SGOTM 12 - klarius

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Hi Guys,

Have played, and we are still alive.

Here is save here.

Turn 1 2150BC
Built embassy in Japan (Panic at how to save pic of screen)
moved 3 workers to cut jungle
rem worker to road and mine existing spot.

Trade Myst to Spain 14g

Turn 2 2110BC
Nada

Turn 3 2070BC
sword => sword
southern curragh finds land heading west, unoccupied

Turn 4 2030BC
Nada

Turn 5 1990BC
India and Japan disc Poly
Trade Rome writing for HBR+4g
Sum HBR for 7g
Germ Myst 2g
Zulu Myst 2g
Met Mongols north east of Aztecs
Trade Mongols Myst for 21g
sword => wealth

IBT got philo
Trade Japan Philo+55g for Poly
India Philo for 45g
Take Monarchy as free tech
change to Lit 13 turns
wealth => Mauseleum (prebuild for SOZ)

Turn 6 1950BC
Meet Hittite SW Mongols
They have Math
Trade Poly for MAth+4g
Mauseleum=>SOZ can build in 11 turns (9*18 + 2*19)

IBT
Iroqouis curragh sails past southern curragh before it sinks just off land (poss Iroquois) they have nothing new and are short of Math, Phil and Poly.

Turn 7 1910BC
Nada

Turn 8 1870BC
concerned that most still have not got writing trade to
Port + Maya + Mong + Kor + Spain + Sumer for total of 30g
Meet England (Hurrah) north of Spain, nothing new trade writ for 3g
Meet Persia SW of Hittites nothing new

IBT lost curragh by Eng

Turn 9 1830BC
Nada

Turn 10 1790BC
move worker from gsland to mine plains cow
3 workers to road previous jungle.

IBT Nada

1750BC saved

Hittites have just got MM but they want Monarchy for it.
about half way to SOZ will be able to use mined plains cow to move to 19spt needed for last couple of turns
Most of civs still don't have Maths and no-one else building SOZ at mo.
Do civs stick with Wonders they are building until that one is built or do they change willy nilly??
Have not been able to entice Japan into war with Aztecs at mo.
Japan are currently building wonders in both their cities! Is it poss to use this disregard of military to sucker punch them first poss before they get Samurai and GA???

Hope I did ok at least I've lost my SGOTM cherry now!!

 

[klarius]

Ok, doesn't look bad for a newbie .
We should now build SoZ full steam. We can MM it to 5 turns. We lose a bit research, but that's not so important right now, with all the people we know so slow on research.

Hittites have map making. We can get it for monarchy, but we can also wait a few turns, as we cannot build harbor or dromons now anyway. But really, we have to distribute more techs. These "so called" deity AI we know are terrible slow in research. I wonder if they are already choking on unit support and we should even start more phony wars, so they can kill off a few of their units.

Mighty Dwaarf, you cannot get anybody to war w/o being at war with the target yourself. So we have to declare first and we should still do the alliance thing. But indeed it's the question whom to attack first Aztecs or Japan. Anyway the other is then next , so it doesn't matter that much. But don't give math currently to Aztecs or Japan. They have ivory and at least Japan has hooked it.
And for sure we will kill Japan before they get Samurai. But currently they don't even have iron (can be seen on the screenshot form the capital - thanks), so that doesn't look like much of a problem.

A general remark about SG etiquette . Usually you should post a "I got it" before playing (yeah you posted, but it wasn't quite clear to me, if you're now playing or waiting for more discussion).

You should play out your last turn. That means move all units and save immediately before you get to the "return for next turn", unless you have a special reason to let the movement to the next player (as you are unsure were he wants to attack).

Well let's look for the roster:

klarius on deck
TedBentley
Wotan
Mighty just played
Ronald up

Northern Pike currently unavailable.

 

[Wotan]

Well played! I must admit my fears were totally unfounded.

 

[Ronald]

I got the save and will post ideas later today. Planning to play my turns on sunday (no time tomorrow)

 

[Ronald]

There are my ideas.

Finish SoZ and build some more curraghs (we are currently down to one). to continue exploration.
I will trade for MM as soon as it is cheaper, don't want to use monarchy for that.
Spread mathematics as soon as we have SoZ to enourage AIs to research construction and currency.
Spread literature to everybody as soon as we researched it to increase AI research power.
During one of these trading rounds get Japan into war with Aztecs.

Anything else you can think of?

 

[klarius]

Sounds good. I would probably buy MM latest when SoZ finishes, no matter if we have to give away monarchy.
But that would mean no further curraghs . And dromons carry the risk of a premature GA.

 

[Wotan]

well, the things you mention sounds OK. Would be nice if we could get tha AI's to crank up the research but i guess that requires them to start taking bits and pieces off each other with the "no settlers" thing to get more resources to play. with. OTOH war would cost them some thrust but in the long run should be wetter if someone would grow and help us with research? Maybe we should think about gifting a helper by giving them cities? Someone we could pick as our future opponent in the UN elections?

 

[Ronald]

Turn 0 (1750 BC): move workers to mine cow,

Interturn: Aztecs demand philo, I decline, they declare war, that's nice

Turn 1 (1725 BC): make contact with Egypt, sell writing for 37g; Japan wants monarchy for war with Aztecs. I will wait a little.

Interturn: nothing

Turn 2 (1700 BC): nothing

Interturn: nothing

Turn 3 (1675 BC): nothing

Interturn: nothing

Turn 4 (1650 BC): India researched CoL, trade col for maths + 11gpt; trade CoL + philo for MM +4g with Hittites; trade MM for 9gpt + 17g with India; get alliance with Japan against Aztecs for Maths, CoL and MM

Spread maths and philo to all civs for all their money

Interturn: nothing

Turn 5 (1625 BC): Finish SoZ, start dromon

Interturn: Rome demands CoL, decline, they declare war

Turn 6 (1600 BC): nothing

Interturn: nothing

Turn 7 (1575 BC): build dromon

Interturn: nothing

Turn 8 (1550 BC): research literature, start currency, make contact with the Dutch (they have all techs except monarchyand literature); make contact with Babylonians, trade philo for 42g, gift maths; Finish dromon, switch build to library; spread lit to everybody

Interturn: war is progressing between Japan and Aztecs; Japan builds MoM

Turn 9 (1525 BC): build library, start dromon

Interturn: nothing

Turn 10 (1500 BC): contact with China

@ klarius: Please turn back science to 100%, I forgot to do so (it's now at 90%).
The next ten turns will be more exciting than these ones. I would start the war with the Aztecs with a direct assault of their capital with about 6-8 units.
Most of their troops will be in Japanese territory, so Tenochtitlan should fall easily. I expect them to take Osaka rather soon and since they wip like mad, either Osaka or Teotihuacan could be at size 1. Maybe we can get it in a peace treaty.
I would also expect that we will trade ourselves into the middle ages during the next 10 turns. With all the scientific civs around, we should get all the starting techs without any problem.
We have to be careful with Rome to not get a premature GA. They probably will talk in one of the next turns, so we could make peace with them.

@ Wotan: After conquering the Atztecs abd the Japanese, I agree we should think how to increase the tech rate of the AIs. Help some in wars and gift cities to increase the size of the good researchers is a nice strategy

Roster:

klarius up
TedBentley on deck
Wotan
Mighty
Ronald just played

Northern Pike currently unavailable.

 

[Wotan]

With the intentions you had set out for the turn set I would say it played out just dandy. Aztecs DoWed us for war happiness, we have Japan on our side and tech seems to move ahead just fine. Klarius is sure coming to a table full of goodies! Maybe I get to take one or two cities in Aztec/Japanese territory though I doubt Klarius will leave any for me or TimB...

 

[klarius]

I got it and will start to play in the evening.
I'm not so optimistic that the war will go that fast. We'll see .

A note about MM. With the library a coastal tile is now as many beakers as a scientist. So we can already now squeeze out more beakers, but at more starvation. A harbor will fix this so I will complete this first. This will also allow to see the resources our neighbors will trade, if they get harbors.

 

[klarius]

The save.

I played into the middle ages. Tech trading went fine and we got a second tier free tech (theology).

Technotitlan and Teotihuacan are ours (hopefully to keep - there are lots of Aztecs around). Aztec capital is Osaka.


I started a phony war with Egypt and Netherlands in the hope that helps our allies Persia and Babylon. We'll see how this works out.

Turnlog:

Turn 0 1500:
MM capital for more commerce, no scientists. Set build to harbor.

IBT:
Lots of Aztecs enter Japan. Rome shows a curragh. Will probably need peace before going out with dromons.

Turn 1 1475:
Harbor->dromon. That's 18 Aztecs going for Osaka. Sell MM for a few coins.

IBT:
Osaka falls to Aztecs. Roman curragh block our coastal tiles.

Turn 2 1450
Nothing really.

IBT:
Arabia gets ToA. Sumeria GLib. Aztecs still move lots of units towards Japan.

Turn 3 1425:
The Roman are not talking. I cannot afford to move out our dromon.
Sell Col to China for a few coins.

Turn 4 1400:
Peace with Rome for MM and CoL. Have to MM for happiness.
Meet Carthage. A small gift and sell then MM.
First 2 units land in Aztekia.

Turn 5 1375:
2 more units in Aztecland. Meet Russia. Sell CoL for a few coins.
Meet Arabia. A gift and sold MM.
Found the home of China.

Turn 6 1350:
Not much.

Turn 7 1325:
Find the home of Iroquois.
Attack on Tenochtitlan. 4 spears die easily and we capture the city.
All 5 citizens are resisting.

Turn 8 1300:
Not much. One resistor quelled. Lost a sword on a spear in the open.

Turn 9 1275:
Not much luck with RNG - another lost sword at good chances.

Turn 10 1250:
Again not much, but India has construction. I decide to continue to MA.

Turn 11 1225:
A skirmish at Teotihuacan, but no decision.
Hittites have currency .
Buy construction from India for an arm and a leg, so we can research into MA.
I doubt that I can do much in trades on TBP, but I try.

IBT:
Well, that worked pretty good . Gifted all scientifics.
Could get feudalism for monarchy and cash, mono and engineering for feud and monarchy.
Then cash back and we get a free theology.

Turn 12 1200:
Capture Teotihuacan. But there will be quite a counterattack next IBT.
I try if Babylon and Persia will do better with a war.
We declare on Egypt and Netherlands and ally Babylon and Persia. That's just a try.
Get spices from Ottomen for feudalism.

Our science is set to education, because that's the only thing that will increase our science soon.
But it will take forever and some .
I have currently micromanaged with lux rate and high shields to complete the mace.
Next turn that should go back to something more sensible.
We still need military, but soon we also should slot in a market.

 

[Ronald]

That looks really nice you had exciting turns

 

[Ronald]

I had a look at the save, some ideas:

Tenochtitlan can switch an entertainer to scientist

We have two choices: the save and the risky one
The save one is to make peace with the Aztecs, save our wounded troops and relocate them to fight Japan first.

The risky one would be to stay at war with the Aztecs and hope to survive the counterattack. Given the stupidity of the AI not to use defensive units such as spears for offense, we will definitely survive the first assault, but with some losses. To prepare better for the second wave, I would change our build in Constantinople to a pikeman. He can be transported the next turn into Teotihuacan and should be able to defend the city if we get a decent RNG.

If the risky one is successful, we should be able to eliminate the Azrecs within the next 10 or so turns.

Personally I would choose the risky option, but we should have some discussion about.

 

[klarius]

No peace with Aztecs.
We still have 2 turns alliance and don't want to kill our rep. We will for sure survive the next turn (more defenders than attackers). Then it's a gut call, if we will need attackers or defenders more. But anyway Aztecs have to go within the next 10 turns, period. And Japan the turnset after that.

 

[TimBentley]

Got it. I'll take a look at it tonight and play tomorrow I think.

 

[TimBentley]

Looking at the military advisor article, since the Aztec military is average, I estimate they have no more than 12 units we can't see. So once the army is healed and a few MDIs join in, defeating the Aztecs shouldn't be much of a problem. Spreading some ivory around would be nice, although I'm not sure those that could receive it now are worthy.

 

[klarius]

Spreading some ivory around would be nice, although I'm not sure those that could receive it now are worthy.

Trading resources away before astronomy is too risky for the reputation IMO. One might take the risk with a nearby neighbor, if there is something important to gain, but not for just a few coins.

 

[klarius]

BTW, haven't mentioned it before. I think Tenochtitlan should build library then aqueduct after the worker. Teotihuacan should build the harbor, then library. Later maybe workers if we can spare the grass cow (we have again a lot work to do and I expect that we also want to merge native workers in Tenochtitlan later).
Speed up the builds by forest chops after the workers complete the road.

 

[Wotan]

OK, happened to check in by chance, just to discover Klarius had already played and TimB is about to play his turns. Sometimes the notification e-mails about new activities in your subscribed threads just don't work do they?

Well, as suspected Klarius made mince meat out of the Aztecs. Looks reaklly nice and I do like the current situation re. tech though the normal situation occurs when successfully having traded into the MA. Your scienec output does not meet the requiements to keep up when starting to work on MA techs.

Looks as if I will see some action vs. Japan when it is time for my trn set. Though you never know, maybe TimBentley will finish them off too.

Most of what can be said about the current situation seems to have been coveerd but you guys. I strongly agree with klarius about not risking our rep by trading resources at this point. And to finish off the Aztecs. Good hunting TimB!

EDIT: read Klarius second post re. Libs and can only agree with this too. Science our primary concern and probably will be for teh rest of the game so definitely we should build them ASAP.

 

[klarius]

Well, another small point.
After the most urgent work is done around Aztec cities, some workers should return to the home island. We can get the capital to 30sh for 1 turn dromons (we will need more ships to attack further away civs) or horses, but need to plant at least one forest on the regular grass. Then either everything mined, or another forest on the grassland cow and 2 mines on plains ivory.