Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I think we would need the majority of the map secured, maxed for food and beaker farming. This could be a long term plan. At the rate of our conquests, it does seem plausible.
SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
One thing that concerns me a bit is Portugal. We have a skeleton crew in India and no roads from Maya. They know the hittites and if we have another war with China and a real war with Inca we might be at risk with them.
I'd like to draw them into the fray and Inca seems to be the most logical. The Ports will be moving out in the open (no roads) and probably can't reach the Incans (and maybe Maya) before that war's over. Later, there might be an opportunity to hit them while the majority of their units are on open ground.
Thoughts?
I'd like to draw them into the fray and Inca seems to be the most logical. The Ports will be moving out in the open (no roads) and probably can't reach the Incans (and maybe Maya) before that war's over. Later, there might be an opportunity to hit them while the majority of their units are on open ground.
Thoughts?
zerksees
in remission
I was definitely thinking long term. If I can get agreement that this is a viable long term goal then it feeds my need to make war and crush the AI
except of course the ones we let live 
To me most civ games are crushing the AI first then figuring out how to win. I'm asking you guys since maybe your approach is a little less slanted towards war.
What is a majority of the map - 31-32 cities? Then have two AI with 10 cities each and 5 with 2 each?
edit - cross post. Sounds like a safe hedge Whomp - I say go for it.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Very sensible indeed, once the incas are down, we will have portuguese target practice in the open from Lisbon to Mayan plains.
ThERat
Deity
I had to laugh about this, we are consistently fighting and taking out AI's, every turnset one Civ almost.
I agree we need far more of the map and science farms etc, unis in all our core cities, Copernicus and Newton in the capital, Smith maybe in the FP city.
I'd like to have Persia as some sort of capable AI to get us some techs (few though it would be). We got invention and hopefully gunpowder and chivalry. I guess we can't expect that much more from them in this age.
In terms of conquest I would go:
Inca -> Portugal -> Egypt
Then, we have to see as targets would be further away. I would first go for those Islands with 2 nations to let them slog it out and we take over the Island after that. We could later take on America versus Vikings, then let France and Viking fight and then we take out Viking and France. For that, we would need some armies, I guess. France would be a major piece of the pie.
whomp, I don't think Portugal has any iron, we shouldn't have an issue to take them out unless we lose a lot of units against Inca. Our ACav's should rock on flat land against their spears/horses. I would only sign them in, if they agree for free.
ThERat
Deity
guys, did you see he latest update from Team Ivan. they have overtaken us in terms of land...seems they will put up some credible opposition.
So, let's follow them and take more ourselves.
So, let's follow them and take more ourselves.
zerksees
in remission
Yes, but when to stop? I'd stop when the AI has one hopeless city. I doubt that is the fastest way to win though. I'm fishing for an idea when we are going to put the brakes on.
BTW pretty soon we'll have astronomy which means caravels and not too soon after we'll get galleons. With galleons a full army can go by boat. Maybe we can leader farm on Portugal after Inca are gone if they MA with us now.
Thinking about Smiths - should we bother to research the tech for Smiths or wait for an AI to come up with it? Isn't that an optional tech?
ThERat
Deity
it would be nice to let the AI research that. However, we can't time a prebuild then. Paris can snatch almost any wonder unless we have a good prebuild.
So, if we don't mind taking out Paris, then we might want to skip economics. We need some optional tech though to be able to get that IA gamble for a 2 tier free tech going.
So, if we don't mind taking out Paris, then we might want to skip economics. We need some optional tech though to be able to get that IA gamble for a 2 tier free tech going.
MM the Zoo to 23spt and science in two along with a uni prebuild. Move a citizen in Bombay and lib is due in 5. I can't get the Arabs to budge on monarchy for currency, lit all our gold and 7gpt. They'll do the deal for 425g and 14gpt. No dice. Check online. Duh.
Gift currency to the Arabs. Then trade lit, engineering and 40g for monarchy.
Trade theo and monarchy for invention with France.
Gift it to Korea,
Russia for 3g
Sumeria for 6g
Bismarck for 2g
Mistakenly give it to Persia.
Sorry.
Babs for 1g
Establish a embassy in Mongolia (north of Hits) for 43g.
Then Dutch for 68g then Persians for 43g. They're ready now with pikes in the capital. I think we'll bring them in right away and join the other two.
Sell philo for 10g to Hits and declare on them.
Buy Dutch in for lit. Mongols for their 2g in exchange philo and lit. Decide the Persians are ready with Pikes and two friend on each side going at them. Monarchy and 108g gets them in the game.
Hit enter. Phew.
IT Ports run some units through our territory. Grr.
Russians, Germans, Sumerians start Leo's.
French Sistines
310 BC Starve Copan and Chichen to finish education. MM Osaka to take a turn off the market. Due in two. Wool comes available through France and as you can see they have theo. Dang. The Hittites lost their iron colony.
IT education comes in.
290 Stop here since I got a late start. Sorry Buce. The Otto settler is on the move and I'm ready to declare on the Incans. I forgot to look at the Hittites situation.
Establish a Greek embassy 93g and the capital is starving. They must be at war and pillaged. They are with Cartho. Establish a embassy with Cartho for 38g. We need to save the Greek and start a war between Cartho and China. Declare on China and buy in the Carthos for their 25g and our currency so they can possibly build a market at some point.
Trade Spain currency for 2g and their worker.
Declare on Incans and the Ports will pay us their 3g to fight. Ok done. Take hill with our elite AC and it redlines taking a horse. (1-0)
IT A pike retreats a pike and another pike loses to a sword protecting our stack on a hill.
Korea starts Leo's. Babs and Vikings Hanging Gardens (1-1). The Ports don't come down the fight.
270 Bombard the incursion. Take horse with elite sword, 2/4 sword with AC, redline AC taking 2/4 spear, promote 6/6 AC taking archer, 2 AC's take vet and reg spear, MI takes a warrior. This leaves vet archer, 2/4 spear and 2/5 sword on different tiles. (8-1)
Trade monarchy to Egypt for 16g and Rome for 9g.
Trade engineering to the Dutch for 39g and 6gpt.
IT Carths ask for a MA vs. Greece and then make peace with them. Phew.
Man that was a bad round. Lose a pike to a flawless sword, archer takes our elite sword but promote a MI versus 2/5 sword. (9-3)
Persia and Rome Hanging Gardens.
250 Elite AC is flawless taking bombarded 3/5 sword. (10-3). Decide to hold off on some others.
Establish embassy with Iroquois for 54g so they can fight the Chinese too. Give them currency to start it up.
IT Take a sword with a MI on a mountain and he promotes. (11-3) Start a prebuild for Cops.
230 Take a spear and archer with AC's (13-3). Drop off two new units. A gpt deal must've come off since we went from positive gpt to negative. Grab a worker and 1g from Korea for mono. Great news!! The Persians have taken Tarsus from the Hittites.
and
IT The Ports finally move some units out.
210 Take one 3/4 spear but retreat two other ACs against 2/4 spears. Crap.
Two MIs take two spears approaching our rear. (16-3). We can sell education to France for 32g and 26gpt. Done.
IT Sweet!! The rampaging Persians have destroyed the Hittites.
190 Sheesh I bombard two vet spears to 2/4 and our vet AC retreats to a reg spear without damage then lose a second.. Try to leader fish with a MI elite (17-4). Move 3 healthy AC's next to the capital.
Persians will trade gpt for theo but we don't need it from the scientifics with France giving us positive gpt. The Dutch are different though. Sell him mono for 15g and 2gpt.
IT Paris finishes Leo's and the Ports are finally on their way.
170 Crap miss on both dromons and 3 of 4 buchets. I'm going to have to wait a turn. Sheesh. The top four gold holders are scientifics but we do trade Monotheism to Arabs for 3gpt and 31g and Scandanavians for 6gpt and 12g. We need another war on that continent but we'll let the Persians rest a minute. Declare on Egypt and MA Dutch with theo.
IT lose another pike to an archer. (17-5). Persians finish Hanging Gardens.
150 Hit with bombard and take 3 spears and sword but lose an elite. (21-6) It leaves one redlined sword.
Summary I'm not a 100% on our pre build since the French are building Sistines in Orleans. We'll lose about 0-4 turns if we have to bail and swap to a cathedral. Astro is due in 8. Not a great warmongering round.
I'd let the Port horses through and then start the irrigation. The spears may move back a for a turn but then the path will be clear again.
Here's a look at the Incans. They're finally finished.
The Save
Gift currency to the Arabs. Then trade lit, engineering and 40g for monarchy.
Trade theo and monarchy for invention with France.
Gift it to Korea,
Russia for 3g
Sumeria for 6g
Bismarck for 2g
Mistakenly give it to Persia.
Sorry. Babs for 1g
Establish a embassy in Mongolia (north of Hits) for 43g.
Then Dutch for 68g then Persians for 43g. They're ready now with pikes in the capital. I think we'll bring them in right away and join the other two.
Sell philo for 10g to Hits and declare on them.
Buy Dutch in for lit. Mongols for their 2g in exchange philo and lit. Decide the Persians are ready with Pikes and two friend on each side going at them. Monarchy and 108g gets them in the game.
Hit enter. Phew.
IT Ports run some units through our territory. Grr.
Russians, Germans, Sumerians start Leo's.
French Sistines
310 BC Starve Copan and Chichen to finish education. MM Osaka to take a turn off the market. Due in two. Wool comes available through France and as you can see they have theo. Dang. The Hittites lost their iron colony.
IT education comes in.
290 Stop here since I got a late start. Sorry Buce. The Otto settler is on the move and I'm ready to declare on the Incans. I forgot to look at the Hittites situation.
Establish a Greek embassy 93g and the capital is starving. They must be at war and pillaged. They are with Cartho. Establish a embassy with Cartho for 38g. We need to save the Greek and start a war between Cartho and China. Declare on China and buy in the Carthos for their 25g and our currency so they can possibly build a market at some point.
Trade Spain currency for 2g and their worker.
Declare on Incans and the Ports will pay us their 3g to fight. Ok done. Take hill with our elite AC and it redlines taking a horse. (1-0)
IT A pike retreats a pike and another pike loses to a sword protecting our stack on a hill.
Korea starts Leo's. Babs and Vikings Hanging Gardens (1-1). The Ports don't come down the fight.
270 Bombard the incursion. Take horse with elite sword, 2/4 sword with AC, redline AC taking 2/4 spear, promote 6/6 AC taking archer, 2 AC's take vet and reg spear, MI takes a warrior. This leaves vet archer, 2/4 spear and 2/5 sword on different tiles. (8-1)
Trade monarchy to Egypt for 16g and Rome for 9g.
Trade engineering to the Dutch for 39g and 6gpt.
IT Carths ask for a MA vs. Greece and then make peace with them. Phew.
Man that was a bad round. Lose a pike to a flawless sword, archer takes our elite sword but promote a MI versus 2/5 sword. (9-3)
Persia and Rome Hanging Gardens.
250 Elite AC is flawless taking bombarded 3/5 sword. (10-3). Decide to hold off on some others.
Establish embassy with Iroquois for 54g so they can fight the Chinese too. Give them currency to start it up.
IT Take a sword with a MI on a mountain and he promotes. (11-3) Start a prebuild for Cops.
230 Take a spear and archer with AC's (13-3). Drop off two new units. A gpt deal must've come off since we went from positive gpt to negative. Grab a worker and 1g from Korea for mono. Great news!! The Persians have taken Tarsus from the Hittites.
and
IT The Ports finally move some units out.
210 Take one 3/4 spear but retreat two other ACs against 2/4 spears. Crap.
Two MIs take two spears approaching our rear. (16-3). We can sell education to France for 32g and 26gpt. Done.
IT Sweet!! The rampaging Persians have destroyed the Hittites.
190 Sheesh I bombard two vet spears to 2/4 and our vet AC retreats to a reg spear without damage then lose a second.. Try to leader fish with a MI elite (17-4). Move 3 healthy AC's next to the capital.
Persians will trade gpt for theo but we don't need it from the scientifics with France giving us positive gpt. The Dutch are different though. Sell him mono for 15g and 2gpt.
IT Paris finishes Leo's and the Ports are finally on their way.
170 Crap miss on both dromons and 3 of 4 buchets. I'm going to have to wait a turn. Sheesh. The top four gold holders are scientifics but we do trade Monotheism to Arabs for 3gpt and 31g and Scandanavians for 6gpt and 12g. We need another war on that continent but we'll let the Persians rest a minute. Declare on Egypt and MA Dutch with theo.
IT lose another pike to an archer. (17-5). Persians finish Hanging Gardens.
150 Hit with bombard and take 3 spears and sword but lose an elite. (21-6) It leaves one redlined sword.
Summary I'm not a 100% on our pre build since the French are building Sistines in Orleans. We'll lose about 0-4 turns if we have to bail and swap to a cathedral. Astro is due in 8. Not a great warmongering round.
I'd let the Port horses through and then start the irrigation. The spears may move back a for a turn but then the path will be clear again.
Here's a look at the Incans. They're finally finished.
The Save
zerksees
in remission
I knew the Inca would be tough. Good work though as we should be able to take them out soon.
So much for the Ottomans helping us out with their extra city.
So much for the Ottomans helping us out with their extra city.
ThERat
Deity
great news on Persia taking out Hittites, do they now have 4 cities? We can't go for war with Nertherlands now due to the gpt payments.
Maybe we could give the Persians a short break and then ask them to attack Mongols with the help of the Dutch?
Their free units support could give us some gpt for our research. We paid the price for not asking Ottoman to join I guess, plenty of units with bad RnG. But, you made it and we can take over Incas now.
On another note, we might as well take Ottoman's capital and exile them on their useless Island. I guess their capital is worth more for us than their research. Any opinion?
edit: had a quick look at the save, I would let Bombay finish a court before anything else, it's really too corrupt
and great news, Team Klarius does seem to have issues following our expansion
Maybe we could give the Persians a short break and then ask them to attack Mongols with the help of the Dutch?
Their free units support could give us some gpt for our research. We paid the price for not asking Ottoman to join I guess, plenty of units with bad RnG. But, you made it and we can take over Incas now.
On another note, we might as well take Ottoman's capital and exile them on their useless Island. I guess their capital is worth more for us than their research. Any opinion?
edit: had a quick look at the save, I would let Bombay finish a court before anything else, it's really too corrupt
and great news, Team Klarius does seem to have issues following our expansion
ThERat
Deity
by the way, we should not give Persia education to sign them in another war. keep that tech for potentially chivalry or gunpowder
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
If they are down to one city for all practical purposes, exile is the way to go. We only need them to lower the cost of new age techs and give insurance of fission.
Nice progress, we are still climbing. I'll take the wild guess that Ivan has started by the indiand land and had an easier time coming through it with a few pre-engineered wars. We should come back up on top with Istanbul, Lisbon and their backyards.
Nice progress, we are still climbing. I'll take the wild guess that Ivan has started by the indiand land and had an easier time coming through it with a few pre-engineered wars. We should come back up on top with Istanbul, Lisbon and their backyards.
Persians do have four cities. 
Since we can't get the FP up yet a court in Bombay makes a lot of sense. The city will have lots of potential.
The Dutch are paying us gpt I figured we'd get them in a fight versus Egypt and anyone else we need to whack on the continent over the next 20 turns. If there's a way to bring Persia into that fight without trading that would be great. We may want to get the Arabs involved too. What about wars on the two civ islands? Quelling the field seems to really help gpt.
I agree the Ottomans won't be much of a factor in this game and we should take out Istanbul with it's harbor.
I'm a little concerned with the prebuild. We don't know how big Orleans is but the Sistines build started 10 turns ago and requires ~300s (for deity AI?) Hopefully we can make some scientists in Cuzco to help speed up astro in 8. A cathedral would be the most expensive prebuild but would be due in 4. Should we put the city on 100% commerce tiles to slow it down?
There's two choke points that we need to beat the slow moving Ports to. The next tile which can be irrigated in one turn and then the third tile north of Chichen (btw should we rename the cities?). Hopefully their units will continue south because that looks like their whole army. Our fast units can get to Portugal faster than theirs can go home so it would be awesome to see them disappear as we take their last city.
If we can manipulate the commercial civs for gpt by giving currency it might be worthwhile.
Since we can't get the FP up yet a court in Bombay makes a lot of sense. The city will have lots of potential.The Dutch are paying us gpt I figured we'd get them in a fight versus Egypt and anyone else we need to whack on the continent over the next 20 turns. If there's a way to bring Persia into that fight without trading that would be great. We may want to get the Arabs involved too. What about wars on the two civ islands? Quelling the field seems to really help gpt.
I agree the Ottomans won't be much of a factor in this game and we should take out Istanbul with it's harbor.
I'm a little concerned with the prebuild. We don't know how big Orleans is but the Sistines build started 10 turns ago and requires ~300s (for deity AI?) Hopefully we can make some scientists in Cuzco to help speed up astro in 8. A cathedral would be the most expensive prebuild but would be due in 4. Should we put the city on 100% commerce tiles to slow it down?
There's two choke points that we need to beat the slow moving Ports to. The next tile which can be irrigated in one turn and then the third tile north of Chichen (btw should we rename the cities?). Hopefully their units will continue south because that looks like their whole army. Our fast units can get to Portugal faster than theirs can go home so it would be awesome to see them disappear as we take their last city.
If we can manipulate the commercial civs for gpt by giving currency it might be worthwhile.
eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: Sistine for Deity AI = 600*.6 = 360 shields. Is there cash to investigate Orleans? Do we even know where it is to be able to investigate it?
I doubt it. I looked and since we can't see the city (still in the darkness) the only thing we could do is establish an embassy in Paris to see if we can uncover some tiles.
How much are the wool tiles worth in shields? I'd presume both cities are size 12 already and they have 18 wool tiles hooked up. If it's more than 20spt then we're literally on the border of losing the prebuild so we should slow it down considerably with a cathedral and try to accelerate astro the best we can.
How much are the wool tiles worth in shields? I'd presume both cities are size 12 already and they have 18 wool tiles hooked up. If it's more than 20spt then we're literally on the border of losing the prebuild so we should slow it down considerably with a cathedral and try to accelerate astro the best we can.
zerksees
in remission
Maybe we should sign up Ottomans now against Inca? I thought I was advocating them joining us all along but I apparently forgot to write it here. Aren't you psychic?
Not sure what to do on the prebuild. I agree with eldar we should check on their city if we can find it/investigate it. We could always cut our losses, build the cathedral, then start another prebuild with less to lose. I'd say no wars for France until we switch over. Maybe they have a few taxmen and I don't want them working tiles and making more shields.
All the other fake wars were great! We should keep in mind that these AI will occasionally need to purge their excess units to keep up the science rate so having fodder on their landmass for later use might also be helpful.
Who is on the other side of Korea? Is that America? Should we get something started there to help Korea's efforts to acquire those light blue cities?
Not sure what to do on the prebuild. I agree with eldar we should check on their city if we can find it/investigate it. We could always cut our losses, build the cathedral, then start another prebuild with less to lose. I'd say no wars for France until we switch over. Maybe they have a few taxmen and I don't want them working tiles and making more shields.
All the other fake wars were great! We should keep in mind that these AI will occasionally need to purge their excess units to keep up the science rate so having fodder on their landmass for later use might also be helpful.
Who is on the other side of Korea? Is that America? Should we get something started there to help Korea's efforts to acquire those light blue cities?
Korea is on the other side of Portugal.
I didn't declare on the Ottomans since we could use at least one of the spice tiles which the Incans and Ottomans control. The upside of MA'ing the Ottos is they will waste units. The downside is they may take the spice city and we'd have to take it back with more units to fight. Really the Ottos should be a pushover either way since their best units are archers and spears.
I think we can manage the prebuild if we slow down our shield output to coordinate with a slower cathedral build and our astro research. Going into disorder seems exploitive and I'd rather avoid it if possible.
I think we should consider formenting wars on all the islands in some form and focus on alliances with the scientifics and commericials. We'd need to be careful of the tech deals I made though so be careful with those civs.
I didn't declare on the Ottomans since we could use at least one of the spice tiles which the Incans and Ottomans control. The upside of MA'ing the Ottos is they will waste units. The downside is they may take the spice city and we'd have to take it back with more units to fight. Really the Ottos should be a pushover either way since their best units are archers and spears.
I think we can manage the prebuild if we slow down our shield output to coordinate with a slower cathedral build and our astro research. Going into disorder seems exploitive and I'd rather avoid it if possible.
I think we should consider formenting wars on all the islands in some form and focus on alliances with the scientifics and commericials. We'd need to be careful of the tech deals I made though so be careful with those civs.
zerksees
in remission
Yes and berzerksees would whack them in a second! But they apparently have some value as scientific. Either they need to be killed or nurtured I guess.Korea is on the other side of Portugal.
To me it goes without saying that we are going to take Istanbul from Ottomans shortly after the Inca are dead. So if they take the other Inca city for a turn or two its no big deal. Since they put their settler on that cruddy little island they are not going to amount to more than a chance to get us a free tech at the age change. So I see a benefit in putting them against the Inca as they might lose a few units and keep the Inca from reinforcing Cuzco.
Bucephalus you are up.
(btw if I had read ThERat's comments about that little island beforehand, I might have advocated blocking it by putting some units on that island. But the problem is there are other cruddy islands they would have also found. Argh. I wasted too much time obsessing over that settler)
