SGOTM 13 - One Short Straw

[Dhoomstriker]

I still need to look into whether or not Gold City can gain by delaying the hiring of its 1st Scientist. However, once I have my answer, I will simply use the choice that gives us the best result (the path that gives us the earliest Great Scientist with the least amount of turns with Unhappy people).

I checked out this possibility.

What ends up happening is that we delay our Great Scientist by 1 turn (getting it on Turn 140 instead of Turn 139).

When we grow into Unhappiness the first time, we suffer 3 turns' worth of Unhappiness, as opposed to 1 turn of Unhappiness that we get by hiring 1 Scientist as soon as we grow to City Size 4.

Thus, we lose out on both counts by delaying the Hiring of Scientist Specialists until growing to City Size 5 when we can finally hire 2 Scientists at once while still working our 3 best squares in Gold City.

So, I will stick with the PPP's plan of hiring 1 Scientist immediately at City Size 4, then hiring 2 Scientists at City Size 5.

 

[shyuhe]

Sounds good!

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I was orignially thinking that we'd want to put Warrior 3 (scheduled to be built in Paris on Turn 111) on the Crab Island to the NE of Gold City because it could help to spawn-bust the two black squares that exist to the south of this City and to the north of Marble City.

However, thanks to having completed The Oracle, these two squares will be revealed by our Cultural borders within 2 turns. On the current Turn (Turn 105), I will move the Galley SE + S + S, which puts it in position to spawn-busted by our Galley and the southern both of these two squares while remaining out of reach of any Barb Galley that may have just finishing spawning in one of those two squares. On the following turn (Turn 106), the Galley will still spawn-bust one of those squares. On the turn after that (Turn 107), our Marble City's expanded Cultural Borders will reveal those squares.

As a result, we only care about putting a Warrior at the north end of the Crab Island (the "Red Warrior" location in the image below).

Yet, when we compare putting a Warrior on the west end of Fur Island (the "Teal Warrior" location in the image below), we see that we can get the exact same coverage as a Warrior placed at the north of the Crab Island PLUS additional coverage.

This situation exists because we do not care about the additional Ocean squares that a Warrior placed at the North of the Crab Island would reveal--we only care about revealing Coast squares, both for spawn-busting purposes and for advance-warning purposes.

Thus, Warrior 3 will go to Fur Island and will station himself at the western end of this island (an the "Teal Warrior" location). See the following screenshot to see what I mean:

Note that any team that built Cities in the same locations as us but DID NOT get a Cultural Border expansion in Marble City may have Barb Galleys spawning in the middle of their empire unless they plug the hole somehow (with a Warrior, a Galley, a City, or something on or around Crab Island). So, great job on completing The Oracle in Marble City, team!

 

[shyuhe]

I must have not been reading closely earlier as I had always assumed that the northern warrior would go sit on the fur island

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Heh, well at least it will all work out in the end.

Note that my red and teal squares were only marking the squares Coast that will be visible... the square to the NE + NE of the Teal Warrior will also get spawn-busted (we just won't see any Barb Galleys that sail into that square).


I just ran through a test game up until we complete the Work Boat in Stone City, at which point we will need to decide:
a) Build another Work Boat because our Work Boat Explorer did not make it home
OR
b) Build Warrior 4 because we want to spawn-bust another location such as Copper island to the SE
OR
c) Build a Lighthouse


I have updated Galley 1's movements in order to transport Warrior 3 to Fur Island all the while keeping the Galley at least 3 squares away from any potential Barb Galley spawning point (i.e. keeping our Galley completely safe from unknown threats).

I'm not sure that I'll remember to take screenshots of the F8 and F9 screens, what with so many things to keep track of, but I'll try to remember.


I should be able to start playing very shortly but I will take my time playing (partially to keep checking the PPP, partially to make sure that I take care of all of the details that aren't in the PPP--such as Resource Trade possibilities, and to try and give me enough time to remember to take screenshots ).

 

[shyuhe]

We can re-evaluate Stone's production once we figure out whether our exploring WB(s) made it back safely.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Actually, I have had an interesting thought while starting the first turn (I have yet to advance the turn):
We have a Marble Resource that each of the 4 AIs that we have met wants to get ahold of. Why not trade it away for something useful?

As of now, the only trade possible is a Cow Resource from Cathy, but we could use +1 Health in a few turns once we grow to Size 6 and start producing our Settler. Of course, getting that +1 Health will mean that I will have to dip back into the test game just to make sure that our Settler 5 will remain a 3-pop-whip if we get that +1 Food (which is actually converted into a Hammer).

We could wait until we meet Ragnar, to see if he has something better to offer, but since Cathy only has 2 Cows, she could choose to trade it away to another AI by that time. It is my experience that one should grab Resource trades when they become available, because the sooner that you grab them, the sooner that you cancel them when something better comes along.


The Oracle has been built, but giving away Marble could allow The Temple of Artemis to be built quicker. Of course, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an AI feel tempted to focus on building a Wonder instead of building Military Units. Of course, if the AI (Cathy) that has The Great Lighthouse builds The Temple of Artemis, it would be a wickedly powerful Wonder, but it would also just make her that much juicier of a target.

Thoughts?

 

[babybluepants]

Good idea, Dhoom. Cow is pretty sad as resource trades go. I'd say take it, but let's see if there's an option to renegotiate for something better (at least a grain, if not happy) in 10t.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

HAHAHA! Sometimes there is just no messing with perfection.

Taking a Health Resource would give us +1 Food for 2 Turns, netting us +2 Hammers in Paris. However, even getting +1 Hammer is enough of a bonus in order for us to turn a 3-pop-whip into a 2-pop-whip. Who knew that we were cutting it THAT CLOSELY for the efficiency of our Settler 5's 3-pop-whip?

Then, of course, we are making 8 base Hammers. So, if I were to switch a Grassland Hills Mine to a Coast square for 1 turn, we'd miss out on 1 bonus Hammer. So, we'd trade a square worth 5 Hammers (1 Food + 4 Hammers) for a square worth 2 Hammers (2 Food) and 2 Commerce for one turn. The other turn we could go back to working the GH Mine.

We'd then be behind 1 by Hammer overall, but up 2 Commerce.

But, when we overflow into The Pyramids, we used to be at 56 Hammers (overflowing plus the 2 Hammers that we make on that turn) but now will only be at 55 Hammers, meaning that we will once again miss out on a bonus Hammer from the Forge. Thus, we'll only put 123 final Hammers into The Pyramids instead of 125 final Hammers into The Pyramids.

End result? Lose 2 Hammers and gain 2 Commerce. We'd also get a fraction of a +1 Diplo bonus with Cathy, but since we don't really care about relationships, we probably don't care about this fact.

Of course, we could instead just spend 1 turn of building Settler 5 before 3-pop-whipping it. Doing so allows us to regrow a bit faster, meaning that all future build items in Paris will arrive 1 turn sooner (such as Trireme 1) and gives us the Forge bonus for working both Grassland Hills Mines for 1 turn. However, it means only overflowing 40 Hammers, giving us 42 base Hammers going into The Pyramids for a total of 94 final Hammers going into The Pyramids.


Sigh. Try to do a little good and see where it gets me?


So, I'm not really sure which option is best here.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I thought about the idea of gifting away one of our Health Resources, to "reduce our gain," but the only Health Resource that anyone wants to take off of our hands is a Corn, which only Cathy wants.

Of course, our Corn is already worth 2 Health in Paris, so we don't want to give it away.

Since production is hard to come by on this map, we probably want 2 Hammers going into The Pyramids more than we want 2 Commerce. So, I think that at this point, we'll just hold off on giving away our Marble and will hope for a better Resource to come up in trade, such as a Happiness Resource.


I guess it is worth noting that 3 of the 4 AIs that we know have a good Resource (Corn) available to them. Onwards with the turnset (without trading for now) I will go...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Actually, scratch that. Since we're CURRENTLY Unhealthy at City Size 7, that means that we will gain +1 Food for 2 turns now, as well.

Thus, overall, by taking Cow in trade, we will be up 2 Food and 2 Commerce and will be behind by 2 Hammers. I think that this trade is favourable, especially since the more Food that we get, the more that we will grow and the sooner that we will be able to whip again for more Hammers.

In the end, those +2 Food should translate into more than 2 Hammers, while we'll also get +2 Commerce.

So, yup, I WILL take the trade. Ahahaha way to flip-flop on decisions, but that's what happens when you switch between different points in time (I just jumped ahead to a test game's saved game... I forgot about the CURRENT TURN's extra Health that we'd gain and just focused on the effect on the Settler... that chronoshifting can be mind-bending at times ).

Therefore, the following action is about to occur:

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Okay, I made the trade of our Marble for Cathy's Cow and ended the turn.

On Turn 106, 1350 BC, Willem completed Stonehenge. That fact shouldn't affect our plans, so I'm going to continue playing (I'm pretty much done with Turn 106's actions).

 

[Dhoomstriker]

The Work Boat explorer that is trying to make its way home has found another City of Ragnar's. I can tell for certain that it is him, as the coloured territory that we have spotted belongs to the "Viking Empire." So, we should be able to meet him for certain next turn.

For reference, here is the Cultural Map, so that you can see where the City exists that we originally spotted him by (which, given its Cultural Border expansion was likely his capital).

Of note, none of the 4 AIs that we know currently have a source of Stone connected (we just finished hooking ours up). So, Willem just decided to power-out Stonehenge. By the way, Willem is Creative, so he essentially "wasted" the power of Stonehenge that another AI could have made much better use out of.

 

[Perfection]

HAHAHA! Sometimes there is just no messing with perfection.

Noone ever messes with Perfection.

 

[shyuhe]

As long as we don't mess up our whip overflow on the settlers, I'm fine with either option.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Well, we have finally run amuck of the Barbarians. Low and behold, another Barb Galley!

I believe that the rule is that their radar can detect Seafood Resources 7 movement points away and our closest one is 9 movement points away. So, barring some really bad luck in terms of the Barb Galley's random movement algorithm, we could be okay or else it could find us out shortly.

At least we have 1 turn worth of Hammers invested in a Trireme.

Another thought is that I can play "chicken" with the Barb Galley using our own Galley, should it come to that. Doing so would delay the date of when we could feasibly get Warrior 3 up to Fur Island, but could allow us to lure the Barb Galley towards the eastern side of Stone Island. Anyway, our Galley has already moved this turn, so there's nothing else that I can do this turn in regards to the situation. I'll pause play for a bit but not for long, since it really depends what the Barb Galley does at the end of this turn as to whether or not we'll need to MASSIVELY PANIC or not.

Someone has a nice 2-Gem location. I didn't bother to go and scout it out for Seafood since it is all Jungly and yucky-looking, so I doubt that we'd justify such a far-flung City even if it did have a source of Food or two.

I did meet Ragnar, and as you can see from the screenshot, he has a Chariot.

Some random points on the overall AI situation:
Willem thinks that he is the big boss, as he gives a reason for not attacking any of Cathy, Isabella, or Ragnar as "We don't like you enough." He was also found to be bragging about his Spearmen.

Cathy, meanwhile, was bragging about her Axemen. She does not know Isabella. She "would have nothing to gain" by going after Willem, so she definitely fears him. She "doesn't like us enough" to go after Ragnar, so she believes that she could kick Ragnar's butt easily enough.

Ragnar is "friends" with Cathy (she knows her stuff--she has her wrapped around her finger) ^.^ so he won't attack her. He is afraid of Willem. However, Ragnar is currently willing to attack Isabella. He was also willing to brag about having Chariots, even though we can clearly see that he has them. We will also have to be careful about him hooking-up Ivory in the future.

Isabella is pimping out her Archers: "I now have an Archer. Ho-ho-ho." She is afraid of both Willem and Ragnar.

Vicky only knows us and wants us to fear her Archer.

No one is anyone's Worst Enemy.

All relationships are Cautious (including AI relationships towards us) with the following exceptions for AIs that treat the others as Pleased:
Ragnar and Cathy are Pleased with each other.
Willem is Pleased with Isabella.

All relationships on the F4 -> GLANCE screen are at +1, with the exceptions of Isabella having +5 towards Ragnar and Ragnar having +4 towards Isabella due to sharing the same Religion. Of course, they are still both Cautious towards each other.

If we were playing a Diplo game, this info might be exceedingly meaningful, but for now, it's mostly just for fun.

 

[shyuhe]

Can we try putting the galley on the east side of Stone island to see what the barb galley does? Otherwise, it'll be time to bust out the whip...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Can we try putting the galley on the east side of Stone island to see what the barb galley does? Otherwise, it'll be time to bust out the whip...

Yes, but not until next turn, since the Galley just finished arriving in Stone City. It is only because it arrived in Stone City and unloaded our Worker 1 that we were able to spot the Barb Galley, since it was Worker 1's action of climbing the Desert Hills square that spotted the Barb Galley.

The Barb Galley will seek out a unit that is 4 squares away or less, so I certainly attempt to position our Galley (using the "sneak through the land" technique, due to having settled Stone City as a "canal") such that it will safely lure the Barb Galley, but I won't have the option to do so until next turn.

In the worst case, the Barb Galley will move 2 movement points towards our Seafood. In that case, it may or may not ignore our Galley in favour of going after our Seafood. We'll know more after I end the turn.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Onwards we go. So, it is Turn 109 and the Barb Galley in the east has disappeared. I have "Show Enemy Moves" enabled but I also have "Quick Moves" enabled... basically, the game didn't show me anything (maybe it only shows when an enemy APPEARS from out of the fog but does not show which direction an enemy ENTERS the fog).

Anyway, the threat has been averted for now. The plan has me sending the Galley into Paris, then shuttling Warrior 3 up to Fur Island. Are we okay to stick with this plan for now?

Then, of course, as luck would have it, we spot a Barb Galley in the west. Our Work Boat hasn't died yet. Of course, I'm going to run in the opposite direction.

But, we also have an interesting possibility... luring a Barb Galley into the fishing waters of one of the AIs. I am very tempted to lure the Barb Galley into Isabella's shipping lanes and then head east from there. Either we'll connect-up with the southern end of Rangar's island, in which case we can just Open Borders with him and explore his lands, or else we won't find a connection and can explore around the southern edge of Isabella's island.

Ragnar also has a Galley just to the south-west of our area, to the south-east of Marble City. He'll be a good spawn-buster for us down there there, since he doesn't have Open Borders with us and will be forced to "turn back" in short order. He could feasibly explore as far east as the two 1-square-islands that exist to the south-east of Marble City, but then would have to turn around and go back.

Fortunately, we wouldn't mind having a spawn-buster in this area, so he is a welcome sight.

Also, Isabella is now +6 with Ragnar (Ragnar has "maxed out" of Religious Diplo towards Isabella). She is now Pleased with him, but ironically, he will still declare war on her, hehe.

Also, Ragnar has nothing in trade to offer us but will accept one of our 3 Clam Resources. Shall we gift it to him? Shall we instead wait for him to Demand it and then ACCEPT his Demand (it's not like we'd really need that 3rd Clam for ourselves)? Shall we just be a jerk and hang onto our Clam, despite any Demands, and hope that he will still want to trade us a Resource should he get one and after refusing any potential Demand?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

By the way, Ragnar has a low chance of Demanding anything, but if he does demand something (in this case it could only be our Clam Resource) and we refuse his demand, then he has an 80% chance of launching a Sneak Attack on us "whenever he feels prepared enough to attack."

I haven't played any further yet, but he's the only AI that is currently in a position to make a Demand out of us (since all of the other AIs only want Resources that we have a single source of).