SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[killercane]

Land on the nearer forest. Isn't that a better spot anyway? Protected and adjacent to the city as well. What's in the stacks, BTW? They look a bit scary.

Don't unload on the first round. Move the boats. Next turn unload them and head back to get the other four. That way the waves come in one after the other.

Has the wonder been built? Definitely wait until that is done.

Edit: cross post with KC. IMO, the forest is clearly the better landing site.

An even better plan. Take it to em Mark!

 

[Andronicus]

We need to get a consense on what to trade to whom.

I'd keep Curr, Lit till Cons is around.
I'd trade Philo, MM, Poly (in that order) if we are in need of money or we can get 30+g (or slaves) for it.
I'd sell Maths and HBR for less.

I'd Gift money before trading tech to any SCI civ to keep them friendly.

What do you guys think?

This corresponds to my thoughts other than I would substitute 20g for your 30g.

 

[markh]

The Aztec stacks consist of archers, jags, horses and spears. It is quite a lot. If they do not burn the units quickly we will face quite a number on the counter attack.

There is not much gold around. The only one that has 28 gold is cleo. I will sell a cheap tech to her this round.

 

[markh]

1) 1750BC : nothing as Paul played it already

IBT : The Persians start building The Great Lighthouse
The ottomans start Mausoleum of Mausolos

2) 1725BC : meet Mongols and Zulus, but they have nothing of interest and few gold

IBT : Con : dromon -> sword

3) 1700BC : nothing

IBT : Literature comes in -> Code of Laws

Delhi completes Mausoleum of Mausolos

4) 1675BC : sell polytheism to Cleo for 30g

IBT : Con : sword -> sword

The Ottomans start building of The Great Lighthouse

That was it, all Aztec units are now near the battle zone, the area at their capitol is free of units

5) 1650BC : nothing

IBT : Egypt starts building The Great Lighthouse

6) 1625BC : get to know Russia and sell her Polytheism for 26 gold
sell myst to Shaka for 26 gold

IBT : I see the first jag winning

Con : sword -> sword

7) 1600BC : Construction is on the market. India and Ottomans have it.
I get construction and 31 gold for currency from Gandhi

IBT : The Aztecs request an audience, I decline

8) 1575BC : nothing

IBT : The Aztecs take Osaka !

Con : sword -> sword

9) 1550BC : I do not know why, but our deficit goes from -21 to -6, ah maybe gpt payments stopped.

IBT : it is about time, Teno completes The Great Lighthouse
Ottomans switch to The Great Wall

10) 1525BC : I have not moved any units as I think this is a good time to give it to the next player and he can decide where to land. We have free space at Teno now.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Yay, and the most exciting turnset is gonna be for me !!!

I will have a look at it tonight and post me ideas.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Well, it's turn 59, so i guess you made some count error.

Our score graph looks terrible, but that is just deception. We have a late library and lack the culture for a territory increase.

I do recognise two errors after openng the save: (sorry if i am complaining to much, i hold back nothing, and i don't expect any of you to do so either.)
-our loaded boats with units should have been at the Aztec coats so that they could unload and load new units in 1 turn.
Now, i will be able only to unload them, get new units the next turn and unload them in 2 turns. This costs us 1 turn.
-The spear is not in the boat, but 4 swords are loaded instead.

We have an average army compared to the aztecs, and strong compared to Japan.

Checking for trades, we know 25 out of 30 civs.

Korea is willing to pay 1 gpt. They are very backwards so an old tech will do. They are scientific and far away, so 20 turns of peace should be no problem.
Spain is willing to pay 3 gpt. They are very backwards so an old tech will do. They are however supposed to be conquered by Korea, so i aint yet sure if i should take it.
Other than that, there are a bunch of backwards civs that i am planning to sell techs.


My plans:
turn0:
Finish current sword build.
Trade for some gold and gpt.
Replace sword with spear and sail to coast.

turn1:
Build Library.
Land force 1, load force2.


turn2:
land force2.

turn3:
Finish library, start sword.
Lib should bring CoL Eta 5 to Eta 3 or 4.
Attack Aztecs. New city should bring CoL to Eta 3.

turn4:
heal and regroup. We'll see what is gonna happen on the millitary front.

turn5:
sword-sword.

turn6:
CoL should be ready. Do the trade stuff and hope for some luck.

turn7:
sword- ?
depending on losses, i may add more swords or build a harbor.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Plans will be edited due to KC's suggestion:

Because there are no roads and the Aztec capital is unlikely to hold attackers, i could land the 4 swords on the plains and load 4 more units. (including spear because most likely they are now building archers) Then land second group next turn and attack after that without time loss. The only disadvantage now is the exposiure of swords on open ground. With their GA, they may be building archers in 1 turn and have one ready to attack us after we land.

Even if they attack the swords though, delaying to get the spear and drop them on forest is not better. They should be building a unit every turn now, so delay is not an option.

 

[markh]

No problem with criticism.

I knew it was turn 59, but I thought it makes no sense just landing the troops, so the next player can decide where and play on.

I kept the boats in our waters as usually the AI sends units back if enemy boats are in their territory. At least that is always my impression.

Sorry about the spear. I totally forgot about it.

I think we can land on the plain ivory as there are no Aztec units around and they cannot reach that spot soon.

 

[killercane]

Putting on the ivory plains is no big deal, it is essentially the same if they have no units to attack us. I am amazed that Aztecs built TGL, rather than SuperFrance or a scientific civ.

More pressing however is what to do with Osaka? It is size 1 and autorazeable by us. How many turns left on our alliance? You think they would give it to us if we give them peace after our alliance ends?

 

[Abegweit]

Do NOT raze. After all, we can't replace. I imagine that by the time we are ready to attack it, it will have grown. I really doubt that taking Teno will be enough to convince Monty to give us the city anyway. This being the case, I see no reason for peace with the Aztecs. They hafta die.

Actually, I view this turn of events as good news. It weakens the Japs. Is not Kyoto currently building a wonder.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Is it an autoraze ? It does have culture from the aztecs.

 

[Abegweit]

Is it an autoraze ? It does have culture from the aztecs.

Mixing up the Nips and the Spics seems to be a recurrent problem for our team. But, as to the point, I think you're right. The Japanese culture would prevent a raze.

 

[Andronicus]

Yes - it will not autoraze as Japs built culture
Agree landing on ivory plains with first boatload as we need attack Teno ASAP (every turn delay is an extra unit)
High probability of Japs going for peace - I strongly recommend regaining the alliance immed with tech so Aztecs remain distracted with Japs on one side and us on the other.
@ mark - I think Paul got your numbers all mixed up - 1750BC was his turn 10, your turn 0 not 1. You have stopped at an appropriate time however.

 

[killercane]

What about starting some wars (Im beating this drum again)? We have to give all the sci civs everything at age change anyway. Might as well get them into Golden age and possibly profit (Babs/Persians). Have we met all sci civs yet?

Can we urge some civs into Golden Age at the right time to help us in the Middle Ages? Like the knight UU civs?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I expect to be in MA in 6 turns. before those 6 turns, i would like to gather gold. Without selling Literature, and keeping at least 1, possibly 2 AA techs on every civ.

After the tech trade 6 turns from now, it is time to make alliances IMO.

 

[killercane]

Note: In 7 turns our deals with Ghandi and Osman end. We have 10 more turns on the Japanese alliance.

With sliders down, we only make 29 gpt (factoring in the 12 gpt we pay to support units which should be gone when we take Tenoch). We have not met Sumeria. All in all we may have to wait to enter MAs, we have to see what we can do after taking Tenoch. Some of the others may get CoL to cheapen it.

It would be really really nice to get 10 more gpt from somewhere. Maya embassy is 34 gold and they are pretty backward. We can get them into Golden Age easiest of the civs around us. Plus they are the target on the horizon for us.

 

[killercane]

Can we gift and retake Tenoch? Losing out on the Lighthouse for a few turns but does that stop resistance? It protects the town from flip, and also we gift it to whoever we will declare on next for the proxy scientific wars. Also is that legal?

 

[Paul#42]

I don't think gifting Teno prevents it from flipping - I think it even raises the chances because distance to the other captial is bigger than to ours - even if we gift it to Japan
Japan seems to do a bad job helping us. I fear they just sent cannon fodder to generate lots of Aztec leaders - maybe even an MGL. Let's hope the AI does not suddenly use its leaders properly...

Why don't you want to land on the forest W of Teno? That seems the safest place to me. Or do you want to land on the (probably) roaded tile to deploy unused swords more quickly?

I disappointed about Teno taking so long to complete GLH. We are quite behind our schedule

Let's go Wacken!! As a Hamburger SV soccer fan I'm quite convinced of Dutch power right now

 

[Andronicus]

Why don't you want to land on the forest W of Teno? That seems the safest place to me. Or do you want to land on the (probably) roaded tile to deploy unused swords more quickly?

If we land on forest the dromons wont get back to load next batch till a turn later - this delays attack on Teno 1 turn and prob increases number of units by 1. The dromons needed to have been closer to be able to land both groups on forest in successive turns causing minimum delay in the attack on Teno.
By landing first batch on ivory plains tile then both groups will be on forest outside Teno the following turn

I disappointed about Teno taking so long to complete GLH. We are quite behind our schedule

I think it is good. More units wll be needed to push the fight further - we now have more (just need Teno so we can support them).
I half expected someone else to build GLH and Aztecs cascade to SoZ. This way we get benefit of GLH (which may help with meeting more AI before age change) and should later get SoZ from Japs. My estimate of soonest poss time for GLH was only 1 turn earlier if immed GA (which it appears they didnt get) and if they had a mined BG in the fog - 9 turns is actually quicker than I expected

Looking at Teno..., there are 2 tiles obscured - 1 appears to be forest. Of those I see it is likely working the horse hill, mBG, forest and 3 mGrass (ivory)
There may be another mBG hidden but that gives 11spt with max poss of 12spt up to 18-19spt during GA which should come soon).
Normal shields req for GLH is 300, SoZ 200, how many for deity AI? I thought it was 60% ie 180 or 120 respectively
Started 1870BC (turn 47) - so 3 turns so far 33-36shields.
This gives earliest poss GLH in 8 turns if get GA next IT, latest 14 turns if dont get GA (unlikely). If some one else builds GLH (Paris has built collosus, pyramids, ToA and is in GA) then SoZ should be built in between 5 to 8 turns or later if in cascade. My best guess is 10-12 turns, but we should be prepared for 8.

edit - I note Japan is building SoZ in Kyoto. In the 1790 embassy screenshot it was building spear at 8spt. I assume it switched to SoZ following turn. If Aztecs get to build GLH then Japs should build SoZ in 15 turns - timing seems just about right.

By this reckonning SoZ should be built in approx 5 turns, our alliance ends in 10.

 

[Abegweit]

If we land on forest the dromons wont get back to load next batch till a turn later - this delays attack on Teno 1 turn and prob increases number of units by 1. The dromons needed to have been closer to be able to land both groups on forest in successive turns causing minimum delay in the attack on Teno.
By landing first batch on ivory plains tile then both groups will be on forest outside Teno the following turn

Agreed. If the Dromons were in place to drop troops off on the forest, that would have been the best move. As it is, dropping them on the ivory is right.

In passing, there is something I have never understood. Why do we have a spear?