SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Do we give up some turns getting Factories and Power if needed? Which cities out of Moscow, Siberia, Hammer are more important to set up?

I think mining execs might actually be more important than Factories, however we do not get gold from overflowing the build (At least I don't think based on a not thorough test last turn set).

You can finish a factory in Siberia in one turn (so I definitely would do that). And since we might not get overflow turned into gold there from building a mining exec, I would build wealth there during the critical research to physics stage.

I also think we need to think about what type of power plants we would like to build. I personally think after physics we beeline Plastics so we can build a hydro plant and the 3 gorges dam. Avoiding the pollution from a coal plant equals 1 specialist for every city we want a factory in (which is most of them). While we wait to build the 3 gorges dam those cities can be building mining exec / research / wealth instead sinking hammers into power plants that eventually we will not need.

Plus if we don't depend on coal we can give all of it away near the end of the game for an additional +2 health in all our cities (this will cause a -50% production penalty in Siberia, but 2 health in all our cities is worth a lot more than what we might lose. And we wouldn't be able to build any more railroads) We wouldn't be able to do this if we built and depended on coal plant for power.

Moscow might be able to finish a factory as well during the 3 turns between the GA when I have it scheduled to run only 5 specialists.
 
We have Ecology / Recycling already, which is why I assumed we might just go Coal here. 300h is a significant build, but with Mining and Factory/Power should be pretty quick (and worthwhile, since we'll incur +3 from just forge/factory/resInst even without coal).
 
Yeah, I agree. A bit hard to estimate, though. When you say "on schedule", what do you mean? T220? T221?

I estimated that on T220 Physics would show being completed, so that on T221 you could use the GS to trigger the GA.

I think we can do this, just depends on how many cities build wealth, how many farms temporarily become specialists. But I haven't done the numbers (Just flipped specialists around last week at the end of my turnset to see if it was possible. Didn't write any numbers down and of course didn't save it, so I don't know for sure)
 
I estimated that on T220 Physics would show being completed, so that on T221 you could use the GS to trigger the GA.
Ok, that should be relatively easy.
 
We have Ecology / Recycling already, which is why I assumed we might just go Coal here. 300h is a significant build, but with Mining and Factory/Power should be pretty quick (and worthwhile, since we'll incur +3 from just forge/factory/resInst even without coal).

I think it depends on how fast we can get Plastics. If we can get Plastics in a reasonable amount of time and our cities are busy getting mining execs out then delaying power plants makes sense.

If we are going to delay Plastics then coal might be the way to go. I still doubt that the recycling center is worth 300 gold though in many cities. In terms of benefit to cost ratio the recycling center comes last in the string of (aqueduct, grocer, supermarket, hospital, recycling center).

The recycling center doesn't help with the unhealthiness from having coal and power (which I assume you know). It might make sense if we decide to build some industrial parks.
 
I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but I just wanted to point out that we'll want observatories in any cities generating a decent amount of base commerce and in all cities eventually.

I also think that Coal now is better than waiting many turns for Hydro. We may replace the coal plants at some point, but cities with a lot of hammers should build them now, I think.
 
You can't replace Coal power plants (you live with the pollution for the rest of the game--or I don't know how do this if it is possible), and the hammer savings of just building the 3 gorges dam in Siberia rather than in all our cities on the main continent is significant. Plus building mining exec rather than coal power plants is significantly better for us. A mining exec probably produces about the same number of hammers that a coal plant would, so while we wait for Plastics it would be very efficient.
 
You can't replace Coal power plants (you live with the pollution for the rest of the game--or I don't know how do this if it is possible), and the hammer savings of just building the 3 gorges dam in Siberia rather than in all our cities on the main continent is significant. Plus building mining exec rather than coal power plants is significantly better for us. A mining exec probably produces about the same number of hammers that a coal plant would, so while we wait for Plastics it would be very efficient.

Agree that Three Gorges is nice, but we lose the benefit of coal power for x turns, which has some amount of opportunity cost, right? Also, in a Vanilla game I played, I had coal plants in many cities and then built Three Gorges and the unhealthiness seemed to go away. I'm not sure if this is the case in BtS. We'll have to test it...
 
I don't think you can replace them, though I'm not sure what happens if we gift the coal away. The loss of Mining Inc. hammers isn't that great relatively speaking.

I agree with bcool to some extent. Realistically most cities might not even need them until about Plastics. I was mainly thinking of eating the :yuck: in places like Moscow, Siberia and Hammer for a while. Power in those would equal approximately 25hpt per city, which is about a corp spread per turn when building wealth. Seems reasonable.

Recycling: it's not as good per hammer as other health buildings, but for main cities it's quite good, I think. It will amount to at least 1 health per 100h (forge/factory/RI), and production centers could build them in 1-2t, depending on OF. Probably not in most cities, though.
 
This is my philosophy on mining corp. Every city would benefit from mining corp. I would spread Mining corp to the cities that allow the fastest spread. So if you can transport the mining exec to a city without it, that is the priority so you can start building another executive that turn.

Slight Preference to
1) hub cities (cities that don't have more important builds and can spread mining corp themselves reasonably quickly)
2) cities that will produce a great person and need specialist buildings still (That would include Paris, Bermuda, Bahamas, London)

I don't think it is worth spreading sushi to a city without a courthouse yet.
 
@bcool,
How is Kamchatka a backup Artist? We're running everything but Artists there - is that a typo? I'd love to hire a pile of Sci there for the Physics run.
 
General question: do we full prioritize Factories?
Specifically:
1) In cities that are in :yuck: and still growing, should builds go Factory/Aque/Hosp or Aque/Hosp/Factory? I'm for Factories asap, as that is more hammer-efficient and gives more flexibility (for wealth-building, etc.) One exception may be Moscow this turn?
2) In cities that are still production-deprived and missing research infra, do we just work on Obs/Uni or go for Factories first? This one is tricky in some spots, as the payoff period could be longish, depending on speed of corp spread. I'm generally for at least Obs asap everywhere for the ability to hire Sci in a pinch.
 
@bcool,
How is Kamchatka a backup Artist? We're running everything but Artists there - is that a typo? I'd love to hire a pile of Sci there for the Physics run.

run scientists, it was a mistake. I was just looking at the possible ways the GP people would be produced. The 5 person GA is a little tentative and I had forgotten what I was doing with Kamchatka before.
 
General question: do we full prioritize Factories?
Specifically:
1) In cities that are in and still growing, should builds go Factory/Aque/Hosp or Aque/Hosp/Factory? I'm for Factories asap, as that is more hammer-efficient and gives more flexibility (for wealth-building, etc.) One exception may be Moscow this turn?
2) In cities that are still production-deprived and missing research infra, do we just work on Obs/Uni or go for Factories first? This one is tricky in some spots, as the payoff period could be longish, depending on speed of corp spread. I'm generally for at least Obs asap everywhere for the ability to hire Sci in a pinch.

Somewhat case by case I think as you implied. I'm assuming 3 gorges dam is in our future so...

Sometimes mining corp (and even sushi corp exec) would be prioritized over factories. (A hub cities near a lot of cities that need it, and one that already has decent production)

Factories before aqueducts I would assume.

Observatories before factories in cities with a few commerce tiles. I'm not sure Universities (that haven't been started yet) are going make the cut unless the cities has a lot of commerce tiles or is already running a number of scientists.

If no significant commerce factories > observatory > university.
 
Isn't it 50*(1 + inflation rate/100) inflation is 44% so I think 72 gold. I didn't note exactly what it was in the game but that formula seems about right.
 
PRE-PLAY PLAN Initial Draft

This is getting quite complex and taking me a long time to plan out. :mischief: I'll post a plan now, as I'm still working on it...

I think I should play through 4-5t to the next GA. During this time I intend to overhire scientists and probably slow down corporate spread - however much is needed to get Physics on schedule. It will also let us see how the Gandhi conquest is going.

Given my RL schedule, I really need to play this mini-set tmr and repost another version of a PPP for the remainder of the set (maybe the whole 3GP GA) - to be played on the weekend.

Research / Espionage / Cash
Spoiler :

Immediate goal: get Physics in 4-5t.
I'll achieve this by hiring more scientists in non-GP cities for a few turns, and using a chunk of the wealth. I think we may be able to push the 4t at some sacrifice to city
development. Is this worthwhile? We're most likely running out of turns for GA as it is.

Later goals:
What do we want next? Elec / Ind, right? I think the goal is corporate spread at this stage.

Gandhi War
Spoiler :

Goals:
Capture Vijayanagara, Agra and Madras asap. Capture Delhi, Varanasi and Pataliputra in the second wave. Delhi is priority, but we have to take Vija first, and we won't be
sending further reinforcements beyond what's already landed 1N of Vija and what os on the galleys there. About right? If anyone wants to have a close look at the situation and suggest any moves, feel free.
Rough plan:
Spoiler :

T216
Bombard Vijayanagara and Agra (how many hits needed?)
Take Vijayanagara
Take Agra if possible (probably not?)
Galleys from Agra drop back to Newcastle for pick up

T217
Take Agra if not already
Drop off on Madras island
Move towards Delhi

T218
Take Madras
If there are spare units from Madras, load galleys for Varanasi
Move towards Pataliputra
Move towards Delhi
Drop units aboard galleys on hill Delhi-NW

T219
Drop some off at Varanasi, pick up others from Madras for drop off next turn
Arrive at Delhi wheat

T220
Bombard Delhi
Take Varanasi

T221
Take Delhi
Bombard Pataliputra
Move from Varanasi towards Pataliputra
Probably CF

T223
Redeclare
Take Pataliputra
Take Bombay with Delhi stack

Question: any clever way to cut off reinforcements to Delhi from the south?

Edit: maybe the above isn't gonna happen, though. He does have quite a few units milling around, and I don't really know what to expect for our unit loss. I think we ideally
wanna take 5 cities asap, including Delhi (so we can work a hill town :lol. Might need a short break to regroup before that's done.


Corporations
Spoiler :

Sid's Sushi

Current cities
Spoiler :

Moscow 
Fish 
Siberia 
Pigs 
GP Farm 
Bahamas 
Bermuda 
Rheims 
Bananas 
Paris 
Kamchatka 
Orleans 
Bcool Island 
Shanghai 
The Crabbes 
Beijing 
Hammer City 
Tours 
Haiti 
Hastings 
London

Current Executives:
Spoiler :

2 aboard galley @ Orleans-NE
1 in Rheims
2 in 1t from Beijing and Orleans

Mining Inc.

Current cities:
Spoiler :

Moscow 
Fish 
Siberia 
GP Farm 
Kamchatka 
Beijing 
Hammer City 
Steam

Current Executives:
Spoiler :

1 aboard caravel @ Bermuda-NWW
1 @ Pigs-NWW
1 @ Hammer City
1 @ Siberia
1 in 1t from GP Farm
1 @ 67h in Fish

Spread:
I'll keep the cash I need for Physics. This turn, I'll spread Mining Inc. to Bahamas (hub) and Paris (needs it for the opening of spec slots). That will let us build two more in GP Farm and Fish. After that, we'll see how it goes.

Cities
Spoiler :

Moscow
Builds: Factory / Hospital / Wealth
Options: Recycling Center / Coal Plant (these don't seem either necessary right now, or popular, so I won't)
GP: 2000gpp on T229. Run all good tiles and hire 5-6 sci with spare pop when out of GA; run more sci (as per bcool's spreadsheet) once back in GA.

Note: I will rely entirely on bcool's specialist numbers. I think our gpp situation is too complex to actively recalculate while playing. We'll have 5t pauses most likely, so can reevaluate as needed. Ok?

Fish
Fire some merchants as we get out of GA (7 total), rehire on T221. Note: firing the merchants here drops both our research rate and cash rate, but I guess it's necessary.
Builds: Wealth, but finish Mining Inc. executive when possible / Factory / Harbor
Option: I'll think about it more, but we might wanna complete the Factory while the merchants are fired.

Siberia
Keep growing onto workshops, except to hire 2 extra Eng after Factory.
Builds: Wealth / Factory / Wealth / Aqueduct / Observatory / Hospital

Pigs
Just run all the Sci we can.
GP: 2400gpp on T231.

GP Farm
Keep growing at 1 / turn (this seems sustainable for another 5-6 pop at the current level + we'll get more food).
Builds: Execs @ 1 every 2t
Farm the sugar. Leave the one WS for 50hpt Exec production.
Hire all artists as the city grows. Why are we running a Spy?

Cuba
Hire Sci instead of Spy+Eng (Physics research)
Option: hire two more Sci for Physics run
Builds: Wealth
Wish list: Sushi and Mining > Harbor/Observatory (maybe later, depends on growth pattern)

Bahamas
Hire Pri + Eng
Spread Mining this turn
Builds: Wealth / maybe Mining Inc Exec (for Bermuda) / Wealth / Factory / Aqueduct / Observatory or Hospital (depends on timeline, it's in :yuck: and growing)
GP: 3000gpp city.

Bermuda
Hire 2 Spy + Eng
Spread Mining Inc. in 4-5t
Builds: finish Market / Wealth / Factory / Aqueduct / Observatory or Hospital
GP: back-up city for 5GP GA.

Rheims
Why are we running an Eng if this is backup GM?
Slowing it down in gpp is a bit awkward. What do we do here? Just hire citizens? Converting the farms to workshops would be great. I'll see if the railroad crew can do
something about that.
Builds: finish University / Wealth / Harbor / Factory / Aqueduct / Observatory / Hospital
Priority city for Mining Inc.

Bananas
Fire Eng, hire 4-6 Sci for Physics run
Will we need more ships? Perhaps we could do a Drydock here and dedicate?
Builds: Galleon / ?

Paris
Hire Eng now; T+2 hire 2 more spies (when Jail complete)
Spread Mining Inc. this turn (send the one parked in Hammer City)
Builds: Jail / Intelligence Agency / ?
GP: Next @ 1800 gpp.

Kamchatka
Hire some Sci to speed up Physics
Builds: Observatory / Mining Inc. Exec as available / Wealth as needed / Harbor / Factory

Orleans
Hire Sci to speed up Physics as needed.
Builds: Sushi Exec / further execs as available / Observatory
Has no need for health for now. Needs Mining Inc. to boost Exec spam.

Chengdu
Might hire Sci or two to speed up Physics.
Needs Sushi badly - both for growth and for flipping two resources from America.
Builds: University / Observatory / Harbor

Bcool Island
Hire some Sci to speed up Physics
Builds: Observatory / Wealth
Wish list: Mining Inc.

Shanghai
Hire Sci or two to speed up Physics
Builds: Wealth / Observatory / Factory

The Crabbes
Hire Sci to speed up Physics
Builds: Wealth / Observatory / Factory
Wish list: Mining Inc. (could use it bad)

Beijing
Run 5 Spy 1 Eng; hire Pri in 3t (when temple complete)
Builds: Sushi Exec / Confu Temple / Frigate(?) / Factory / Observatory / Execs&Wealth
GP: backup city for mongrel.

Guangzhou
Builds: Observatory / Factory / Harbor (maybe no Uni here at this point)

Nanjing
Builds: Forge / Library / Observatory

Hammer City
Builds: Wealth / Factory / Wealth / Library / Observatory

Tours
Fire Spy+Eng, hire 2 Sci for Physics run.
Builds: Library / Forge / Observatory

Haiti
Fire Spy, hire 2 Sci
Builds: Forge / Observatory / Harbor

Hastings
Farm the corn!
Builds: Library / Forge / Observatory

Nottingham
Builds: Courthouse / Library

York
Maybe hire a Sci
Builds: Courthouse / Library or Forge

Oxford
Needs a sugar plantation and WB
Builds: Library / Forge / Lighthouse

Newcastle
Hire some Sci for Physics run
Builds: Courthouse / Library / Forge

Iron Spice
Builds: Courthouse / Forge-Lib-LH

Mitchum's Oasis
Builds: Granary / Forge - gets Mining Inc. first and then CH

London
Fix tile assignments. Runs 6 Pri + 1 Eng + 1 Spy, then hires 3 more Pri in succession (when completing temples), then 2 Eng (when completing Factory). Needs Mining Inc. right away.
Builds: Library / Hindu Temple / Jewish Temple / Confu Temple / Factory / Lighthouse / Observatory

Canterbury
Might hire Sci
Builds: Courthouse / Forge / Library

Warwick
Builds: Courthouse

Steam
Question: do we still need the Marseilles-Steam canal?
Builds: Courthouse / Granary-Forge

Rostov
Builds: Courthouse / Granary

Yaroslavl'
Builds: Courthouse / Granary

Yekaterinburg
Fire Artist next turn
Builds: Courthouse
 
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