SGOTM 12 - Regular

The legion will defend.

Our chances of winning without a hp-loss are less than 16% (16% if one doesn't count defense bonus). We couldn't fortify the unit afterwards, so it would be strength 2 archer vs 1.1 archer with a defensive shot. The chances of winning both fights are pretty slim.

Does CAII tell the order in which the civs are acting? If so, we might wanna sign the Portuguese against the Romans and hope they kill the Roman units.
 
Also is there any chance that if we leave that slave unprotected one of the roman units will wander over and attack giving us enough time to move the Delhi spear up as reinforcements?
 
More claculations with CAII:

Our archer has a chance of 48% vs the legion. After that our elite spearman from Delhi could attack the archer with a 70% chance of winning.
 
Turn order is shown on the score/power/culture graph. The human is out of order at the left of the graph, because he plays first. Then it jumps over to the right-most AI, and proceeds from right to left.
If you can buy Portugal against Rome I would do so, whether or not they would be in time to help out. Just becasue I like alliances. :smug: Could tie it to a peace renegotiation. :mischief:.
As for making the town raze-safe, I would say yes let's do that even in we think the Portuguese might take out the Roman. Better safe than sorry. Perhaps Isabella would appreciate another town? She only has one of her own right now I believe...
In which case don't forget to get the archer headed towards Delhi before the gift - having him teleport back to Constan would be the last thing we want right now.
And to fight the Romans, how about more dromons? :D We can waste their shields real fast by killing three units for the price of one.
 
Continuing...

Check tunr order. Seems like Portugal is after Rome.

Gifting Bombay to Spain after moving the archer out.. Sign Portugal vs Rome for Peace treaty+ ROP. they even give us 2 gold.

470 BC (3) - Two Roman units close to Delhi.
Ship chain two MIs to there. Our 4 units kill their 4 units (the Portuguese had weakened the other two.
Kill off an Incan stack losing one MI.

450 BC (4) - Crusader done. Quiet except for killing some more Incan units and finally moving the army next to Chichen.

430 BC (5) - Kill a probably filled Roman galley.

410 BC (6) - Chichen Itza was only filled with two units now...
Capture it!

390 BC (7) - Roman waters are quiet for the moment.

370 BC (8) - Capture Copan.
Seems like WW is kicking in a little more. Need to raise lux to 20% again.

350 BC (9) - Kill a Roman galley.
I think we can declare on Spain and prepare for when the Portuguese Peace treaty gets broken by them.
Inca should fall easily soon.
I don't know whether it makes sense to go on the offense vs Rome, they have a lot of units running around there.
BTW, we are currently paying 12gpt unit support, maybe we should disband something or just throw at someone...

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Got it. Will play this evening.
It's nice to be back taking towns again, although giving away Bombay has dropped us out of the leading position on the territory graph. But I agree that there's no great reason not to take Bombay back again as soon as we are sure we can protect it from Rome.
Should we look for peace with the Romans? If we are confident of controlling the Byzantine Sea sufficiently well to stop them threatening our towns, we may as well continue to let them give us war happiness I suppose.
 
at the moment, we still have the alliance with portugal against the Romans, which I wouldn't want to break. So, as soon as the Portuguese sign peace with them (we are then at war with portugal) we might wanna sin peace with Rome. I think we can wait for better defense units until we capture the Roman island.
 
No turns played yet, but plenty of micro agonised over. :D
Education will come in a couple of turns, so if anyone has any objections to Astronomy, now is the time to say so.
 
No turns played yet, but plenty of micro agonised over. :D
Education will come in a couple of turns, so if anyone has any objections to Astronomy, now is the time to say so.

Does that mean I did some serious mistake in MM?
Or just your usual thoughts...;-)

I am fine with Astronomy although more Dromons would also be nice.
I guess, the Observatory will help us more than the Dromons.
 
I'm just trying to predict how many shields and coins we will get once the GA wears off, so we don't end up with builds coming in a shield or two short, that kind of thing.

Indeed, it will be a shame not to be able to build more dromons; in naval combat they are virtually as good as anything before destroyers; per shield, they would hold their own against frigates, and they get to transport units too... ah what a unit!
Astronomy has other uses apart from Copernicus of course; trans-sea trading, faster long-range ship movement. I suppose after Astronomy we do Banking, and hope we can swap the two of them for Invention and/or Guns. I notice that the French have got Theology, which suggests that they have chosen to follow us up the top branch of the tree. Wasters :shake:
 
Does anybody have any thoughts about where we put the FP, when we build it, and whether we use a leader or do it by hand? It will be available for building once we have two more cities.
 
:eek:
This is what we are up against...

Regular_SG012_paris_270bc.JPG


The buildings she has in there are: barracks, granary, temple, market, library, walls, cathedral, colosseum, harbour, Pyramids, Gardens, Colossus, Sun Tzu, Mausoleum.
Well when I said that Paris must be as strong as Constantinople... it's way stronger!
 
Well, half way there. The Inca are gone. I'll finish up tomorrow evening (a little late on my own 24/48 hour schedule :blush: ) but first I would like the team's permission to launch an attack on Egypt. I would buy in Persia and if possible Holland; Persia to draw the Egyptian troops before we arrive, and Holland because they are supplying Egypt with wines. Memphis is currently home to 3 vet spears and a galley, and is building a 2-turn archer (with our war happiness it could do 1-turn archers/spears, which is why I want to cut the Dutch wines).

I can get 10 units landed next to Memphis in 210bc, for a 190bc capture. This would still leave a knight and two longbows on Azjap to look out for Egyptian landings, the dromons off the Roman coast are stopping anything getting off that rock, and there are plenty of units in Delhi, as well as the army heading back there, in case we get the Portuguese dow.

We can't actually hook Egypt up until Astronomy of course, but that should be only about 12 turns away.

I haven't taken Bombay back yet, as it is still size 1; I am guessing it is at risk of autorazing unless anyone knows differently? Perhaps Bella is having trouble growing the town since we whipped it. She won't have any units in there yet, and she doesn't have any luxuries. And if we give her some luxuries then we prevent ourselves from attacking her.
 
Paris would be anice FP location but it is not worth it IMO to wait that long.

It should be a rather big city and not too far away, but I think Delhi is too close.

Maybe some Egyptian town? I am fine with declaring on them if we bring some ally in.

I am not 100% positive, but I think, that a city doesn't autoraze if it had a cultural expansion once, even if that was under a former owner.
 
Yay! More war! If I'm to keep up with the schedule I reckon I'll need pretty prolific handover notes.
 
Paris would be anice FP location but it is not worth it IMO to wait that long.

It should be a rather big city and not too far away, but I think Delhi is too close.

Maybe some Egyptian town? I am fine with declaring on them if we bring some ally in.

I am not 100% positive, but I think, that a city doesn't autoraze if it had a cultural expansion once, even if that was under a former owner.

Well I'll get planning a quick route to Paris :) Actually I think it isn't so far, sailing west from our Incan ports, past Sumeria and England. But whether we should aim to get the FP in there is a pretty complex issue - France should get Gunpowder soon enough. Will they have saltpeter, in which case all those spears become def 5 musketeers? Should we let Joan build Copernicus? Whether it is used by us or her, it will make more beakers in Paris than it will in Constantinople.


Taxpayer said:
Yay! More war! If I'm to keep up with the schedule I reckon I'll need pretty prolific handover notes.

I was thinking to have you do the same job as last time. I'll take their lightly-defended capital, and leave you to hold the place and take their other town from their returning and enraged hordes of units. :mischief:

Playing now...
 
Okay, I have stopped a turn early, 170 bc, as we have a pretty serious moment ahead of us. The news in short is that the Egyptians are gone (they only ever knew two other civs; Persia and Holland!) and we have a leader over there.

Here is my verbose turnlog:
Spoiler 250bc to 170bc :

350 bc

Micro the empire a bit and get lux down to 10% - knock a turn off Education, but I don't know if that will survive the end of the GA in 2 turns time.
Switch Copan to slave as we are desperately short of manpower and there is an epic irrigation project to be undertaken.
Load the knights from Azjap - 2 more are due there next turn anyway. Delhi's knight heads south by foot, and two maces load up. I am throwing firepower towards the Incans as fast as possible.
Switch Delhi to courthouse. Switch Constan to market as a uni prebuild.

Give Shaka Maths for 33g. He has taken a German town - perhaps we should have given Bombay to Otto then. Note also that the Mongols have taken out the Hittites, who are not SCI.
Give Ragnar Monarchy for 10gpt + 14g.
Embassy London. England is north of Sumeria; only a short trip west of Cuzco in fact.

Disconnect our iron, and begin rebuilding the mine.

Interturn

Road completes north of Chichen.

There is some combat on Roma; presumably the Portuguese made a landing there.

Constan pops a crusader.
Osaka builds knight; start granary.
Teo builds dromon; start dromon.


330 bc

Tenoch does not build knight, natch (WLtKD ending?). Switch it to courthouse.

Native worker proceeds towards Chichen; 3 slaves start road. Slaves north of Chichen go to road the horse between the two Mayan towns.
Slaves near Osaka start road. Slave near Kyoto heads west to join the irrigation.
Dump two slaves from Teo over to Byzantium, to get the mine replaced one turn quicker.
4 slaves start mining the ivory north of Teo.

Send two maces and the army just inside Incan territory.
Switch a crusader and AC onto a dromon, in place of maces; error - I should have left the maces in India, and now I need to run a scientist in Constan.

Dromons near Cuzco head northeast to run a ship chain.
Bomb some Roman improvements (1/4 hits).

Give Wang Feudalism for 1gpt + 191g. This means he is capable of researching Invention... but what was he researching already?

Interturn

Roman units shuffle around Roma, and Portuguese galley sail around the Byzantine Sea.
Two Incan swords move to the mountain south of Copan.

Tenoch builds courthouse; start aqueduct.


310 bc

Dromons all come together off the west coast of Byzantium, and there is some heavy duty walking from ship to ship.
Two Incan galleys have also appeared east of Cuzco. Bomb them for 3hp damage and sink one.

Ignore the Incan swords, and two maces, the army, 4 ACs and 2 knights move next to Cuzco. This leaves 2 crusaders, a mace, and fast reinforcements from the north to defend Copan.
The army puts in a preliminary attack, killing a spear.

There are 136 beakers remaining to get Education. It says 1 turn, but this is the GA-ending turn. I don't believe I can make it. Let's see...

Constan needs to do 24 shields to finish market/uni. This gives it 29 commerce. At 90% science this splits to 26 beakers and 3 smiles, but it needs 4 smiles to stay operational. So run a scientist... 27 commerce from tiles will split to 24 beakers, which multiplies up to 36.
Maxing commerce (5 ivories and a horse) will get Tenoch 22 beakers, Teo 16, Osaka 15, Kyoto 12, Delhi 22, Chichen 2 and Copan 2, for a total of 127 beakers: 9 short. Run Chichen as a scientist for an extra 2, and run 5 scientists in Delhi for an extra 6 beakers. That ought to do the trick. Fingers crossed.

Interturn

Road completes SW of Delhi.

The Incan sword head into our territory, and are joined by a slaver.

Discover Education! Set research to Astronomy and Constan to university.
Constan builds university; start market.

France gets Invention and starts Leonardo


290 bc

Native worker joins Chichen - it has whip weariness though, so a passing AC has to stop in for mil pol duties.

The crusaders and a knight kill the Incan units at Copan without much fuss.
Attack Cuzco with a mace - it loses without doing any damage. The next mace wins without taking any damage. Attack with an elite AC which retreats, and then take the town with the next elite AC.
Cuzco has 3 resisters out of 5 citiens. Start a slave.

Send the army back north again; it shouldn't be necessary in the capture of Tiwanaku.
Advance the other fast units into Incan territory.

Bomb Roman improvements for 2/2.

Switch Delhi to horse while we have the iron unhooked.

Interturn

The Romans really do have quite a lot of units don't they? A Roman galley heads out.

Copan builds slave; start library.


270 bc

Advance units to Tiwanaku; 4 knights, 4 ACs, 2 maces and a crusader. Sound like overkill? Maybe, but from here they could sail east to Egypt...

Use the whip in Osaka. Slaves on Azjap head up to improve the Tenoch area some more.
Use the whip in Chichen.

Sink the Roman galley. Drop 2 maces off in Delhi... I think that's right back where they came from a couple of turns ago!

Give Joan Education + Chivalry for Invention + 24g and upgrade 4 of our archers to longbows.

Interturn

Mine finished on iron.

An Aztec archer leaves Tiwanaku - the old "run to the hills" approach to AI defense again.

Delhi builds horse; start horse.
Chichen builds harbour; start library.
Constan pops a crusader.
1 resister quashed in Cuzco.


250 bc

Kill the stray Incan archer with an elite AC, leader fishing.
Vet AC attacks Tiwanaku and wins. Vet knight attacks and wins, and the Inca are finished.
Tiwanaku keeps its harbour, and we get 3 slaves. Start library.

The Incan slaves head north to join the irrigation project.
Start reroading the Byzantine iron (2 turns). Upgrade Delhi's horse with Incan iron.

Shift the last 2 archers from Azjap to Byzantium for upgrading.

Now we have a coastal route west from Indomaya: give Gil ivory + incense for dyes + 1gpt.
Give Gil Monarchy for 2gpt + 32g.

Embassy Persia; 3 spears and a galley in town. Market will finish in 2 turns.
Investigate Thebes (over 100g, ouch). It is building 2-turn archers, and has 3 spears and a galley in defense. Cleo is buying wines in from someone. It could be the Mongols, Dutch, Babylonians or Persians, although Cleo claims to only know Will and X-man! According to F4, it is Will she is trading with.
Embassy Russia; Moscow is defended by pikes and building maces. Give Cath ROP for 1gpt + 12g.
Give Osman ivory for 6gpt.
Give Ham Invention for 9gpt + 57g. Give Ragnar Monotheism for 7gpt + 21g.

Dow Cleo. Give X-Man 2gpt for war with Egypt. Will, however, is in no mood to join the fight; 5 techs would put him close to a deal.

Load up 6 units from Tiwanaku and sail east towards Egypt. Bring over another dromon and load two more units.
Load a longbow and crusader out of Constan and send them south.
Bomb Rome some more, and notice that Portugal has dropped 2 horses a spear and an archer onto Rome's iron at Veii.

Interturn

Portugal loses all 4 units to the legions.

Kyoto builds dromon; start market.
Constan pops an AC.
Quell a resister in Cuzco.
Delhi's borders pop.

Babylon begins a Leonardo build.


230 bc

Upgrade the last two archers.
New dromon from Kyoto heads out south to help advance units on the ship chain.

Switch Teo from dromon to aqueduct - Constan can concentrate on dromons for a while.

Interturn

Constan's iron rehooked.

A suspicious number of Ottoman units is massing on our border at Tiwanaku.
A Roman galley heads out for a beating.

Cuzco builds slave; start slave.
Constan builds market; start dromon.
Osaka builds granary; start worker.

Greece begins Leonardo.
Orleans completes Michaelangelo.


210 bc

Sink the Roman galley.
Land 6 units south of Thebes and 4 units to its northeast.
Send the army south again in case Osman really is planing an attack.

Cut Constan's iron again, and start remining it: Constan will have to work on a 3-turn knight for now.

Interturn

All kinds of worrying developments: a Persian galley sails into our Azjap waters, a stack of Portuguese spears marches into Delhis's territory, and four Ottoman spears move next to Tiwanaku - but I don't know if it's an attack force, as they could have sent plenty more units in than that.
Some of the AI get Republic - it looks like Portugal was the researcher, Persia bought it, and sold it on to Holland and Babylon.

Kyoto grows to pop 7.


190 bc

Crusader attacks Thebes and wins. Mace attacks Thebes and loses. Elite* AC attacks Thebes and wins. Mace attacks Thebes and takes it. 5 resisters from 9 citizens, and the town keeps only its harbour. Start slave, and set it to riot rather than starve.
Sail a dromon into Thebes, bomb a spear on the hill to the east of town, pick up crusader and longbow which did not attack, ship chain them around to land next to Memphis.
Bring an AC and a mace across from Azjap to Thebes via ship chain, bomb the spear to redline it, and kill it with the mace. Advance 6 fast units to the hill 2E of Thebes.
There are two Egyptian galleys outside Theban waters; kill one with direct attack.

Let the army block the northern road for Osman's spears. Partially surround Henry's spears with units - those guys are toast if they attack. Osman has a galley near our wines, which has been dancing with one of our dromons for several turns now... units leave Constan to protect the wines. Osman can't cut the wine in one turn, so we won't run out of happiness.

Bombing successfully cuts both Roman iron sources.

Give Henry ivory for 67g.

Interturn

The Portuguese and Ottoman spears all withdraw from our territory, and the Portuguese unload a single horse onto Roma.<br>
The Persian galley does not unload anything, but continues its progress west... Kyoto is undefended. Another Persian galley arrives near Teo. Persian units also arrive next to Memphis.
Egypt unloads an axe next to Thebes, but hopefully it will be too late to do anything.

Thebes riots.
Osaka builds worker; start worker.


170 bc

AC attacks Memphis and wins. AC attacks Memphis and promotes. Elite knight attacks Memphis and throws a leader. Reg knight attacks Memphis and wins. Crusader attacks Memphis and we take the town. No more Egyptians.
Memphis keeps its granary and harbour. Start slave. Park three units in there and it can avoid rioting.

I'll stop here for some serious debate.

A summary version will follow presently.

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