SGOTM 12 - X-Nuts

[civ_steve]

Ok, here's the turn log:

Turn Log
Review the situation; looks fairly good; go through the list of AI, and be sure to gift a resource or a Tech to any that aren't pleased

(IBT - Ragnor wants MPP and ROP, we renogotiate for ROP only
India renews 3 gpt for Wool)

Turn 1, 1585 AD
We learn Combustion, next Mass Prod in 6 (we'll see if we can shave a turn off Flight at 7 later)
We lost Spices, so trade Econ and Ivory to Spain for it
Pop a Courthouse at Thebes

Turn 2, 1590 AD
Courthouse at Thebes, and some MMing there drops a turn off Mass Prod, now in 4
Mining at Amsterdam has dropped a turn off Coal plant, now in 2
Start some unit production for disbanding purposes
Stock Exchange in Pasargadae makes our 5th; switch Const to Wall Street, will finish next turn

Turn 3, 1595 AD
Transport Knight Army over, and disband at Babylon to finish University

Turn 4, 1600 AD
Babylon gets its University, and Amsterdam a Coal Plant (next, Hoover's Dam)
With mining, up to just over 50 usable shields (manage to cut it from 16 to 15 turns, which is still longer than our research (I think))

Turn 5, 1605 AD
Mass Prod in 1, so turn down Res% to 90, still in 1
Rats, Amsterdam is experiencing more Waste, so it lost some shields. Was generating 54 usable shields, now down to 48 useable shields, and Hoover's is back up to 16 more turns, with 1 turn done. Add a defender to (hopefully) generate WLTKD. Working on mining a mountain for more shields, and will definitely consider losing Washington.

Turn 6, 1610 AD
Mass Prod is learned, next is Motor Transp, 5 turns at 100%, not likely to cut it to 4 turns
WLTKD, and mining a Mountain has Amsterdam at 33 initial shields, 61 prod generating 56 usable; cut the Waste from 7 to 6 shields. Hoover's is in 13 turns, and MT's 5 turns plus Flight's 7 gives 12. I hope to cut a turn off Flight, so can 2 turns be cut off of Hoovers?

Mine an irrigated Grassland near Amsterdam - down to 12 turns, with -2fpt

Commercial Docks start going up everywhere - extra commerce for our coastal cities

Turn 7, 1615 AD
First Commercial Docks come in; Flight is down to 6 turns; still 4 for MT
Ack, we lot WLTKD at Amsterdam ( down to 54 shields); I'll irrigate the space back

Turn 8, 1620 AD
Renew Furs deal with Iroquois
Back to 58 spt at Amsterdam, HD in 11, but ModEra in 9

Turn 9, 1625 AD
Not much. 2 turn lag at Hoover's plus 4 turns in Mod Era; I'm mining all the extra spaces around Amsterdam - we may be able to go to high production with Starvation to cut a turn off

Remining around Paris - in case we want to do the high shield bit with Paris as backup to Amsterdam

Turn 10, 1630 AD
MT in 1, set Res% to 60%; still in 1 and gaining 400 gpt.

End of Log

The deal giving Silks to India has just expired. If we want to get rid of Washington, this is the time to do it, but I thought I'd leave that topic open to discussion, and to the next player.

I'd gift Washington to somebody, and try to trade right away for the Silks, to give us our 8th luxury resource.

Amsterdam is 2 turns behind our research (we enter the ModEra in 7 turns, but we complete HD in 9). So we might need 6 turns in the Modern Era for Amsterdam; possibly going to 5 turns if there's some shield overlap to give us more shields. We might be able to shave a turn off by occupying more shield producing spaces and incurring starvation, but we'd lose WLTKD. Something for the next player to think about.

I was remining Paris, and at 5 turns in the ModEra, it might be the unit to go to. And, this is a nice back-up to Amsterdam so we should pack it up, and have it starting building MilAcad.


1630 AD Save

 

[leif erikson]

A lot of nice MM Steve.

Shield production sounds like a bouncing ball.

Roster:
Leif - Up
AVN - On Deck
Bluebox
Denyd
Gator
Mathilda
Civ_steve - just played!

The Modern Era seems to be coming very fast all of a sudden?

Good idea with Paris, always nice to have a backup plan.

Please help me remember, once we build the UN, we have to wait for 10 turns before there can be a vote? So we have a bit of time to get things set up.

I'll try to have a look later. I'm currently up in Civ4 SGOTM04, so if someone has time and wants to take it, that is fine with me.

 

[AVN]

Nice turnset steve

I can play tomorrow (got it). That will also give us some time to discuss things.

1) Checked Amsterdam. It has 332 shields in the box and can finish UN in 12 turns with the 58 she's producing now. However I don't think that number can be improved much, although I can try with gifting Washington.

Paris can be used as a backup (with a prebuild of Military Academy). Atm we have Fission we can check where the UN will be finished fastest and build it there.

2) AFAIK our opponent in the vote will be the country which is 2nd in population or territory (not clear for me which is more important). But by giving our opponent sufficient territory (before we declare) we can determine who will be our opponent. Atm the number 2's are Hittites and Arabia.
IMHO we should choose one of them and make sure that it becomes 2nd, both in population and territory.

3) I don't know when we will have the vote, but Mathilda told me that the vote is in the same turn as we build the UN. Quite different from leif's experience. I'm wondering now, who to believe ?

Hope someone can give the answer on this.

4) Relations with other nations are already improved, but I still like to improve them a little bit more. However I think it's better to stop trading luxuries, resources, so that we are able to gift cities to our opponent, without breaking trade deals.

Ok, my 2 cents. Comments are welcome

 

[AVN]

Just checked with a testgame.
The vote is in the same year as the UN build is finished.

So in 11-12 turns the game should be finished !!

 

[leif erikson]

Just checked with a testgame.
The vote is in the same year as the UN build is finished.

So in 11-12 turns the game should be finished !!

Thanks for the answer.

I'm thinking it might be best to set up Arabia. If the UN is built in Amsterdam, the Hittites are too close in case something happens.

 

[civ_steve]

Arabia or the Iroquois might be good choices; we might not have enough time to disentangle all the agreements we have with them if we want to start a war and sign up some MA's. Perhaps we see if general good will from lots of gifting is sufficient to carry the day.

We probably want to make a deal for silks to keep our 8th luxury (keeps science high with no Lux%, and keeps WLTED's on-going, important for now at Amsterdam). So whoever we gift Washington to (if we gift Washington), we'd probably like to trade for silks with them.

About the time we enter the ModEra, and assuming we get Fission for free, Science is no longer an issue. I'd suggest gifting Orleans as well to reduce the rank of the other cities (try to get a few more shields out of Amsterdam).

This does call in to mind the Rank Corruption Bug, but I believe that doesn't apply in C3C because Rank is always in relation to the Palace alone (not the FP). Does that sound correct? Otherwise we'd already be in violation.

And who's next? I see leif posting a "leif's up" and AVN posting a 'got-it'.

 

[leif erikson]

This does call in to mind the Rank Corruption Bug, but I believe that doesn't apply in C3C because Rank is always in relation to the Palace alone (not the FP). Does that sound correct? Otherwise we'd already be in violation.

I believe this is correct. The rank corruption bug was, sort of, fixed in C3C?

And who's next? I see leif posting a "leif's up" and AVN posting a 'got-it'.

AVN has some time this weekend and I don't, at least not until Monday or so. I've swapped with AVN.

So a roster change is in order:
AVN - UP
Leif - On Deck
Bluebox
Denyd
Gator
Mathilda
Civ_steve

And AVN, if you are within a turn or two, please feel free to complete all the way to UN construction and the first attempt at a win.

 

[AVN]

I'm thinking it might be best to set up Arabia. If the UN is built in Amsterdam, the Hittites are too close in case something happens.

I prefer Arabia as opponent too

This does call in to mind the Rank Corruption Bug, but I believe that doesn't apply in C3C because Rank is always in relation to the Palace alone (not the FP). Does that sound correct? Otherwise we'd already be in violation.

The rank corruption bug is a PTW-vanilla thing. In C3C rank is always calculated in relation with the Palace and that "solved" the bug.

So I agree with leif that we haven't violated any rule with the palace jump.

 

[leif erikson]

Good luck AVN!!

 

[AVN]

The 1685 AD save

Turnlog :

Turn 0 - 1630 AD
Decide to gift Washington to the Celts, to reduce corruption in Amsterdam.
Remove infantry from Washington and gift the city.

We buy the silks from him for Metallurgy. Unfortunately he stays annoyed.

IBT :
Korea offers 3 gpt for wines. We try to sell him wool instead, but he doesn't like that. So no deal.

Motorized Transportation discovered. Continue with Flight in 6 (at 100%).
We get infantry in Paris and Pasargaede and a commercial dock in Kyoto.

Production in Amsterdam is 60 now (from 58). Hoover went from 9 to 7 turns in the interturn.

Turn 1 - 1635 AD
Mine some more tiles around Paris to improve production there.

Gift some techs around, but unfortunately is doesn't improve attitudes

IBT : Paris and Orleans get some infantry.

Turn 2 - 1640 AD
Nothing.

IBT :

India offers 6 gpt for saltpeter. We try to negotiate, but everything is refused. Hittites cancels gems deal. He's annoyed now.

Constantinople and Paris get infantry and Paris starts building Military Aademy.

Turn 3 - 1645 AD
All tiles around Paris are mined now. It gives the maximum of 122 shields a turn, with some food shortage. But temporary that's no problem.

Buy Espionage from Korea for Electricity and Communism from Russia for Steel.
Give again some AI's a tech, but again no improvement in attitude of them.

Giving wool to England and Rome works better. England is now polite and Rome cautious.

IBT : Korea wants our gems for 4 gpt. We try to negotiate, but again no results.

Turn 4 - 1650 AD
Gift wool to Zulu (-> polite), but again other gifts don't work.
Even gifting money gives no improvement. Of course after giving money we sell a tech to them for the same amount (or more) as we gifted them.

IBT : Tenochtitlan gets infantry.

Turn 5 - 1655 AD
We suddenly don't get silks anymore and after investigation it appears that the Celts have lost their harbor in Washington, so the trade route doesn't exist anymore.

But that results in unhappy citizens in Amsterdam and that's something which can't be used (will end WLTKD and delay production of Hoover/UN).

We can still research Flight in 2 with 80% science and 20% lux, but that's not enough to make everybody at least content in Amsterdam. And 70% science gives Flight in 3.

Luckily Feudalism allows 3 MP's in a city and there are only 2. Another MP is found and add to the city, so Amsterdam will keep it's WLTKD

IBT : Korea offers 2 gpt for Ivory. Again we try to negotiate, but again no deal.

Turn 6 - 1660 AD

Some more gifting, but the results are again disappointing.

IBT :
We discover Flight.
Gift Korea into the next age. Gets Rocketry.
Try to buy it, but no deal is possible.

Gift Germany. Gets Rocketry.
Try to buy it, again no deal.

Gift Ottomans. Gets Ecology.
Try to buy it. No success.

Gift Sumeria. Gets Ecology.
Try to buy it. Doesn't want to trade too.

Gift Russia. Gets Rocketry.
Try to buy it. But the answer is again no.

We are quite unlucky here. Only 2 of the 4 techs are discovered (so even if we could buy them, there is no guarantee that we will get Fission for free).

But no one wants to trade with us. Techs (Communism), luxuries, resources, all our money (1970 gold) and gpt (768) aren't enough (even combined) to get one tech.

The only thing our advisor says is "They would never accept such a deal".
Clearly our trade rep is broken

I put research to Fission and change the prebuild in Paris to the Intelligence Agency.

Then we get the question what we will research next.
We have received Fission as free tech

Amsterdam can build the UN in 5, Paris can do it in 6. So we change Hoovers in Amsterdam in the UN. (Amsterdam did get some bonus shields from Uranium).

Paris gets the Inelligence Agency and Amsterdam gets pollution.

Turn 7 - 1665 AD
Clean pollution in Amsterdam (is a big problem BTW in Constantinople and on Japan/Aztec island. Don't have enough workers there for cleaning).

Buy Rocketry (Korea) and Ecology (Ottomans).

Research Computers in 50 (single scientist). Research 0%, Lux 20%.

IBT - Kyoto builds a tank (for denyd )

Turn 8 - 1670 AD
Start evacuating troops from Japan/Aztec island so that we can safely gift those cities to Arabia. They are atm 2nd in population and territory, but I want to be sure that they will be that too, when we have the vote.

IBT : Arabia offers 5 gpt for ivory. We decline.

Turn 9 -1675 AD
Continue evacuation.

IBT : Nothing

Turn 10 - 1670 AD
We gift Kyoto, Osaka and Teotihuacan to Arabia.
He's still annoyed.

Then we declare war on the Arabs.

Sign an alliance against the Arabs with everybody (gifting a tech or a resource if necessary to convince the AI, and also we needed to establish an embassy with Rome, Iroquois and Zulu).

IBT :
India offers 3 gpt for wool. We accept.
Scandinavia offers a ROP. We accept.

The UN gets completed. And we get the question if we want a vote.

Yes, we want. And the choices are : Theodora, Abu Bakr and abstain.
We choose Theodora and then we see the results of the vote.

Germany abstains ....
Celts abstains ...
Abu Bakr votes for Abu Bakr,

but everybody else votes for Theodora

We have our diplomatic win

End of turnlog.

Attached are pictures of the vote and the congratulations.
It was a little bit nerve breaking to play this last turnset, especially when the tech trading and gifting didn't work as planned.

But we were lucky in the end

@Team : We have done it Thanks

 

[AVN]

Good luck AVN!!

Thanks, but I have already played

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks, but I have already played

You do better without my wishes?

Nicely completed!!





And thanks for a great game.

 

[civ_steve]

Good job AVN! I'm glad you were able to finish it off; your strategizing and resulting discussion were important elements of our team play so it's nice to see you finish it off!

Way to go team! This game threw us a couple of curveballs, but we've ended up getting to home! (It is baseball season, after all! )

And now, time for the

 

[denyd]

Very nice finish senor AVN (in honor of Cinco de Mayo) - Time to go browse the other threads and see how everyone else did

 

[bluebox]

Smilie mayhem!! That was a quick and clean and lucky finish. Very good!

 

[Gyathaar]

Congrats on your victory I didnt notice you had won till now

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks.

AVN made it seem so easy at the end, it is hard to believe it is over.

Thanks for the game, it was certainly interesting.

 

[AVN]

Congrats on your victory I didnt notice you had won till now

Thanks

And thanks for this game. It was an interesting scenario
I'm looking forward to the next game

 

[DJMGator13]

Nice finish - Sorry for the disappearing act but my migraines returned and too many RL issue working around them and work. Still haven't had any time to play since my last set here so that tells you how long I've gone without playing.