SGOTM 12 - Regular
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
Sorry, Kulko!
I thought you were done.
Nevertheless, madviking is up after you.
I thought you were done.
Nevertheless, madviking is up after you.
Turn 7 (cont.)
Build up a worker blockade
MM Con
IBT: We miss loosing the galley battle by one point so now the GA is upon us. Good News we build 2 turn knights and Theology is due in 8.
Turn 8:
Nothing really happens, I shift the worker cordon and notice that the Incas have conquered a Mayan City.
Turn 9:
Mayans and Portughese seems to have some kind of truce. Not to surprising, since they both seem to have brought mostly defenders. I land next to Cichen and find a Incan Stack of 3 Swordsman and 2 Archers waiting there already. I hope The defenders are valiant.
IBT:
Arrgl. We should sue the Ais for illegal tampering. The Maya move one spearman out of the city and of course this guy would have been enough to fight back the attacking force.
Turn 10:
Hmmm I am totally stuck how to proceed, so I rather give the control over to the next guy. Botho ur next neighbours have spearman forces in the thousands and not really suffered form the war. We produce 2 turn Knights and of course also AC and Crusaders, so we should still be able to make progress, but it needs to be done carefully planned.
Build up a worker blockade
MM Con
IBT: We miss loosing the galley battle by one point so now the GA is upon us. Good News we build 2 turn knights and Theology is due in 8.
Turn 8:
Nothing really happens, I shift the worker cordon and notice that the Incas have conquered a Mayan City.
Turn 9:
Mayans and Portughese seems to have some kind of truce. Not to surprising, since they both seem to have brought mostly defenders. I land next to Cichen and find a Incan Stack of 3 Swordsman and 2 Archers waiting there already. I hope The defenders are valiant.
IBT:
Arrgl. We should sue the Ais for illegal tampering. The Maya move one spearman out of the city and of course this guy would have been enough to fight back the attacking force.
Turn 10:
Hmmm I am totally stuck how to proceed, so I rather give the control over to the next guy. Botho ur next neighbours have spearman forces in the thousands and not really suffered form the war. We produce 2 turn Knights and of course also AC and Crusaders, so we should still be able to make progress, but it needs to be done carefully planned.
Well guys I am sorry, but I think that went wrong. I should either have attacked not at all (to avoid GA) or 2 turns soooner to capture the towns. On the other hand, I think that tampering charge against the Mayans is a sure win in Court. They threw everything they had against the Ports and left their back wide open to the Incans.
By now we can sell our iron to Porutgal, when we think we want that long a peace.
By now we can sell our iron to Porutgal, when we think we want that long a peace.
madviking
north american scum
got it .
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
if you didn't start playing already, can you wait a bit?
I guess, PB will have some pretty useful, important thought for MM in the GA.
I guess, PB will have some pretty useful, important thought for MM in the GA.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Well we can't complain I suppose: we've benefitted from those fleeing defenders on several of our previous seiges. 
The GA isn't so bad. It's a shame not to have the Mayan towns in hand to benefit from it, but if we have the GA while we are slow to research we gain more turns from it.
But the military situation is pretty worrying. We really have a choice of taking on Portugal or the Inca.
In favour of Portugal:
- they might have taken some casualties from the recent war, and from the economic beating we just gave them.
Against Portugal:
- their towns are a bit rubbish and far away. Good slave material perhaps?
In favour of the Inca:
- they have iron.
- some of their towns (i.e. the Mayan ones) are quite close to us.
- the sooner we hit them the less time they have to build a huge army.
Against the Inca:
- their units have iron.
- they are quite close to us, and can easily threaten our weakly defended holdings.
- we would break our deals with Osman as the only trade route to Istanbul runs through Incan coastal waters. Which is funny becasue Constantinople and Istanbul are the same place!
Personally, I suggest we attack Portugal, and leave the Inca until we have a more powerful military.
I don't suppose we have any capacity for blocking the retreat of the Portuguese units while we build up our forces? Better to kill them in the field than in their towns.
The GA isn't so bad. It's a shame not to have the Mayan towns in hand to benefit from it, but if we have the GA while we are slow to research we gain more turns from it.
But the military situation is pretty worrying. We really have a choice of taking on Portugal or the Inca.
In favour of Portugal:
- they might have taken some casualties from the recent war, and from the economic beating we just gave them.
Against Portugal:
- their towns are a bit rubbish and far away. Good slave material perhaps?
In favour of the Inca:
- they have iron.
- some of their towns (i.e. the Mayan ones) are quite close to us.
- the sooner we hit them the less time they have to build a huge army.
Against the Inca:
- their units have iron.
- they are quite close to us, and can easily threaten our weakly defended holdings.
- we would break our deals with Osman as the only trade route to Istanbul runs through Incan coastal waters. Which is funny becasue Constantinople and Istanbul are the same place!
Personally, I suggest we attack Portugal, and leave the Inca until we have a more powerful military.
I don't suppose we have any capacity for blocking the retreat of the Portuguese units while we build up our forces? Better to kill them in the field than in their towns.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
On what to build during the GA...
Well Constan's max shield output should be 30 + 13 = 43. So the best choice is surely 1-turn maces. When you travel everywhere by dromon, a mace is worth a lot more than half a knight.
Azjap towns without barracks, like Teo, need to build dromons. We need more transport/bombardment capacity. Don't forget there is now no fear in sinking stuff and bombing towns that we are besieging.
Towns with barracks (just Tenoch right now?) have to settle for maces I suppose.
Or... we can unhook the iron by pillaging (after queueing up a 1-turn mace (41 shields without the mine) of course). Then Tenoch can build axes for upgrade, and Constan can build 1-turn horses for upgrade, while letting Teo use the eastern moo.
So forget about all those schemes involving selling our iron. They are far too much bother, and far too unsafe.
I prefer the unhooking plan of course. That cash is no good if we don't spend it on something.
Well Constan's max shield output should be 30 + 13 = 43. So the best choice is surely 1-turn maces. When you travel everywhere by dromon, a mace is worth a lot more than half a knight.
Azjap towns without barracks, like Teo, need to build dromons. We need more transport/bombardment capacity. Don't forget there is now no fear in sinking stuff and bombing towns that we are besieging.
Towns with barracks (just Tenoch right now?) have to settle for maces I suppose.
Or... we can unhook the iron by pillaging (after queueing up a 1-turn mace (41 shields without the mine) of course). Then Tenoch can build axes for upgrade, and Constan can build 1-turn horses for upgrade, while letting Teo use the eastern moo.
So forget about all those schemes involving selling our iron. They are far too much bother, and far too unsafe.
I prefer the unhooking plan of course. That cash is no good if we don't spend it on something.
On Portugal:
Well they have lost about 6 at most 10 untis in the war. They have retreated huge amounts of units back to their home in the last two turns again, so I guess there is still plenty of beatable material left.
But same is unfortuantely true for the Incas. They moved about 8 Spear into CI in the last turn. I think the only possible modus operandi can be, to send taskforces to all their cities and try to execute coordinated 2 turner (land and conquer) to take their armies out of the game immediately. Of course thats harder with the Incans because they have 4 cities. but attacking Portugal needs a strong defense in Bombay so that not that much different.
Re Osman trade route: The deal is they give us spice and we gave a one time Payment (Currency) so does it really constitute a problem, if the deal gets broken?
Well they have lost about 6 at most 10 untis in the war. They have retreated huge amounts of units back to their home in the last two turns again, so I guess there is still plenty of beatable material left.
But same is unfortuantely true for the Incas. They moved about 8 Spear into CI in the last turn. I think the only possible modus operandi can be, to send taskforces to all their cities and try to execute coordinated 2 turner (land and conquer) to take their armies out of the game immediately. Of course thats harder with the Incans because they have 4 cities. but attacking Portugal needs a strong defense in Bombay so that not that much different.
Re Osman trade route: The deal is they give us spice and we gave a one time Payment (Currency) so does it really constitute a problem, if the deal gets broken?
PaperBeetle
Emperor
I certainly assumed that breaking that trade route would give some kind of rep hit, but now that you mention it, I don't know for sure.
As for the land & strike manouevre, I agree that should be our ideal strategy, but doesn't it just become a bloodbath if we use it on someone who has a lot of units at home? We land, they attack us, we reflect on how we don't have to pay so much unit support now...
As for the land & strike manouevre, I agree that should be our ideal strategy, but doesn't it just become a bloodbath if we use it on someone who has a lot of units at home? We land, they attack us, we reflect on how we don't have to pay so much unit support now...
Well the plan would be the following:
we declare War on lets say Incas.
we keep our invasion fleet handy in striking distance
we wait 5 turns.
now all his swordsman stand shortly before india
we land our troops
one or two of the landing ships bombard the roads to the front
The army makes sure they don't take Delhi by accident.
Second turn we bombard each of their Cities and take them.
Should be easy to be done with Inca, but needs a lot of troops ( about 16 Knights or Crusader types and 8 Dromons + defense)
Its easier on troops with portugal, but then we need about 5 or 6 pikes in Bombay.
we declare War on lets say Incas.
we keep our invasion fleet handy in striking distance
we wait 5 turns.
now all his swordsman stand shortly before india
we land our troops
one or two of the landing ships bombard the roads to the front
The army makes sure they don't take Delhi by accident.
Second turn we bombard each of their Cities and take them.
Should be easy to be done with Inca, but needs a lot of troops ( about 16 Knights or Crusader types and 8 Dromons + defense)
Its easier on troops with portugal, but then we need about 5 or 6 pikes in Bombay.
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
Ideas if we want to attack Inca:
-If our army is fully healed on the chokepoint, I am pretty sure they won't attack it if they have another target (for example the Sumerians)
-I think we have an alternative way for our trade route with Ottomans. He has a harbor and thus it should go via coast to coast to Portugal and from there to Delhi and from there to Constantinople.
-Getting Inca in one turn is quite hard, they have 4 cities and we don't even know the exact locations.
-If our army is fully healed on the chokepoint, I am pretty sure they won't attack it if they have another target (for example the Sumerians)
-I think we have an alternative way for our trade route with Ottomans. He has a harbor and thus it should go via coast to coast to Portugal and from there to Delhi and from there to Constantinople.
-Getting Inca in one turn is quite hard, they have 4 cities and we don't even know the exact locations.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Well now this goes to show why we shouldn't have disbanded those exploring curraghs... we can't trade along coasts that we can't don't have a map of. While it is true that there must be a clockwise coastal route from the Ottomans, around Korea, past Portugal and India, and from there to Byzantium, we can't see it, so we can't use it. Similarly, we don't know whether Sumeria is on the landmass as the Inca, but I very much doubt it, as they had very poor contacts with the Indomayan guys. Which is a shame because you are right that the (healed) army ought to be ineligible as a target for AI units unless there is nothing else for them to attack.
As for the locations of the Incan towns, we can see three of them, and the shape of their borders tells us that their second native town (Machu Pichu?) is four tiles due south of Cuzco. So all their towns can be attacked by landing parties on the eastern coast, but yes that would take a far larger army than we have now. Again I wonder if it will be more efficient for us just to fight them conventionally at the chokepoint, and kill all their units by hand.
As for the locations of the Incan towns, we can see three of them, and the shape of their borders tells us that their second native town (Machu Pichu?) is four tiles due south of Cuzco. So all their towns can be attacked by landing parties on the eastern coast, but yes that would take a far larger army than we have now. Again I wonder if it will be more efficient for us just to fight them conventionally at the chokepoint, and kill all their units by hand.
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
BUMPidududududidu
Any news on when you can play madviking?
We should keep a pace a bit faster s.t. we can take our time when we need it and don't have to hurry through later stages.
Any news on when you can play madviking?
We should keep a pace a bit faster s.t. we can take our time when we need it and don't have to hurry through later stages.
madviking
north american scum
I'll play today.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Rock on.
I did a graph of the teams' playing speeds, because, well you know I like to break open an Excel whenever I get twitchy
Now what this clearly shows is that playing speed depends on the team colours! Teams playing in blue are progressing at a steady pace, while those at the red end of the spectrum are going through the game like a knife through butter. Meanwhile, with these weak yellows and lime greens, the Smurkz and Regulars are crawling along... I think next SG, Alan should have all teams show as 255,0,0 red on the graphs!
But yeah, soc is right, we should try and pick up the pace a bit. We don't want to get caught short when Alan comes around with the "all other teams have finished: you have 36 hours to complete the game" message of doom.
I did a graph of the teams' playing speeds, because, well you know I like to break open an Excel whenever I get twitchy
Now what this clearly shows is that playing speed depends on the team colours! Teams playing in blue are progressing at a steady pace, while those at the red end of the spectrum are going through the game like a knife through butter. Meanwhile, with these weak yellows and lime greens, the Smurkz and Regulars are crawling along... I think next SG, Alan should have all teams show as 255,0,0 red on the graphs!
But yeah, soc is right, we should try and pick up the pace a bit. We don't want to get caught short when Alan comes around with the "all other teams have finished: you have 36 hours to complete the game" message of doom.
madviking
north american scum
OK, I'm on turn 102 and we got an MGL on the ithsmus of death, since we had all the ACs there but Inca got tons of crap then I went leader fishing and got one, so the question is since we have 7 cities what should I do with him? We can't build an army, Inca got about 20 spears/archers/swords floating around Chicken Eatza.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Mm, interesting problem. I suppose the most expensive use we have for him is rushing the Epic in one of the Indian towns. Earlier I was going to reply to soc's mention of the Epic by saying we didn't need to build it at all, and all leaders would be better spent on armies or FPs. But here we are with a leader and we can't build either of those, so why not the Epic? As well as boosting our leader generation, border pop at Delhi will bring us some more nice tiles.
The other alternative would simply be to leave him parked in Delhi until we capture our eighth town. Depends how long you think that will be, and how many elite wins we are likely to get in the meantime - do we have any naval assaults planned on the southern end of the Incan empire?
The other alternative would simply be to leave him parked in Delhi until we capture our eighth town. Depends how long you think that will be, and how many elite wins we are likely to get in the meantime - do we have any naval assaults planned on the southern end of the Incan empire?
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
I'd be fine with the HE too. I think it will at least pay off leaderwise. And yeah that culture is also nice. They all will be throwing so many outdated units at us, s.t. we'll get enough leaders anyway then.
Taxpayer'sMoney
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Messages
- 206
Hi, my hard drive went poof the other day so I might have to be skipped for the foreseeable future. It might mean the end of my (turn-playing) contribution to this SGOTM. I just don't think I can justify spending another £900 just to play civ a couple of days a month! And yes I am aware I could buy a new hard drive rather than a new PC but it's so old it's not worth repairing. 
