SGOTM 12 - Xteam

[The-Hawk]

Nice to see CP back!

I think the plan is coming together nicely. Some comments:

Agree on getting cottages started in Moscow.

I also am ok with popping another couple of workers out.

When exactly was Churchill's stack on the hill 3E of our current position?

I've been following the stack as they move east. I don't remember exactly where I saw them, but I think it was 1 NW of the X on the forest. IBT they moved east (or maybe north) into FOW. So they are likely at the X . Slight chance they went 1N/1NW of the X.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I was planning on using BOTH Clams and Cows, + Fish + 1 gold mine + 1 scientist @ size 5. In 2 turns we grow to size 6 and add 2nd scientist. At size 6 we will be +3 food and grow to size 7 in 6 turns. At size 7 I was planning on taking the gold mine back from St Petes, but then we will only be +1 food if we still run 2 scientists (May want to do that, at least until cottages are available. This raises question as to whether capital is best place for Confu missionary. Happiness will be less important there with use of furs, silver, and eventually ivory. May want to delay his disposition. Another city without barracks that could produce misssionaries under OR could be a better placement in time.) . I guess we really do need more workers to keep up. Worker next in St Petes for sure then, but I was planning on working the gold mine here which slows him down a bit. Thoughts?

Okay, and what about switching to barracks?

 

[leif erikson]

In 2 turns, we can work 2 scientists and the cows if we move a citizen now on gold to a specialist, <snip>

Just had a look at this and the idea is growing on me.

Worker next in St Petes for sure then, but I was planning on working the gold mine here which slows him down a bit. Thoughts?

Think the speed of getting him out is more important than the cash atm.

A strong Bureaucracy Capital needs high pop and lots of cottages. This is because Bureaucracy multiplies gold from cottages by 1.5 while it has no effect on scientist beakers. Better try to set up a dedicated GP farm somewhere soon.

Looks like we may have to fight for this as it is city #6 on Griff's dot map. Don't expect we will get it built before peace? We will need a Settler ready to go and some protection (Axe and Chariot?)

Was also thinking about Pyramids and Representation? A possibility in Novgorod?
And if we build a dedicated GP Farm down south, where do we want to try to build Great Library?

edit - If we want Cottages in the capital, looks like the best place to start building them is under the forests near the river? What would we like to chop those forests into? Units or buildings, in the capital or in St. Pete?

 

[Grifftavian]

...I would like to keep an eye on the stack as much as possible. What if they "know" exactly where we are and head straight in? Where do we try to make a defensive stand?

If we can get troops there in time, the hills and forests between the three mountain peaks to the SW might make for some good defensive positions. We might be able to hold off troops marching in from the far SW. Wouldn't do anything to stop De Gaulle from landing troops across the water, however.

See attached screenshot.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looks like we may have to fight for this as it is city #6 on Griff's dot map. Don't expect we will get it built before peace? We will need a Settler ready to go and some protection (Axe and Chariot?) Concur that another city toward the SW is impractical before peace, but getting a settler out roughy concurrent with Alpha might make sense, in which case may be no need for an escort.

Was also thinking about Pyramids and Representation? A possibility in Novgorod? Not sure this is consistent with attacking France soon, and it's not clear that running numerous specialists in multiple cities will be our tactic.
And if we build a dedicated GP Farm down south, where do we want to try to build Great Library? Moscow would be the default option.

edit - If we want Cottages in the capital, looks like the best place to start building them is under the forests near the river? Concur. What would we like to chop those forests into? Units or buildings, in the capital or in St. Pete?

Think we pre-chop and road and wait on this decision until we see how successful we are at getting peace and avoiding unwanted conflicts. Might save for GLib but more likely for units post barracks and additional military techs.

 

[Ronnie1]

OK, switch Moscow to Barracks now, switch to Axes ASAP even though chariot won't be finished. Make sure not to decay out hammers from the chariot later.

Worker in St Petes working the copper over the gold.

Pre-chop forests and road them.

Pause if it gets too hairy

 

[Cactus Pete]

Sounds good to me. Might want others to give a green light as well.

 

[Grifftavian]

^^@R1 - looks go to me, good luck!

 

[zamint3]

Go ahead R1 - I'm curious to find out if that stack really is heading directly towards us.

 

[Ronnie1]

I played a few turns, this turn another unit showed up closer to homeland.

Both forests near Moscow are pre-chopped, only 1 is flagged. I think we need to chop axes, but that is why I stopped. This could be a critical decision IMO. We also need to be a bit careful about the actual chopping I think. I think it is possible to get too many hammers in a single turn such that some of them are converted to gold as overflow, I'm not sure if we want that to happen or not.

I think the tile to defend from needs to be the forest on the west side of the river. Then hope the stack doesn't go north.

My turn notes

Spoiler :

Start T92

Switch builds in appropriate cities, check.
Revolt to Bureaucracy, check.
Switch research to Agriculture, 0% sci, anarchy

Find Curchill's stack on the hill, screenshot.
Find the edge of island in SE, screenshot.
end turn

IBT 93-94 Gandhi demands CoL, I say no, no penalty immediately noticed.
I struggled with this decision a lot, hope it works out long term.

There is a French archer between our SE chariot and home now.

Churchills stack heading straight to us.

Here is the upload log

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 575 BC to 450 BC:

Turn 92, 575 BC: You have discovered Civil Service!
Turn 92, 575 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 92, 575 BC: Catherine adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 92, 575 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 94, 525 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!

Turn 95, 500 BC: Moscow has grown to size 6.
Turn 95, 500 BC: Novgorod has grown to size 3.
Turn 95, 500 BC: The borders of St. Petersburg are about to expand.
Turn 95, 500 BC: The borders of St. Petersburg have expanded!

Turn 97, 450 BC: Novgorod can hurry Library for 1? with 6? overflow and +1? for 10 turns.

 

[Grifftavian]

Initial thoughts after a quick look at the latest save...

Looks like it will take Churchill's stack 7 turns minimum to reach either Moscow or St. Pete, 8 turns minimum to reach Novgorod, or 9 turns minimum to reach Rostov. This assumes that they know where they are going; they could be in search and destroy mode and may not know exactly where our cities are at this point.

I would guess that Moscow or St. Pete is the target. Rostov could be a target, since it is a Holy City, and Churchill has state no religion at this point. Not sure what priority AI places on capturing Holy Cities.

We can upgrade one existing Warrior to an Axeman now, and should be able to upgrade two more to Axemen in 7 turns, IF we keep Science at 0%. (Warrior in Rostov not upgradable until city connected by roads).

Barracks in Moscow completed in 1 turn, so we might be able to get two Combat I Axemen produced in 7 turns with the aid of some chops, and possibly the Chariot as well. Might need to whip after we get the GScientist in Moscow.

Using only existing units and those produced in Moscow, that would give us 5 Axemen, 1 Warrior and 2 or 3 Chariots vs. Chruchill's 2 Axemen, 3 Spearmen and 1 Archer. If we switch production in Novgorod to an Axeman now, he would be complete in 7 turns, sooner with a good whipping to get him in a fighting mood.

It's going to be a tough battle.

 

[Frederiksberg]

While whipping units is not good it may be the lesser evil compared to spending gold on upgrades. Upgrading is a very expensive way of getting hammers - I think the ratio is 3 gold per hammer. I suggest you try to at least limit whipping in Moscow and whip the necessary axes in other cities.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Good pause point. Agree that this needs to be thought through. Interesting that stack has not headed directly towards us but has veered West. Will look at save late tonight and post.

 

[leif erikson]

If we whip the Barracks, we get a 35 hammer overflow that builds the next Axe in one turn. We can then chop a forest to get a second Axe the next turn and, if we need a third, chop the second forest as well. We get three Axes for the price of 1 pop and two chops, and they will be CBT1 promoted.

The French Archer represents an excellent opportunity to promote one of those Axes to Shock to gain an advantage over Churchill's stack. There is a forest and three hills he must pass to get to our cities, however, he can bypass them?

Do not see how we can get to Alphabet in time to make peace? This could get a bit hairy...

 

[Cactus Pete]

I must be missing something . . . Why can't we just switch to Alpha at 100% and get it in six turns? That takes care of the English, and we'd only have to worry about the French archer south of the ivory should he head north. Are we not certain that we can get peace for Alpha?

Like to move chariot 2 1NW to make sure nothing else is likely to come out of the fog and to check to see if a French galley is anchored in the strait.

Does unit movement benefit from roads on tiles with fallout?

BTW, why do we have no positive diplo points with G, having gifted him techs?

 

[zamint3]

Why can't we just switch to Alpha at 100% and get it in six turns?

Let's try this.

Does unit movement benefit from roads on tiles with fallout?

Yes!

BTW, why do we have no positive diplo points with G, having gifted him techs?

I had the same thought.

 

[Ronnie1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Pete View Post
Why can't we just switch to Alpha at 100% and get it in six turns?
Let's try this.

OK, but do we also whip/chop the beginnings of an army just in case we CAN'T get peace for Alphabet?

 

[leif erikson]

BTW, why do we have no positive diplo points with G, having gifted him techs?

Went back to have a look at this.

In this post, it says: "Gandhi accepts peace for Math". We gave him tech in a peace deal, we didn't gift him anything, at least not that I can find?

 

[zamint3]

Went back to have a look at this.

In this post, it says: "Gandhi accepts peace for Math". We gave him tech in a peace deal, we didn't gift him anything, at least not that I can find?

Hawk did at T71:

Turn 71:

• Decide to try Z's idea of gifting AH to Gandhi... still no trades.

 

[Frederiksberg]

The reason could be that Gandhi had already researched most of AH. Gifting a tech should in most cases give us +4 diplomatic points for fair trade.