SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

[LowtherCastle]

Well done, Mitchum, on discovering the horses! Did you have to break them? Thank God we SIPed!!!!

I totally knew we'd get a horse, but it didn't even occur to me it'd be NNE. Cow and ivory is perfect, though I would have liked a forest or two. Is the cow plain or grass?

Grass.

Spoiler :

But that would leave the mystery of what they built while growing to pop2 (let's ignore that growing to pop2 causes a health imbalance for now). They couldn't have built a warrior because of their power, so it had to be barracks. Why build rax? Maybe AH revealed nearby horses? Supposing their initial tech plan was agri-AH-wtg, but there were horses in the bfc, then it makes sense they switched to TW, to connect the horses and to get the +1 from the cow pasture. That would mean the horses are at 1E or SSW or NNE, because on the river they don't need a road to connect.

Is Erkon so evil? I think not. I think we settled on copper (or maybe iron). If not, I feel sorry for anyone settling NNE, that's gameover for them. This is exciting. Erkon gave us lots of goodies to play around with. Thank goodness, considering we've got all this fallout to scrub.

We need an updated test save.

Roosy in Rep (fav civic: Mercantilism) is going to research like a bat out of hell. Mao also with SP (there goes the GSpy ). dG will be collecting a ton of EPPs and the b@$t@rd will build Taj, if we let him.

EDIT: We've got an advantage on anyone starting with agri, too! They were banking on having to clear fallout before needing AH .

 

[Mitchum]

EDIT: We've got an advantage on anyone starting with agri, too! They were banking on having to clear fallout before needing AH .

Interesting. I was thinking that we would still pasture the cows first. Pasturing the horses first will speed up the second worker by several turns but may delay our growth to two pops. Testing is definitely in order here, but horses first will likely win.

I likely won't be able to update the test save until Monday. Church and a golf tournament are on my agenda for tomorrow. Hopefully someone can get to it before then. Sorry...

 

[bcool]

I started with bbp's latest test game for the SIP testing (I think he fixed that one to match the starting demographics for the AI)

I updated the map tiles, and resources and tried to get the tiles on the edges too, but no guarantees.

Switched starting techs
Roosevelt constitution
Mao Communism
De Gaulle Nationalism
Churchill (left him with electricity)
Stalin (gave him advanced flight to make soldiers work out)

Looks like everyone except maybe Churchill and Stalin are going to have significant espionage advantages over us.

 

[Soirana]

one hell of cap made for REX... on size four settler is something like 5 turns to build?

I am fairly convinced Ducks might have gone AH>Wheel>Agri> fishing

There is good second city which can borrow second gold [lessening food stress in cap] and rice will be needed both for cap growth and fighting unhealthiness...

 

[babybluepants]

I'll do some testing tmr fitting the horse pasture in...

one hell of cap made for REX... on size four settler is something like 5 turns to build?

Yeah.

I am fairly convinced Ducks might have gone AH>Wheel>Agri> fishing

Why on earth would they not just research Agri first for the discount then? I'm pretty sure those are their techs, though.

 

[Soirana]

Why on earth would they not just research Agri first for the discount then? I'm pretty sure those are their techs, though.

the fact you work plain horse changes food issue in cap. with 2xcows+2xgold+horse you are left on +1. That is not satifasctory.

If you give gold to second city you are left with option to improve hills i believe. Depends on gow much second city place is irratiated but it might need rice to stay healthy.

Also with extra hammers in cap granary moves up on wish list and agri gives discount for pottery. Something along these lines.

 

[mystyfly]

Looking great guys

Thank god we didn't settle NNE indeed... looks like we started perfectly considering what we learned by now. I'm afraid I can't offer constructive comments as I didn't really have the time to read all the discussion carefully.

Really evil trap by erkon to leave just this one tile un-fallout-ed and together with the seafood draw teams to settle there... Looks like we didn't take the bait, eh

Continue the great discussion and play, guys

 

[bcool]

I just did a bit of testing this morning and I noticed a potentially significant difference in the test save. I didn't put fallout on the elephant's tile--sorry.

updated test game (with fallout on the elephant's tile)

 

[shyuhe]

Hey guys, I'm finally back in the loop now, so I can start contributing again Looks like things are going well though! I'm going to go take a few swings with the test save.

 

[shyuhe]

So here's what I managed:

Oracle for alphabet, I guess. But alphabet alone isn't enough to buy peace So I'm thinking maybe MC while teching alphabet may be better?

In terms of opening, I went triple worker, then warrior -- chariot -- barracks -- warrior -- settler -- settler. I improved northern cow, horses, then split the river gold and cows between the two workers.

 

[babybluepants]

@shyuhe,
In my last test run, I was getting Oracle MC much sooner. I think you're delaying the first settler way too long, and we're all building immediate libraries.

@All,
The horse makes this a lot more tricky... Not sure when to work the golds, since I want a settler at size 3.

 

[Soirana]

@shyuhe,
In my last test run, I was getting Oracle MC much sooner. I think you're delaying the first settler way too long, and we're all building immediate libraries.

@All,
The horse makes this a lot more tricky... Not sure when to work the golds, since I want a settler at size 3.

switch of horse as cow becomes cleaned. We won't miss hammers and food is more precious.

I'd say build settler at size four and pick second gold as first tile from new city while building workboat.

After settler i would want moar workers. Workers>libaries

 

[mdy]

Not sure when to work the golds, since I want a settler at size 3.

The gold is probably worth growing to size 4 for. It only delays the settler by 4 turns.

 

[shyuhe]

Yeah that's what I figured about the library. I was more interested in seeing if triple workers is any good here.

 

[babybluepants]

I'd say build settler at size four and pick second gold as first tile from new city while building workboat.

After settler i would want moar workers. Workers>libaries

Library is before size 4 and settler. It's not library vs. workers, it's library or barracks or more warriors, while growing. Also, we need all the research we can get here, as the price of DoP / OB keeps increasing.

The gold is probably worth growing to size 4 for. It only delays the settler by 4 turns.

Sounds right. With the horse pasture, we can't even make it to the second city in time to clear the fallout.

 

[Soirana]

Library is before size 4 and settler. It's not library vs. workers, it's library or barracks or more warriors, while growing. Also, we need all the research we can get here, as the price of DoP / OB keeps increasing.

Depends on what you research as third tech i guess.

 

[mdy]

I have been very busy recently, and I am going to be away for the next week. When I get back I hope to be able to make a greater contribution, until then I will leave the game to you.

 

[Mitchum]

I've updated bcool's last test save by:

• Adding the Rice to the west.
• Giving Gandhi Fish so that he researches Fishing first.
• Advanced the game to T12.

Improving the Horses first is causing me fits. It speeds up the worker by 3 turns but puts our other worker actions behind. I'm going to try getting a third worker before the settler to see if this helps.

 

[babybluepants]

I'm still in favour of Wheel before Writing. It feels more comfortable to me, with no food lost due to unhealth. Currently I'm looking at worker-worker-warrior-warrior-library with growth to 4 @ 2280 BC. After that, I now prefer third worker ahead of settler. Horse pasture puts us several worker turns behind in setting up the second city site. This lets me work one gold in second city while building WB and growing capital to 5.

I'm still going for Oracle in tests, and getting COL or MC in 1400 BC. GLH is doable in 600's.

One advantage of going for Oracle techs, instead of stuff like BW, Sailing and Pottery, is that Gandhi might not have Medi or Poly (he should have the other techs I mentioned), and that can be enough for DoP/OB in conditions like our test game. DoP and OB obviously depend on map setup (Gandhi's location), though. If we can agree that we're going Wtg-Wheel-Fish or Wheel-Wtg-Fish, there's no need to decide yet.

Edit: x-post w/ Mitchum

Improving the Horses first is causing me fits. It speeds up the worker by 3 turns but puts our other worker actions behind. I'm going to try getting a third worker before the settler to see if this helps.

Yeah, same here. It's awkward, as it delays the extra food, whereas it doesn't really give us an extra tile until much later (since we're likely stuck at size 4 until well into 1000's BC). Still, for now I think horse first is best overall.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I don't quite understand how pasturing the horses delays the food. Don't we grow to pop2 on the same turn either way?