Theology - Education to start the MA. Then probably the rest of the compulsory top tier techs, and Navigation if we need it. Hopefully the AIs give us Invention, Gunpowder and maybe more.
SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
ThERat
Deity
by the way, I am against catapults, dromons can do a much better job and are far more useful. I wouldn't build any...
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I see your point for catapults, but as long as we carry swordsmen around, they are a real asset. They saved my butt a few times on defense too.
About research, we need universities - yesterday.
Wars: why not actually go after portugal? Or maybe use this war to pull others against them while we're clearing the land. On this continent I believe there's maya, inca, india, portugal, korea, spain and ottoman. We need india down before knights, but this is far from hard at this pace. Soon it will feel like chieftain, with a few outstanding emperor civs. I'd take india first, since it is closest and has least corruption. Then I'd work my way inwards.
About research, we need universities - yesterday.
Wars: why not actually go after portugal? Or maybe use this war to pull others against them while we're clearing the land. On this continent I believe there's maya, inca, india, portugal, korea, spain and ottoman. We need india down before knights, but this is far from hard at this pace. Soon it will feel like chieftain, with a few outstanding emperor civs. I'd take india first, since it is closest and has least corruption. Then I'd work my way inwards.
I'd say India since they're reasonably close to reinforce. You'll need to check the cost of embassies because we may need cash to pull the Mayans and Incans in. Ottos may be good to keep out due to their science trait.
It would be awesome if the harbor there stayed intact for future trading and additional links. I would tend to cave to demands because the pace is so slow. We need to be focused and I think we get a happy bonus doing it.
If you can stop the war with the Ports I'd do it. They are ~7 turns away.
Upper half of the tree seems to be the best since we need unis and the AI seems to want LBs and muskets.
It would be awesome if the harbor there stayed intact for future trading and additional links. I would tend to cave to demands because the pace is so slow. We need to be focused and I think we get a happy bonus doing it.
If you can stop the war with the Ports I'd do it. They are ~7 turns away.
Upper half of the tree seems to be the best since we need unis and the AI seems to want LBs and muskets.
zerksees
in remission
No complaints on your plan ThERat.
After Japan is done, lets move on India - I think close is best so we can get more productive cities.
We should be careful with the Ottomans and their possible free settler/city. If we could just lure them to Japans territory
I think we can pick and choose whether we give in to demands. Since none of them have much cash there is not much they can do. I guess I'd give France some respect until they lose the tech advantage - but who really cares about the rest.
If Portugal will take peace straight up I'd probably take it. One victim at a time.
After Japan is done, lets move on India - I think close is best so we can get more productive cities.
We should be careful with the Ottomans and their possible free settler/city. If we could just lure them to Japans territory
I think we can pick and choose whether we give in to demands. Since none of them have much cash there is not much they can do. I guess I'd give France some respect until they lose the tech advantage - but who really cares about the rest.
If Portugal will take peace straight up I'd probably take it. One victim at a time.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Agreed on France, Portugal, Ottomans, and the SCI community. The rest can kiss our butts, so long as they get some dust to ground in the end.
ThERat
Deity
Portugal is giving us some WH of course. But will go for peace if they show up. I certainly don't want a premature GA now. It would be great to have the GA around the time we can build the expensive unis...
so the plan later on:
- take out Japan, declare on India after that (sign in others)
- get some MP's for our cities
- get us currency and possibly all 1st tier MA techs.
By the way, I wanted to thank the SGOTM team to come up with such a great scenario. Truly exciting
so the plan later on:
- take out Japan, declare on India after that (sign in others)
- get some MP's for our cities
- get us currency and possibly all 1st tier MA techs.
By the way, I wanted to thank the SGOTM team to come up with such a great scenario. Truly exciting
zerksees
in remission
We're scientific so unis will be half off right? If we build them early in the GA we can crank up the science and move the tech race forward too.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
160 shields still is a lot. In our smaller, sub-7 cities, this becomes a huge lot. Unless we have time on our hands to play builder, get aqueducts and pump up the shields in these locations, 160 shields will be worth GA considerations. I'm actually not sure what would be best for our techs: earlier unis means more beakers out of them. It will depend on their beaker/shield ratio when we hit education.
If we want to tech up ASAP, we should consider waging war on the french continent and gifting away cities. Having a strong research partner or two could make a bigger difference on our date than building up a few, more corrupt cities.
If we make it so that, when we earn the better part of the indian continent, we then ensure that Ottos/Perses/Babs get big cities to put people in, we get out winners for the tech pace.
If we want to tech up ASAP, we should consider waging war on the french continent and gifting away cities. Having a strong research partner or two could make a bigger difference on our date than building up a few, more corrupt cities.
If we make it so that, when we earn the better part of the indian continent, we then ensure that Ottos/Perses/Babs get big cities to put people in, we get out winners for the tech pace.
eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: Sci Unis = 100 shields, not 160 - decidedly cheap 
ThERat
Deity
Pre-Turn
checking things out, getting anal about MM..change a tile dromon still in 1 but 1 more coin in the capital
Teo gets the cow..that reminds me to rename the cities
Teo is the Rat Hole and Teno becomes Bear's Den
crank up science and currency in 11 at -8gpt
currently we have 23 units with 22 allowed
1.975BC
Zoo dromon -> sword
Bears Den: library -> spear
time for war, though our units cant reach a spot to land, our dromons could try and bomb the units in the jungle so we have a good place to land
first sell Japan CoL for his 43 gold
IT Sumeria demands philo, ok
2.950BC
the move worked and Japan vacated the jungle tile
we land 6 units there
defeat 2 units outside Rat Hole but lose the e-AC
IT Zulu demand alphabet, ok
Japan does have quite some units that are moved into the jungle and towards Rat Hole
we get another AC
French finish Sun Tzu
3.925BC
sell England philo for some cash
bomb Osaka, wound 2 spears, defeat 2 with AC, now the wounded show up
defeat 2 more spears and we got the city
there are now a total of 9 stranded Japanese units between Rat Hole and Osaka
IT excellent round as the Japanese suicide 4 units without any loss for us
4.900BC
kill 1 spear and archer in the way to Kyoto, but lose a sword
wound every of the 5 spears caught in our land, they won't pose a danger
IT seems they are desperate as the wounded unit pillages our land
5.875BC
defeat 1 of the spears to move forward and invade Japan with 5 units on their way to Kyoto
IT a French dingy and a Dutch galley turn up
6.850BC
Persia finally has currency as well...there goes our research, we would have had it in 4
it's cheap since we did our part already and the best part is, we got feudalism as a freebie
move 7 units + 1 cat into position to attack Kyoto next turn
do some leader fishing with those 4 spears, but no success...
swap Bear's Den to harbor, we need those happy luxes
Zoo swapped to pike, we do need some defense really
start gifting Babs, Germany, Persia and Sumer into the MA and end up with all 3 techs
Russia, Ottoman, Korea and Greece are still useful..but maybe we wait with them to have some headway
also, give engineering to France (but they lack mono) to set them up for invention, they give us 65gold and 7gpt
research set to theology at 24 turns
7.825BC
the final strike for Tokyo, we have 7 units + 1 cat and 3 dromons
bombard reveals 3 spears
AC defeats spear 3/5 reveals archer
AC defeats spear 5/5
AC defeats spear 5/5
AC loses against archer and promotes him 4/5
sword loses against archer 3/5, what the ....
sword wins against archer and
now, Kyoto is mighty unhappy...either we whip a library or starve with max scientists
go for max scientists as this gives us plenty of research power
next is a war against India and I would love to pull in Portugal and Mayan
establish embassies with Maya
get straight peace with Portugal, embassy here as well
without the WH we need to starve in the Zoo temporary until we have 3 MP's back
finally we want India's information
will wait a turn to be able to pull back some units
IT Portugal asks us for an alliance against Rome
find out they are at war
8.800BC
move troops back slowly
it's good to let India fight a little first, before we take over
declare and ally Maya for CoL, they chip in 15 gold
Portugal agrees to MA straight up
IT funny as I see an Indian dingy sink a Mayan galley
however, this will be potentially dangerous as we might end up in the GA
9.775BC
Zoo finishes another pike and goes for maces now
MM so we get 21spt/19spt for maces
Greece has made it into the MA as well now
10.750BC
Bear's Den finally gets a harbor and the happy problem is over there for now
started a pike, but we can debate this
move galleys north, we might get attacked by the Indian dingy in the IT
final comments:
we are currently at 26/29 units, but we do have plenty of cash still
no AI has anything worth...poor AI
remember to alternate 21/19 spt in our capital as it gives us 2 extra commerce
we can pop rush the harbor in Kyoto for 1 pop to solve the happy problem, I recommend that so we can start a library there as well
I kept on employing scientists there and thus, theology is due in 14 (might increase if we stop employing those)
we can also still gift the other sci Civs into th MA, it wanted make sure we get theology alone then get them to go for invention/gunpowder etc
my guess is besides France, Sumer and Persia, nobody else will match that research anyway
somehow 3 of them ended up having all 1st tier techs now, hopefully they research invention and chivalry
checking things out, getting anal about MM..change a tile dromon still in 1 but 1 more coin in the capital
Teo gets the cow..that reminds me to rename the cities
Teo is the Rat Hole and Teno becomes Bear's Den
crank up science and currency in 11 at -8gpt
currently we have 23 units with 22 allowed
1.975BC
Zoo dromon -> sword
Bears Den: library -> spear
time for war, though our units cant reach a spot to land, our dromons could try and bomb the units in the jungle so we have a good place to land
first sell Japan CoL for his 43 gold
IT Sumeria demands philo, ok
2.950BC
the move worked and Japan vacated the jungle tile
we land 6 units there
defeat 2 units outside Rat Hole but lose the e-AC
IT Zulu demand alphabet, ok
Japan does have quite some units that are moved into the jungle and towards Rat Hole
we get another AC
French finish Sun Tzu
3.925BC
sell England philo for some cash
bomb Osaka, wound 2 spears, defeat 2 with AC, now the wounded show up
defeat 2 more spears and we got the city
there are now a total of 9 stranded Japanese units between Rat Hole and Osaka
IT excellent round as the Japanese suicide 4 units without any loss for us
4.900BC
kill 1 spear and archer in the way to Kyoto, but lose a sword
wound every of the 5 spears caught in our land, they won't pose a danger
IT seems they are desperate as the wounded unit pillages our land
5.875BC
defeat 1 of the spears to move forward and invade Japan with 5 units on their way to Kyoto
IT a French dingy and a Dutch galley turn up
6.850BC
Persia finally has currency as well...there goes our research, we would have had it in 4
it's cheap since we did our part already and the best part is, we got feudalism as a freebie
move 7 units + 1 cat into position to attack Kyoto next turn
do some leader fishing with those 4 spears, but no success...
swap Bear's Den to harbor, we need those happy luxes
Zoo swapped to pike, we do need some defense really
start gifting Babs, Germany, Persia and Sumer into the MA and end up with all 3 techs
Russia, Ottoman, Korea and Greece are still useful..but maybe we wait with them to have some headway
also, give engineering to France (but they lack mono) to set them up for invention, they give us 65gold and 7gpt
research set to theology at 24 turns
7.825BC
the final strike for Tokyo, we have 7 units + 1 cat and 3 dromons
bombard reveals 3 spears
AC defeats spear 3/5 reveals archer
AC defeats spear 5/5
AC defeats spear 5/5
AC loses against archer and promotes him 4/5
sword loses against archer 3/5, what the ....
sword wins against archer and
now, Kyoto is mighty unhappy...either we whip a library or starve with max scientists
go for max scientists as this gives us plenty of research power
next is a war against India and I would love to pull in Portugal and Mayan
establish embassies with Maya
get straight peace with Portugal, embassy here as well
without the WH we need to starve in the Zoo temporary until we have 3 MP's back
finally we want India's information
will wait a turn to be able to pull back some units
IT Portugal asks us for an alliance against Rome
find out they are at war
8.800BC
move troops back slowly
it's good to let India fight a little first, before we take over
declare and ally Maya for CoL, they chip in 15 gold
Portugal agrees to MA straight up
IT funny as I see an Indian dingy sink a Mayan galley
however, this will be potentially dangerous as we might end up in the GA
9.775BC
Zoo finishes another pike and goes for maces now
MM so we get 21spt/19spt for maces
Greece has made it into the MA as well now
10.750BC
Bear's Den finally gets a harbor and the happy problem is over there for now
started a pike, but we can debate this
move galleys north, we might get attacked by the Indian dingy in the IT
final comments:
we are currently at 26/29 units, but we do have plenty of cash still
no AI has anything worth...poor AI
remember to alternate 21/19 spt in our capital as it gives us 2 extra commerce
we can pop rush the harbor in Kyoto for 1 pop to solve the happy problem, I recommend that so we can start a library there as well
I kept on employing scientists there and thus, theology is due in 14 (might increase if we stop employing those)
we can also still gift the other sci Civs into th MA, it wanted make sure we get theology alone then get them to go for invention/gunpowder etc
my guess is besides France, Sumer and Persia, nobody else will match that research anyway
somehow 3 of them ended up having all 1st tier techs now, hopefully they research invention and chivalry
ThERat
Deity
for decidedly obsessive people like me 
let's see whether klarius can match that, I guess they know what we have been doing, hope they are scared now
let's see whether klarius can match that, I guess they know what we have been doing, hope they are scared now
Looking good. Nitpicking critique says we should have starved kyoto for 1 turn and 36 beakers, whipped 2 citizens for 39 shields, and starved 1 more turn for 27 beakers. Then repeat with the harbour, to finish at size 6 with library and harbour. If they're going to die from starvation anyway, they may as well be whipped to death.
Looks pretty good though.
Looks pretty good though.
ThERat
Deity
sanabas, are you sure that is correct?
Once you take a city size 12, it will be automatically size 11.
I checked, initially it was 4 pop for whip, thus starved for 11*3 beakers
At size 10, it would have cost us 2 pop to whip, thus down to pop 8...anyway, maybe you a right
we should whip it now for 1 pop (+ 7*3 scientists) and then employ the citizens at size 6.
Once you take a city size 12, it will be automatically size 11.
I checked, initially it was 4 pop for whip, thus starved for 11*3 beakers
At size 10, it would have cost us 2 pop to whip, thus down to pop 8...anyway, maybe you a right
we should whip it now for 1 pop (+ 7*3 scientists) and then employ the citizens at size 6.
Sorry, stuffed up the starting size by 1, and missed 1 starve. Size 11 at capture, next turn gives 33 beakers, down to 10. Whip the library, down to 8. 2nd turn, size 7, 24 beakers, we have the library. Same with the harbour, hopefully without needing to starve at size 4, and we finish at size 4 with library and harbour.
But yeah, if we're going to starve again, better to whip the library or harbour.
But yeah, if we're going to starve again, better to whip the library or harbour.
Nice job ThERat!! It's looking great guys!! Hopefully this will give Klarius and Spooks a little something to think about.
As ThERat said let's be mindful of our commerce. Every nugget counts here.
Does anyone know what the curragh will do if we bombard it? I'd think it would avoid trying to hit our dromons for the early GA if it's at 1 or 2 hps.
I was thinking about this game last night and my thinking is all of the non-scientifics (ex France) should be eliminated. If there's a commercial civ that's showing potential, maybe. Gifting some cities to the scientifics to make them stronger should be a long term goal. What do you guys think?
I haven't calculated it on the whipping but are there any short rush whip opportunities? If Kyoto (new name?) can be whipped for less it would be nice.
Beorn -- 2 cities down
ThERat-- 2 more cities down and we're in the MA.
Smart -- UP
Zerksees--On Deck
Bucephalus --
Whomp--
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
As ThERat said let's be mindful of our commerce. Every nugget counts here.
Does anyone know what the curragh will do if we bombard it? I'd think it would avoid trying to hit our dromons for the early GA if it's at 1 or 2 hps.
I was thinking about this game last night and my thinking is all of the non-scientifics (ex France) should be eliminated. If there's a commercial civ that's showing potential, maybe. Gifting some cities to the scientifics to make them stronger should be a long term goal. What do you guys think?
I haven't calculated it on the whipping but are there any short rush whip opportunities? If Kyoto (new name?) can be whipped for less it would be nice.
Beorn -- 2 cities down
ThERat-- 2 more cities down and we're in the MA.
Smart -- UP
Zerksees--On Deck
Bucephalus --
Whomp--
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
ThERat
Deity
I agree with eliminating those useless Civs.
I would take India and Maya/Inca in alternating wars, trying to free up some land for Ottoman for their settler. Portugal is also pretty useless and could be ours. On the same landmass is Spain and Korea and we should help Korea take over Spain.
Likewise, Egypt's capital looks yummy with the gems there. The other Egyptian city and the rest of the continent should go to Persia. We should look for such opportunities.
As for the curragh, if it attacks us, we end up having our GA. I would go hen for max theology and education and start some uni-prebuilds at the end before we get education. I guess we should go for astro after education and try and get copernicus in our capital.
As for Kyoto, I would immediately whip the harbor there and then build the library by hand.
I would take India and Maya/Inca in alternating wars, trying to free up some land for Ottoman for their settler. Portugal is also pretty useless and could be ours. On the same landmass is Spain and Korea and we should help Korea take over Spain.
Likewise, Egypt's capital looks yummy with the gems there. The other Egyptian city and the rest of the continent should go to Persia. We should look for such opportunities.
As for the curragh, if it attacks us, we end up having our GA. I would go hen for max theology and education and start some uni-prebuilds at the end before we get education. I guess we should go for astro after education and try and get copernicus in our capital.
As for Kyoto, I would immediately whip the harbor there and then build the library by hand.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
You're the best 
If we bomb the dingy once, it will lose up to 2 HP, will not die, will not give GA, and it will go heal.
For kyoto, I would finish these 5 turns of harbor by hand, put in one turn of lib and whip for 2 pop. We could call it Lion Training, in honor of the whipping.
Thebes for us, rest for Persia, we already have a friend in there don't we? He'll agree to it.
So incas for the ottomans, spain for korea, egypt and mongols for persia, grab the rest for ourselves.
If we bomb the dingy once, it will lose up to 2 HP, will not die, will not give GA, and it will go heal.
For kyoto, I would finish these 5 turns of harbor by hand, put in one turn of lib and whip for 2 pop. We could call it Lion Training, in honor of the whipping.
Thebes for us, rest for Persia, we already have a friend in there don't we? He'll agree to it.
So incas for the ottomans, spain for korea, egypt and mongols for persia, grab the rest for ourselves.
zerksees
in remission
Nice work! You guys are making this look easy.
Are the citizens unhappy because Tokugawa was whipping them to build things, or are they just resisting? Simple resistance should be put down with MPs. Might stall our advance a few turns but I hate to lose that population, and whipping will give us problems "not forgiving the cruel oppression we have borne upon them" for the rest of the game. If you whip anything its the harbor so our other luxes can make it there, but even that I would wait on. Later we can whip the corrupt outlying cities, not these prime cities.
I wonder if we can have a city build a settler at size 2 - you know the trick where you convert a city to a settler so it can be moved? It's a longshot.
How soon until it is possible for Ottoman to bring us a city? Maybe we should set up embassy with them to see if they still have that settler. A new city NW of Kyoto would be really good.
I agree with Beorn on the dinky boats - bombard them once so they go home to heal and buy us some time.
Also with all that open land west of Kyoto, won't we get some barbs showing up?
sanabas you are the king of MM - great observations You'll have to have some patience with me when the time comes.
Are the citizens unhappy because Tokugawa was whipping them to build things, or are they just resisting? Simple resistance should be put down with MPs. Might stall our advance a few turns but I hate to lose that population, and whipping will give us problems "not forgiving the cruel oppression we have borne upon them" for the rest of the game. If you whip anything its the harbor so our other luxes can make it there, but even that I would wait on. Later we can whip the corrupt outlying cities, not these prime cities.
I wonder if we can have a city build a settler at size 2 - you know the trick where you convert a city to a settler so it can be moved? It's a longshot.
How soon until it is possible for Ottoman to bring us a city? Maybe we should set up embassy with them to see if they still have that settler. A new city NW of Kyoto would be really good.
I agree with Beorn on the dinky boats - bombard them once so they go home to heal and buy us some time.
Also with all that open land west of Kyoto, won't we get some barbs showing up?
sanabas you are the king of MM - great observations
You'll have to have some patience with me when the time comes.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
lurker's comment: Whipping unhappiness fades over time correct?
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