to me (along with my comments )

 

[unclethrill]

[*]go on a cuirassier war ... Engineering for trebs is a lot of techs, so maybe spies instead? Musketmen support?

This is an important part here. This game will be won on full out aggression. We need to get cities that are established so that they can be used immediately to be productive but not to produce SS parts but to support the workers for clearing fallout. Like I said earlier, the long pole in this game will not be building the SS but getting the FO cleared.

 

[Fluroscent]

I doubt we will be able to extort valuable techs by war. The inherent war failure from the warriors suicided will make it very hard. The AI are most stingy on techs, even if facing annihilation. Extorting something is obvious, since we are forced to not wipe them out. But I doubt we can get nationalism/constitution.

On MoM:
I prefer to capture it. Since we are not going to get it for our first GA, and the Taj is unlikely, then it will do nothing until very late game when we stack golden ages for the final push. The AI like to build it, so we should be able to plan to capture it in time.

On bulbs:
I think we should be careful about popping too many GP. If we do, we might have trouble getting a GE for mining inc. later. I think we could try to build the NEpic somewhere in time for the first golden age, and use that GA to run caste/pacifism and pop a GS to finish edu. We might well consider to settle our next GP too, if we think bulbing will not make Oxford come faster.
If we manage our economy well, we can rely on a great tech rate so the relative value of bulbs goes down. This will also make it easier to get a bunch of GP for late game golden ages.

On corps:
I find Mining Inc. to be critical to get asap for these games, while Sushi can wait longer. If we do decide on a corporation strategy, then we really need to plan how to get there quick, and that includes popping a GE and finishing Wall Street.
Another thing that speaks for this is that if we go for cottages, then the usual benefit of early biology is not there. We are unlikely to find a good NPark site, and if we run cottages, then we will not have a lot of farms.
On the other hand, if we run a cottage based economy, then we need the hammers to have all our old cottage cities get their improvements. And our newly captured cities to get their setup with CH/forge/factory for wealth building asap. (Need to work out a sort of stop cottage point too - where we switch to industrial improvements for unimproved tiles).

 

[Fluroscent]

Quick note on binary research (for havr):
unclethrill mentions it. But I'd add that we should run the next turn at 0%, since we are finishing the monastary. That way we can make, well, ~5 beakers.. Not much but still worth the trouble

Send other to the hill west of StP. Have him joined by the two workers from Moscow to mine the hill.

I think you mean east of StP. And I disagree that we need more than one worker on it, since StP does not grow to size 6 quickly. Remember, we use extra worker turns whenever workers move onto unroaded tiles. If we can, on tiles we do want more workers on, we should try to get a road done first, so the other workers can move onto the tile and not waste turns.

And regarding the protective axe, it is not a waste, since we want a couple for stack defense against spears. Thing is, neither phants nor cats get defensive bonuses, so attacking spearmen will get decent odds against our stack unless we have an axe defender. The AI will not be afraid to attack our stack with unfavourable odds if it has numbers. We do not want our phants to fight 60-70% battles on defense, since we will lose on attrition then. Also, axes are cheaper to leave behind in captured cities that need protection than phants once we crack a hole in the French defense.
Final reason: There might be a lone french archer on the path. An axe can dispatch it. We do need to build the road, and only a real stack should force us to retreat the worker(s).

Tying up units for defensive protection of captured cities is a necessity. Those cities that are safe can be left unguarded until the war is over, and we probably want to avoid building cheaper MPs until we have a HEpic city that can spam some archers.

 

[BLubmuz]

I wait to comment on Beestar mid-term plan.

I agree with Fluro that some axe is needed to protect the stack and to MP in conquered cities.
Axes are the strongest defensive units if there're no chariots. And a stack with phants does not fear chariots, in any case.

 

[unclethrill]

Quick note on binary research (for havr):
unclethrill mentions it. But I'd add that we should run the next turn at 0%, since we are finishing the monastary. That way we can make, well, ~5 beakers.. Not much but still worth the trouble


I think you mean east of StP. And I disagree that we need more than one worker on it, since StP does not grow to size 6 quickly. Remember, we use extra worker turns whenever workers move onto unroaded tiles. If we can, on tiles we do want more workers on, we should try to get a road done first, so the other workers can move onto the tile and not waste turns.

And regarding the protective axe, it is not a waste, since we want a couple for stack defense against spears. Thing is, neither phants nor cats get defensive bonuses, so attacking spearmen will get decent odds against our stack unless we have an axe defender. The AI will not be afraid to attack our stack with unfavourable odds if it has numbers. We do not want our phants to fight 60-70% battles on defense, since we will lose on attrition then. Also, axes are cheaper to leave behind in captured cities that need protection than phants once we crack a hole in the French defense.
Final reason: There might be a lone french archer on the path. An axe can dispatch it. We do need to build the road, and only a real stack should force us to retreat the worker(s).

Tying up units for defensive protection of captured cities is a necessity. Those cities that are safe can be left unguarded until the war is over, and we probably want to avoid building cheaper MPs until we have a HEpic city that can spam some archers.

Yes I did mean W. I agree that we can use only on worker on the hill. I'm a victim of 'lets just get it done'-itis. The other two workers will be better use as you said.
As far as the axe goes, all I was saying was that if we only wanted phants then there was no need to build one axe. I agree that a slightly mixed stack is definitely the way to go.

 

[Fluroscent]

I agree that we can use only on worker on the hill. I'm a victim of 'lets just get it done'-itis.

I often do this too, but in this particular game format we have the luxury of not being at the mercy of our own patience So naturally we should try to do what is best, even if it means being really really particular about the details

 

[havr]

OK, here it is.
I hope I got the workers right, got confused with what I wrote myself and with what other wrote

Anyway, if you have comments instead of just posting them, please just post a proposed new PPP. This can be faster. I don't have time to revise the PPP during the workday, so unless I am ready to play tomorrow night the TS will be delayed another day... (I have limited time).

Research: First turn at 0% for monastry.
Aesthetics, Lit, Music and be sure to use 100% until money runs out then one turn of 0% and back to 100%.

Worker builds

Let worksers finish their current task.

Worker 4 builds the road to Orleans via the numbers (for reference I will call it "war-road project").
One of the workers near StP joins the war-road project.
Second worker near StP builds mine on PH E of StP and then mines other hill.

Two workers near moscow chop forest SSW of moscow and cottage it.
Then continues to Chop forest (maybe only pre-chop... not too canabalize a resource that can be useful in emergencies?)
Second Moscow workers chops forest SSW of moscow and cottages.

CI Workers: after scrub build camp. Then scrub tile to immediate N, and finally start building a road to Marble.

Troop deployment:
CI Axe (Axeman 1) defends the workers building the war-road project.

Cities

Moscow
Finish Monastary -> WB -> Temple -> Stable-> Chariot (5XP now for MEDIC) -> Phants
steal fish from CI
@ Size 7 fire scientist and work cottage
@ size 8, work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more

happiness.
IF we spot a DeGaulle stack approaching, delay the chariot medic and start on the phants instead. Also in that case, chop all the forests asap.


StP
Just Catapults
See comment on CI.

CI

Granary -> Barracks -> Axe (defense) ->Cats
Remember to take back the fish once Moscow is size 8


The main issue with this queue is that it takes very long to get the axe: 3 (Granary) + 9 (Barracks) + 6 (axe) = 18 turns.
There is a good chance we will grow to size 6 and there will be unrest in CI.
We can build axe before barracks, but that axe wil not be very effective.
There is also a chance (small though) that dG will cunningly attack CI via the sea. He can get troops via sea very fast (Paris is costal).


Diplomacy
No trades planned.
No peace with Stalin and France.

DEATH TO STALIN THE DESPICABLE!

 

[beestar]

Guys, one decision that needs to be made now: do we go for the Confucian shrine? If we fire our scientist immediately, work a Priest specialist after building the temple, and add our Oracle GPro points, then we have a good shot at spawning a Great Prophet. This will earn us 3 gpt now, and more for the rest of the game.

PRO

• gpt valuable for the rest of the game, and helps us drive a higher slider. Especially nice in the future where we expect to have lots of cities, maybe all running Confu
• If we adopt Confucianism (for OR, Theocracy, happiness, etc.) this will help us auto-spread it.
• Good synergy with Wall Street / corp HQ in St. Pete
• We don't need the GS bulb for Philo immediately, and can easily generate one later
• If we adopt a different religion for diplo reasons, we still reap the gold from the shrine

CON

• Slows down teching
• Less immediate payoff
• Less useful if we adopt a different religion for diplo reasons (e.g. joining Gandhi).
• If auto-spread doesn't work, may need to invest in building missionaries to take full advantage.
• No plans to go for a religious / priest economy, especially since there's no AP.

It's hard for me to say whether it's worth it. I do see some advantages in higher slider in the short term, and in the long run with a big empire it could be juicy, but it's not an obvious win. Joining Gandhi's religion, making him our lifelong friend, and spreading his religion to selected cities for Pacifism / OR may be better. What do you guys think?


P.S. Havr, don't worry about the 'road signs', I put them there a long time ago relatively randomly . If you have other road options that might help later city placement, or you can preferentially move onto hill tiles (since we'll lose the movement anyway), go for it.

 

[unclethrill]

OK, here it is.
I hope I got the workers right, got confused with what I wrote myself and with what other wrote

Anyway, if you have comments instead of just posting them, please just post a proposed new PPP. This can be faster. I don't have time to revise the PPP during the workday, so unless I am ready to play tomorrow night the TS will be delayed another day... (I have limited time).

Research: First turn at 0% for monastry.
Aesthetics, Lit, Music and be sure to use 100% until money runs out then one turn of 0% and back to 100%.

Worker builds

Let worksers finish their current task.

Worker 4 builds the road to Orleans via the numbers (for reference I will call it "war-road project").
One of the workers near StP joins the war-road project.
Second worker near StP builds mine on PH E of StP and then mines other hill.

Two workers near moscow chop forest SSW of moscow and cottage it.
Then continues to Chop forest (maybe only pre-chop... not too canabalize a resource that can be useful in emergencies?)
Second Moscow workers chops forest SSW of moscow and cottages.

CI Workers: after scrub build camp. Road hill SS of CI (this allows for roaded travel for units from CIThen scrub tile to immediate N, and finally start building a road to Marble.

Troop deployment:
CI Axe (Axeman 1) defends the workers building the war-road project.

Cities

Moscow
Finish Monastary -> WB -> Temple -> Stable-> Chariot (5XP now for MEDIC) -> Phants
steal fish from CI
@ Size 7 fire scientist and work cottage
@ size 8, work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more

happiness.
IF we spot a DeGaulle stack approaching, delay the chariot medic and start on the phants instead. Also in that case, chop all the forests asap.


StP
Just Catapults
See comment on CI.

CI

Granary -> Barracks -> Axe (defense) ->Cats
Remember to take back the fish once Moscow is size 8


The main issue with this queue is that it takes very long to get the axe: 3 (Granary) + 9 (Barracks) + 6 (axe) = 18 turns.
There is a good chance we will grow to size 6 and there will be unrest in CI.
We can build axe before barracks, but that axe wil not be very effective.
There is also a chance (small though) that dG will cunningly attack CI via the sea. He can get troops via sea very fast (Paris is costal).


Diplomacy
No trades planned.
No peace with Stalin and France.

DEATH TO STALIN THE DESPICABLE!

It is too early in the game for DeG to attack via sea. CI shouldn't need any defender for a while. It will need an MP for happiness though. An Axe built in Moscow can be moved over there and built in 2 turns.

 

[Fluroscent]

OK, I'll update the PPP. I'll just state what I think needs changing first.

-Worker moves can be better. Most important is that we need to clear and mine the two hills at CI too. There is one thing that makes no sense.

Second worker near StP builds mine on PH E of StP and then mines other hill.

There is no other unmined hill at StP.
We also can save turns by roading some tiles before moving multiple workers there. I'll add some detail to the plan.
And the scrubbing of useless tiles seems to have been reintroduced. The CI workers definitely need a different MO.

-The part in red is important. TBH, since we will need a dedicated MP there (cannot join war), we should probably build the cheapest unit available. That would be a chariot. And we don't need it upgraded, so we could just build it before barracks in CI. I'll add that.

-There is no chance DeGaulle will attack by sea. The AI never attacks non-coastal cities by sea if there is a land route.

-I'll add something about city micromanagement for StP and CI like there is for Moscow already. And update the Moscow one to be more precise.

-I'll add my previous suggestions on scouting.

-We do not want to delay chopping for emergencies, the chops are mainly going towards an army, so any emergencies are preempted that way.

-I'll bold the parts that are new.

Updated PPP:

Research: First turn at 0% for monastry.
Aesthetics, Lit, Music and be sure to use 100% until money runs out then one turn of 0% and back to 100%.

Worker builds

Let worksers finish their current task.

Worker 4 builds the road to Orleans via the numbers (for reference I will call it "war-road project").
One worker at StP roads the riverside forest (SSW of Moscow), then roads the farm 1W (for troop movement), then joins the war-road project.
Second worker near StP builds mine on Grass hill E of StP. Then chops the forest 1N.

Two workers near moscow mine the iron, then chop forest SSW of Moscow and cottage it. Remember to highlight the tile in Moscow's city screen!.
Then one of them chops forest 1S of Moscow, the other chops most western forest

CI Workers: after scrub build camp.
After camp, split the workers one on each grass hill. Road both hills, then join forces to scrub+mine one of them.
With one mine complete, have one worker start the road north, the other scrub+mine the other hill.

Troop deployment:
CI Axe (Axeman 1) defends the workers building the war-road project.

Cities

Moscow
Finish Monastary -> WB -> Temple -> Stable-> Chariot (5XP now for MEDIC) -> Phants
steal fish from CI, by firing the scientist
@ Size 7 work cottage
@ size 8, work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more happiness.

IF we spot a DeGaulle stack approaching, delay the chariot medic and start on the phants instead. Also in that case, chop all the forests asap. In this scenario, if there is uncertainty in any way, stop playing and consult.


StP
Just Catapults
@size 5, work the silk!
@size 6, stop working silk, and work rice farm, grass farm, and all mined tiles.


CI
Granary -> Chariot (MP) -> Barracks -> Axe (stack defense) ->Cats
Immediately switch from fish to lake
Remember to take back the fish once Moscow is size 8 (instead of lake)
Work ivory when camp is done (fire merchant)
@size 5, work grass mine too
@size 6, work other grass mine too.

Diplomacy
No trades planned.
No peace with Stalin and France.

Scouting
The missionary goes NW. It is not clear whether it is a dead end, or a path to more AI. If a dead end, it can return to scout the rest of the NE.
The chariot goes south, then it moves west to discover the other AIs.
Workboat moves NE to check out the islands. If there is no sign of a bigger landmass, then turn back to follow the southern coastline.

DEATH TO STALIN THE DESPICABLE!

 

[BLubmuz]

Good job on refining the PPP, Fluro! I think Havr can go with this for his 15 or so turns.

Beestar's question about the Shrine needs an answer.
Beforehand, we can't be sure about the kind of GPerson we'll pop from Moscow, since we have run a sci for some turn. But there're reasonable chances it will be a GPro if we stop to run Sci and start run priest.

At this stage of the game a GPro/Shrine won't help much. A GS will do. Bulbs are great in the early game, say after Astro GPeople, even GSs are better used for GAges, mainly if we own the MoM.

If we manage to have a big empire also the SoL would be great, mainly if we have a spare GE (assuming we save the first for Mining Inc.).
While preparing the war, or at the early stages, can we put a settler on queue to grab the marble?

 

[Fluroscent]

Beestar's question about the Shrine needs an answer.

I think we should not run a GP in Moscow over a useful tile improvement (like cottage). If we later pop a GP, it will be something we cannot control, so we should just use what we get for the greatest effect. But no reason to push for either a GS or GPro in my opinion. Moscow can grow and work useful tiles up to size 11, where after we can choose between coast and specialists. But I think the value of growing our bureaucracy cottages trumps anything we can accomplish running specialists.

While preparing the war, or at the early stages, can we put a settler on queue to grab the marble?

I've been considering when to build the settler. I think we probably need to put out ~8 phants before we can afford to break unit production for a settler. We will probably be in a better position to evaluate this at the end of next set though.

 

[unclethrill]

If we manage to have a big empire also the SoL would be great, mainly if we have a spare GE (assuming we save the first for Mining Inc.).
While preparing the war, or at the early stages, can we put a settler on queue to grab the marble?

I disagree on settling the Marble N of CI next. We need to settle the Southern City that is mark on the map first. This will slow the AI from settling between where we are now and our newly acquired french cities. Getting the marble will be nice but that site is not in any danger of an AI settling it any time soon. The southern city is in danger of DeG or someone else settling to the south and cutting our land in half.