SGOTM 12 - Xteam

Greatest APOLOGIES for completely disappearing. :(

I had/have some major changes happening right now. The great news is that I finally got satellite internet access after a 4 week wait so I can start helping again, yea!

I have a lot of reading to catch up on and need to look at all the saves so I can get a feel for how we are progressing. I should be up to speed by the time Hawk plays on Wed.
 
Grifftavian said:
Tech Trade Wish List: Are we going to try and build The Great Library in Moscow? If so, then Aesthetics and Literature should go on the wish list (and we should be reluctant to trade the techs on the path to Literature if we are going to try and build GL). Also, any techs on the path to Education, which we need for Oxford University, would be nice to obtain via trade.
Click to expand...
Should we get CS, we should probably discuss whether or not to use it as trade bait.

Grifftavian said:
Stop & Discuss Events: If someone builds The Oracle before we do, I guess we should stop and decide on Plan B. Also if someone shows up with a horde of troops near our territory.
Click to expand...
:cringe: Perish the thought! In either case... :)

Ronnie1 said:
I have a lot of reading to catch up on and need to look at all the saves so I can get a feel for how we are progressing. I should be up to speed by the time Hawk plays on Wed.
Click to expand...
No problem R1. Welcome back. :wavey:
 
Did some more testing, and I strongly recommend silver/ivory as our 3rd city and marble N of rice as our 4th.

Marble city as #3 (NW of rice) will give us marble in 19 turns but the city will be very unhealthy until it gets connected to Moscow, so it'll have around 17 turns where it will be unable to grow and hardly able to produce anything. :eek:

Marble city as #4 (N of rice) will give us marble in 20 turns (faster if we want to stack some unhappiness for a few turns in Moscow), and the city will be connected from the start. :) Silver/ivory #3 city will have produced its first worker before we settle marble city. :)

Getting CoL in 24 turns without trading and with 2-pop whipping two settlers will be hard, but I noticed that in the test game the food box goes empty the first time you fill it up, this should not be the case in the real game, so Moscow will regrow faster. :crazyeye:

One more suggestion: wait one turn before 2-pop whipping the settler and put the huge overflow into a worker, the worker will only need one more turn of production to finish. :D (mm to keep research high!)
This worker should pasture the cow at silver/ivory city. Later we only need one turn of producing a settler to put the 12/100 hammers into it before 2-pop whipping.


Suggested worker actions
Worker1+2: Scrub deer, move N of rice and scrub, scrub and quarry marble.
Worker3 (St Pete): Scrub and mine copper and road and prechop forests or scrub and pasture cow and road and prechop forests, I don't know what is best, St Pete will probably work the gold mine most of the time.. :crazyeye:
Worker4 (Moscow): Pasture cow at silver/ivory city, camp deer, mine silver (?)
Worker5 (silver/ivory city): Mine silver or help with quarry if neccesary.
Worker6 (St Pete): Help with prechop

City 5 should not be founded without proper preparation: road and scrubbing!

We should gift AH to Gandhi and put a smile on his face.... :mischief:

Notes test save contra real save:
1. The workers should be done scrubbing next turn.
2. Border of St Pete has popped, so we can use silk in St Pete if we want to work both gold in Moscow (not likely).
3. There is not as much fall out in the real save at marble city site.
4. France has more culture in the real save, not sure if the pigs city site will still be available when we produce our 5th settler.

Only suggestions - feel free to ignore... :lol:
 
Good stuff, let me step back and test some more. I will still play the turnset tomorrow, but probably a little later in the day. :)
 
zamint3, isn't NW of the rice a much better location for the marble city in the long run? Settling 1N of rice loses a wine tile and also loses a river grassland tile that could be cottaged. Why do you suggest 1N?
 
Just looked at the actual game save. Doesn't north of the rice gain a river grass SE of the rice? Also, we can work the Marble earlier, by 7-turns iirc, by settling N of the rice? Unless of course, those 7-turns will be filled with scrubbing the Marble tile?
 
Leif said it - more or less. :)

The main reason for N of rice is that we don't need to wait for the border to pop before we can improve the marble, and therefore we can found silver/ivory first and still manage to have marble on-line in 20 turns.
 
I do like switching the city order as Z suggests. Assuming we get Oracle, we come out of the turnset further ahead. If we don't get Oracle, all the more reason to have developed city 3 earlier.

Border pop is 5 turns, scrub is 4. 1N of rice doesn't buy much unless the workers have time to scrub the marble tile before the settler arrives (in which case they can quarry sooner). So the decision hinges on when the 2nd settler can be whipped and then travel to the site.

In the test save I can't seem to find a way to follow a 2 whip settler with a 1 turn worker (but I'll trust Z's math :)). Because of this, I can't test the timing of the 2nd settler for marble city.... which means I can't be sure of the timing of the scrubbing and border pops. So I will settle 1N of the rice to be safe.

My biggest concern is tech rate. In my tests, the marble is getting hooked up before the research done. Therefore, I am going to try to maximize research (for example, work the coastal tile in city 3 even if it slows down the worker). I also will let Moscow grow out between the worker and the 2nd settler.

I plan to play in a couple of hours.

leif said:
Good Luck Hawk!

Congrats on your HoF victory too!!
Click to expand...

thanks!
 
The-Hawk said:
In the test save I can't seem to find a way to follow a 2 whip settler with a 1 turn worker
Click to expand...
Don't know if it's to late.. :mischief:
Produce settler for one more turn, don't put more than 55/100 into it.
Next turn 2-pop whip for a overflow at about 36, working the gold and the cow when you whip. The overflow + next turn production (12) goes into worker and then one more turn with 12 production and there it is. :)

The-Hawk said:
(but I'll trust Z's math :)).
Click to expand...
:eek:

Good luck
 
The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry!

Thankfully, ours did not!

Turnset report:

Turn 69:
  • Whip settler for 2
Turn 70:
  • Moscow: Settler -> worker (sorry Z, in 2 turns)
  • Myst -> Masonry
  • Scrub deer
Turn 71:
  • Decide to try Z's idea of gifting AH to Gandhi... still no trades.
Turn 72:
  • Masonry -> Medi
  • Moscow: Worker -> warrior
  • Found Novgorod, start worker
  • Worker 4 heads off to improve cows
Turn 75:
  • Medi -> PH
  • Moscow: Warrior -> warrior
Turn 76:
  • Switch Moscow to settler after pop growth
  • Novgorod now working cows
Turn 77:
  • Worker 4 camping deer
  • Worker 1 scrubbing marble site (worker 2 is a turn behind)
  • Whip settler for 2 pop
Turn 78:
  • PH -> CoL
  • Moscow settler -> warrior
Turn 80:
  • Moscow warrior -> chariot
Turn 81:
  • Run into a Churchill axe and spear to the deep SW, but able to avoid
  • Scrubbing marble
  • Located Mao west of deGaulle
Turn 82:
  • Found Rostov, start Granary
Turn 84:
  • St. Pete: Worker -> Oracle
  • Novgorod: Worker -> Granary
Turn 85:
  • Moscow chariot -> worker
Turn 86:
  • Henge built somewhere (and yes, I had a heart attack when I heard the "wonder built" sound)
  • Find Churchill further southwest. Chariot is having some trouble staying away from AI units because of the fallout.
Turn 89:
  • Locate a Churchill stack South of Orleans: 2 axes, 3 spears, 1 archer. Heading our way.
Turn 91:
  • Moscow: Worker -> chariot (I figure we might need some more military)
  • 2 workers chop near St. Pete
Turn 92:
  • Confusianism founded in Rostov
  • St. Pete Oracle -> Granary
  • Take CS as free tech.
  • CoL -> Alphabet for now.

Full stop. I did NOT revolt to Bureau yet. I assume we will, but thought I'd leave for the next player just to be sure.

I was able to build some warriors for MP's. I think we need to hook up the copper next and get a couple of Axes started.

City 5 site is still available, maybe Moscow should switch to a settler. However we need to be prepared for the Churchill stack first.

The new AI's and rough location of Churchill's stack:

south west.jpg
 
NICE!

I definitely think a few units are necessary at this point.
 
:high5: Got the sling! Very nice set Hawk. :goodjob:

Looking good. :woohoo:

Updated Roster
Active:
Ronnie1 - UP
Cactus Pete - On Deck
leif
Mad Professor
Grifftavian
zamint3

Lurker:
Conquistador63
da_Vinci
Frederiksberg
Rusten
The-Hawk


Thinking we should consider Construction next? I don't think De Gaulle really needs all those Gems and Dye. I'm quite sure he'd like us to have them... :mischief:

We need to prepare to meet Churchill's stack anyway. Although, I think that Alphabet is the key to getting peace? :hmm:

And thanks as well to all our game testers, z3 and Griff. :goodjob: And also to Fred. :thumbsup: Nice job working with Hawk! :D
 
Well done Hawk. :goodjob: The CS sling was important. Great to have succeeded.

leif erikson said:
Thinking we should consider Construction next? I don't think De Gaulle really needs all those Gems and Dye. I'm quite sure he'd like us to have them... :mischief:

We need to prepare to meet Churchill's stack anyway. Although, I think that Alphabet is the key to getting peace? :hmm:
Click to expand...

Good reasons to beef up the army a little now that we've got that sling. I think military concerns are our next priority. Yes, going to Alphabet is the key to peace, and we should go that way, but we'll want to take some nice city spots away from an AI or two now I think, even if Churchill's stack gets lost on the way to Russia.
 
The-Hawk said:
The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry!

Thankfully, ours did not!
Click to expand...
You stopped my heart there for a few seconds.... :lol:

CS-sling. :dance:

CoL in 24 turns, well done. :salute:

The-Hawk said:
Turn 70:
  • Moscow: Settler -> worker (sorry Z, in 2 turns)
Turn 72:
  • Moscow: Worker -> warrior
Click to expand...
Settler at T70 and worker at T72, that's what I meant! :goodjob:
 
Great news about the CS sling!

I think Alpha next is the safer choice. For all we know there could be several stacks advancing on us (in addition to Churchill's) so buying peace with techs could be extremely important. We can't afford to be at war with multiple AI's for much longer.

The next player should also keep in mind that we need a GS for an Academy in Moscow. This is also quite important.

Unless we know that we can get Alpha before the Churchill stack arrives at our cities we need to build a couple of axes. Fifth settler may not be necessary if we can start capturing cities soon.
 
So I kind of see these as mutually exclusive,...Alpha for peace ~VS~ Construction for war. Both techs are a substantial investment. I think the "safer" route might be 4-5 axes, or more if we continue to find incoming stacks, while we tech Construction. Then build some cats while we tech HBR for Elphants and Horse Archers. Then expand the old fashioned way. The harder part will be keeping the economy and tech rate high.

I think we need more workers also, but don't think we really have time to slot them in with Churchill that close.
 
Thinking about it a bit more, when looking at the save, I saw Swords wondering about. Teching to Alphabet may give us the opportunity to not just make peace, but also trade a bit? Not sure what we might pick up in doing so? Or what we might have to give up? :think:

edit - or trade via pointy stick... :mischief:
 
Approximately 15 turns, it will in actuality probably be less as science will increase over time.

Goal is Alphabet, currently 15 turns @50% Science, will use binary strategy throughout turnset.

We are actually pretty good on workers right now, I missed the stacked pair at first glance.


Moscow
Builds = Chariot>Axe>Axe>Axe>Axe ... option would be to insert a barracks before completing any/some of the troops.
Wk#7 is 3 west of Moscow on a desert tile. Was there a plan for him? That tile can't be worked, do we want a road there?, or can he go straight to the cows east of Moscow?
I want to work the pastured cows here to grow quicker. 2nd gold worked by St Petes for a bit.
New pop is assigned as scientist, 2nd new pop goes to gold.
Do we want to settle the first GS or build academy 1st?

St Petes
Builds = Granary>Library
Wk#5 hooks copper>to rice
Wk#3 scrub>farm rice

Novgorod
Builds = Granary>Library
Wk#6 finish silver mine>Elephants

Rostov
Builds = Granary>Library
Wk#2 finishes furs>go to Novgorod Eles
Wk#1+4 finish deer>Rice
Missionary heads for Moscow???

New pop in all cities work best available tile with preference towards best improved food tiles. Exception is second scientist in Moscow.

Worker turns described won't take entire set, best available tile will lead worker turns after those described.

Scouting warrior in north finishes job then heads to Rostov to MP

Scouting chariots in south/west try to stay alive and scout/shadow troop movements.

STOP ORDERS??? A big new stack of enemy units shows up. France drops units from sea in endangered zone to north west.


I can play later today, 10-12 hours, or Monday. I will be gone Friday/Saturday/Sunday.
 
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