SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[Andronicus]

No, that is a pure gpt-trade without lump sum from Japan.
I'm 99% sure we will get no rep hit if the alliance ends.
edit: And I'm 99% sure we won't be able to eliminate the Aztecs during the next 7 turns - that's a combined 99,99% not to trash our rep

I had thought asking someone to go to war in an alliance is considered a once off thing like giving a tech or money and hence subject to rep hit if paying someone gpt or lux for it and the alliance does not last (unless other party ends it by going for peace), but I may well be wrong
Yep I doubt we will eliminate Aztecs in 7 turns unless Wacken has a scheme involving getting all Aztec units out of their towns whilst we sail a small attack force to land and take (bikini babe trick perhaps - but I dont see somewhere safe to land our bikini babe)

Any idea what the Aztecs spent their (our ) money on? Embassies?
No upgrades, no rushes, no tech trading...

P'haps just running negative gpt

Why does CA2 (on page trade options) show "0" for workers from Aztecs and Japan and "--" for all others? Because the others never had offered any for now?

In order to trade workers I think you need to be connected by trade route

 

[Paul#42]

In order to trade workers I think you need to be connected by trade route

Do we have a trade route to Japan?
I guess it's just a not properly initialized variable ("null <> 0") somewhere... in save or CA2
I'm not sure yet what that information is good for maybe nothing

 

[Paul#42]

From the corner of my eye I just saw that dirty Spanish took a town from our scientific friends, the Koreans.

Is there any opportunity to stand by our friends?

 

[killercane]

Do we have a trade route to Japan?
I guess it's just a not properly initialized variable ("null <> 0") somewhere... in save or CA2
I'm not sure yet what that information is good for maybe nothing

Actually you only need a city on the same continent to trade workers (if they are in the capital).

Fighting 8 spears is bad, whatever we can do to avoid those is, well, good. If we cut roads up there that makes sense to me (on the ivory plains) and gift, whoever gets it will have resistors and cant build units. We could also tie this in with a dogpile or teleport troops back to the capital. If we take Teoti, we can load unused swords up there and reach near Osaka same turn, load up 4 more from the capital island.

Maybe we need to help Korea out by getting others involved in the fray?

 

[Paul#42]

Actually you only need a city on the same continent to trade workers (if they are in the capital).

Funny.
I never had the feeling I could only trade workers with civs I'm sharing a continent with... I'll watch that. At least it would explain why we don't get a single worker offered by other civs...

We could also tie this in with a dogpile or teleport troops back to the capital.

I'm pretty sure that teleportion of any kind other then being booted is a banned exploit.

If we take Teoti, we can load unused swords up there and reach near Osaka same turn, load up 4 more from the capital island.

Yeah, that should work. Let's hope, their forces are not devided too far. If they are, we slay their vanguard before we jump on the boats. We could use another dromon...

Maybe we need to help Korea out by getting others involved in the fray?

Who is around? I have no C3C available right now...

 

[WackenOpenAir]

First of all, i would like to give the credids for the plan to KC. Who i was chatting with while playing. He came up with the idea

I hope you guys are right that the resistance will still be there when we gift it to Egypt so that they cannot pop rush and only slowly build some units.

Bringing the units to the next town by boat should also give me the opportunity to upgrade some to MDI. If i upgrade damaged units, they become full 4/4 health right ?

I would like to be sure about the teleportation being banned. I have 9 units there. I would like to take away 6 by boat and keep 3 to fight of 2 units that will arive early. It would be nice if we could legally teleport those 3 in the gift.

I am planning to build 1 spear and 3 turns from now, i should be able to upgrade it to a pike. I will then also upgrade swords to MDI. So maybe archers are not so good after all. I think i prefer an MDI over 2 archers

With MDI, not to many units in Teoti and a lucky RNG on Teoti, 7 turns may be just about possible. (a whole lot of luck is needed though) Is anyone 100&#37; sure about the reputation thing ?

I'll upload the save again.
I'll probably play in about 5 hours.

 

[Paul#42]

I hope you guys are right that the resistance will still be there when we gift it to Egypt so that they cannot pop rush and only slowly build some units.

I'm not sure but it would be more balanced
But I would not be surprised if the deity-AI can quell resistance without any units.

Bringing the units to the next town by boat should also give me the opportunity to upgrade some to MDI. If i upgrade damaged units, they become full 4/4 health right ?

correct. But it needs a rax there

I would like to be sure about the teleportation being banned. I have 9 units there. I would like to take away 6 by boat and keep 3 to fight of 2 units that will arive early. It would be nice if we could legally teleport those 3 in the gift.

Well all I found in the list of exploits is
Teleporting Troops by Palace Jump
Moving your Palace to perform a massive Teleport of troops is not permitted.

So I figure it is allowed. I don't like it and would like to avoid it, but if it is urgent - do it.

I am planning to build 1 spear and 3 turns from now, i should be able to upgrade it to a pike. I will then also upgrade swords to MDI. So maybe archers are not so good after all. I think i prefer an MDI over 2 archers

D'accord.

With MDI, not to many units in Teoti and a lucky RNG on Teoti, 7 turns may be just about possible. Is anyone 100&#37; sure about the reputation thing ?

No, just 99%

microbe states that we won't get a rep hit:
2. The deal involves an MA and the target AI is destroyed
If you have a gpt deal with A in which you have MA against B. If B is destroyed before the 20-turn period expires, the deal ends immediately but your rep isn't affected. It's often (ab)used by players to sign an MA when the target AI is about to die, and get money back as soon as the AI is destroyed.

 

[killercane]

Here it is; all teleport is banned. It seems that I argued to ban teleport in HOF games but I dont think it ever was and cant find the thread.http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111377&page=2
It really doesnt matter, we just need to shift troops back over by galley and the result is the same. Maybe keep 2 units there or even 1 and bombard the Aztecs coming up with dromons.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I think it may matter a lot. First we have to transport 6 units in 2 loads to our island.
Then we move the boats into the cannal.
Then we want to both land the units on the new city and pickyp the remaining 3 at the same time. Both are in different area's, so that may prove impossible.


By the way, if the aztecs build a boat or if the romans send one into the cannal, we may also be in trouble. We must prevent a GA now, so we cannot destroy boats that are blocking our path. In fact, i would not even like to end turns with our boats within 2 tiles of an enemy boat or city.

 

[killercane]

We can load 4 this turn and 4 next right? Are we landing w/ sword or MDI? The woundeds will heal on the boats or if upgraded.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

We can load 4 this turn and 4 next right? Are we landing w/ sword or MDI? The woundeds will heal on the boats or if upgraded.

We need to keep 3 units there to fight the comming horse and spear. Those will have to guard the city for a little while. We must keep the city for 4-5 turns both for the science and gpt, and to be bait for the main stack.

I will be landing MDI as much as possible. These are very likely to win against spears, so if i can gather 8-10 of em, we may be able to take both towns without healing.

 

[Paul#42]

Here it is; all teleport is banned.

I can't find it in that thread - it's all just discussion that it should be banned.

In the Gotm-rules which apply here, it's only banned in combination with a palace jump, i.e. jumping the palace to the front and teleport the army to the front then.

If we want to be sure, we should ask Alanh if we can do it the proposed way.

However I do not like it too much and would like to solve the situation in a different way.

The units in boats will only heal if they don't move and then just 2 hp per turn (outside towns) - I do not think we will let them rest so long.

 

[Abegweit]

My understanding on the teleportation issue is the same as Paul's. I have PM'd AlanH to ask for a ruling on the question.

IMO, if it's within the rules we should do it. That's the way these competitions work.

The units in boats will only heal if they don't move and then just 2 hp per turn (outside towns) - I do not think we will let them rest so long.

AFAIK units outside towns heal at 1 hpt. It's units in a town w/o a barracks that heal at 2 hpt.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I already asked in the maintenance thread. It is illegal.

 

[Abegweit]

It's funny that I'm not getting emails about posts being made to that thread. But OK. Question answered.

 

[Andronicus]

microbe states that we won't get a rep hit:
2. The deal involves an MA and the target AI is destroyed
If you have a gpt deal with A in which you have MA against B. If B is destroyed before the 20-turn period expires, the deal ends immediately but your rep isn't affected. It's often (ab)used by players to sign an MA when the target AI is about to die, and get money back as soon as the AI is destroyed.

You are correct, however I think if we were to end the alliance prematurely with peace (eg Aztecs will give us Osaka + 44g for peace) our gpt rep would be shot

How do you have a broken deal

Your gpt deal could get broken and trash your reputation if any of the following things happens before the 20-turn deal ends:

You declare war on that AI (including MA/MPP).
You are exporting resources and could no longer do so for the following reasons:
the resources are lost, depleted or disconnected.
the trade route between you and the AI is cut (AI capital isolated, harbor is destroyed, the AI through which the route goes declares war on you or the other AI, etc).
You break an MA or MPP

 

[Paul#42]

AFAIK units outside towns heal at 1 hpt. It's units in a town w/o a barracks that heal at 2 hpt.

You are right of course

I already asked in the maintenance thread. It is illegal.

Not too excited that you asked in an open thread.
But it would have been worse if it was allowed...
Our rivals will ask themselves if we still have something to gift after losing two tiles in the last sets...

Okay, I feel better without doing that anyway

Let's kick some Aztec Ass.

(remember for upgrades to MDI / Pike you need Iron - only in our capital for now...)
((Why does GLH not work as a harbor ))

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Should i edit the post and make it that we want to conquer an egypt town and gift it to the aztecs ?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Sorry for the delay guys, gotta do some februari casino bonusses before februari is over... Will play tonight.

 

[Paul#42]

You're cruel! Can't wait to see your results.

If your turnset ends with all towns except Consti gifted to Egypt that might give the other teams something to think about.