SGOTM 13 - Spooks

[killercane]

My point exactly. To get it quickly, we have to rush archers (or other 20 shield unit) at 120 gold apiece. It will take at least 20 turns AFTER Republic to get something of a force IF we can accrue the 2400 gold.

Now if we can buy some workers from someone, we can then get to 10 spt and make 80 gold units. NO has quite some bonus grass if we can attain those tiles via culture. It probably needs to grow a bit before then, and it will be a while before it could do 10 spt, but ultimately that should be the goal.

Once we have lighthouse, we can upgrade those warriors back home to swords to finish off America. I dont know what our main force will be since it is so long until we can produce knights in great numbers to really sweep through everyone. I dont see that we will ever stop fighting and merely research until after most of this continent is gone and we can get 4 turn research the rest of the way. Once we have a core, we can consider our golden age.

I think we will have to leader rush the FP. No way to build it back home really.

 

[Andronicus]

Quite some time to build up an army of 10 warriors + 10 cats + 5 spears...

so the sooner we get started ...
(we could start on cats now)


so we buy workers (hope they come avail) rather than build in NO.
Options for NO builds would then include cats to start building our army or temple to get some culture (and the extra happy face wont go astray seeing as we have 2 lux on our big island and nil in NO).
I think my vote goes to temple, even pop rushing it.

 

[Andronicus]

RE need for size 2 to G&R

I have had a vague memory of reading somewhere that could G&R at size 1 without autorazing, so I have done a test case (on a COTM46 save file so cant show you here), and I was able to gift a size 1 newly settled town of native citizen to a foreign country, dow and retake in same turn without it autorazing. Would anyone one else like to confirm or otherwise this (on any old save).

edit
OK knock me over the head with a hammer
I forgot I had ToA, trying on an earlier pre ToA save and ... guess what, it autorazes

sooo, ... I'll only G&R size 2 or greater towns without culture

 

[killercane]

That sounds right to me. I dont have anything to test it on I dont think. I will have to check.

 

[Andronicus]

OK, would like to play soon.
Only point I havnt heard an opinion on is ? temple build in NO - what do you guys think?

 

[killercane]

I think no. A warrior will do the same thing, and we arent close to size 5 yet to weigh it vs. lux slider.

Now, if it gives us those cleared tiles that are currently American, then sure, as we can get to +5 fpt in Republic. My gut tells me it will not though, but I cant remember the mechanics of the thing.

We could also weigh whether another city will work beside NO; this will double our ability to make army or at least save us paying premium rates for one turn units. 2 units per two turns after one turn invested is a lot cheaper than a unit per turn without the 10 spt plateau.

 

[Paul#42]

Okay, looks like we got a consense to jump the palace asap and play g&R with Portugal soon - to get Republic.

And NO should build some units.

I still favor to build FP soon (as soon as we can - when? ) in Edo, we won't have too much to build there except for galleys...

And yes, rather units than temple first.

 

[Andronicus]

OK playing now ... and no temple (yet) for NO

(will edit this as I go)

280AD
Switch NO to temple, MM for G&R to Portugal in 3 turns

IT
stack of 3 yellow swords approach from south, American spear enters NO territory (I dont give em the boot)
Izumo warrior -> wealth
Indians complete Sistine Chapel in Delhi
Dutch complete Leo's in Amsterdam

290AD
The yellow are Mongols, in middle ages, have rep 56g
Knowing Mongols brings myst price down - buy from Iroquois for 12gpt + 8g (Mongols are 20g more expensive)
Embassy with America is only 38g - I want to know if they are at war with anyone

We are next door to Washington defended by 4 spears (seems Baltimore was America's only iron)
Seems those Mongol swords are on their way to Washington ... if only we were in a position to take advantage.
Read replies to thread and realise I'm outvoted on the temple for NO -> switched to warrior for mp.
I will have 5 towns ready for G&R in 2 turns
Galley positioned to take suicide run towards Portugal next turn, would arrive in Portugal first turn of war and have to survive 4 turns against Portuguese navy -> I decide to delay 2 turns.

IT
Mongol troops approach Washington
More American troops cross NO (hopefully en route to Mongols)
Izumo's resistance ends

300AD
Final prep for G&R, I think Spain should be next target after Portugal

IT
Witness America - Mongol battles, America coming off the worse
Osaka settler (now size 2) -> wealth
Edo settler (size 2) -> wealth
Nara galley (size 4) -> wealth
Nagoya settler (size 2)-> wealth

310AD
settle Nagasaki S of Nagoya
Sell off Edo's temple (since it will be lost in gift anyway)
Realise Satsuma is still size 3 and will be new capital due to proximity to other towns.
I can either gift it too (wasting 18 shields towards settler), or rush the settler putting it back to size 2 (growing to 3 to build settler in 2)
I do the latter.
Since our current purpose of island towns is G&R, the more we can pack in the better.
Gift Izumo, Osaka, Edo and Nara .. guys we have a problem ... we cant gift our capital

OK I have saved here awaiting input.
I am very keen to shift our capital to NO ASAP. The only way we can do it that I can see is to abandon Nagoya (selling rax first). CA2 currently shows NO as site for capital jump. Do I do it now or is there another option I dont know about (I havnt dowed Portugal yet, obviously we cant include Nagoya in the G&R, but I will dow and retake during this turn)?

 

[killercane]

Im confused. We just gift all towns to Portugal or whoever, then abandon capital to NO, our only city left, then take back everything and rebuild the old capital with the settler waiting.

 

[Andronicus]

Im confused. We just gift all towns to Portugal or whoever, then abandon capital to NO, our only city left, then take back everything and rebuild the old capital with the settler waiting.

I was the one confused - I thought we could gift our capital too.
Proceeding with abandonment of Nagoya.

OK progress report

310AD cont
Abandon Nagoya after selling rax -> capital shifts to NO, can do 6spt at size 3 with 40%lux, or 5spt with clown - go the latter
dow Portugal
retake Izumo (no resistors), Osaka (keeps harbour, 1 resistor), Edo (keeps harbour, 2 resistors) and Nara (2 resistors)

IT
Nara and Edo quell 1 resistor each

320AD
settler to site of former Nagoya
Shimonoseki at site of former Denver
Galley begins suicide trip to Portugal (if successful will arrive in Portugal 4th turn of war and hopefully then get peace)
We can now trade resources with Iroquois, Spain, Rome and Celts - I'm unsure how secure these trade routes are, so hold off at present

IT
Resistance ends in Osaka, Edo and Nara
NO warrior -> warrior
Satsuma settler -> galley
Suicide galley sinks

330AD
Matsuyama settled on hill next to former Baltimore site (ie not on iron)
New Nagoya settled at site former Nagoya
Our curragh meets Carthage - in medieval age, up rep
Celts now have 3386g
Warrior does some exploring aroud NO
Iroquois now know rep, so that window of opportunity now gone

IT
Portugal and Rome sign MA v .... ... Egypt
Mongol attack on America appears to have fizzled out

340AD
Launch another suicide galley (would love to find Egypt if they are being dogpiled)

IT
NO warrior -> catapult
Another galley sinks in its first turn at sea

350AD
Celts now have 3760g
Portugal willing to offer peace - not surprisingly they will not offer a town
Will give a discount on tech eg HBR for 8g instead of 287g Spain is asking
I'm keen to go ahead and buy a tech (but for gpt) as I'm concerned we may find an alliance against us if we dally, unless anyone feels confident we will increase our booty by waiting.

The Save

 

[Paul#42]

bummer about the capital. I should have known this
Disbanding was the right (only) choice.

I had thought we would gift all towns but Satsuma (and Nagoya)? HBR is diappointing but we would not have got Republic if we had gifted all.

Bad luck with our navy, too.

I'd favor peace with Portugal now. We won't increase the price unless we kill more units or towns.
So lets take Republic the long way...

Those size-2-towns should build a slave first to increase our free work force.
our native workers could join towns tomake them size 2 before gifting. Nothing to do for them, right?

for double-checking the size-1-town-gifting

 

[killercane]

Certainly we need to GR more towns when we do it next (soon). Not so bad though here as we really just wanted to move the capital. I have not looked at the save.

Eh we had three workers there in Washington, its a shame we couldnt GR earlier and buy those. I really hate buying cheap techs that give us nothing a la mysticism. We need our gold for so much and myst offers nothing in return (in my opinion of course). We cant make a play for poly since Im sure everyone has it (they have govt techs).

 

[Andronicus]

Eh we had three workers there in Washington, its a shame we couldnt GR earlier and buy those.

I missed them

I checked CA2 alerts each turn, but for some unfathomable reason I hadnt ticked the there are workers for sale box :suicide:

 

[Andronicus]

Certainly we need to GR more towns when we do it next (soon). Not so bad though here as we really just wanted to move the capital.

The towns not gifted were either size 1 (Nagasaka, Tokyo and Kagoshima) or would waste settler build (in case of Satsuma). I had of course been thinking we would be able to G&R 5 towns including Nagoya. So we only had the option of G&R for 5 towns at this time - a delay could have been costly if NO had flipped

Is it worth building (rushing) temples - they are cheap and we only need pay maintenance for 1 turn then we have some culture and can G&R to our hearts content without having to wait for pop to get back up to size 2 each time. (Theoretically we could G&R 2 civs in the one turn)

I also have started settlers in Nara and Edo (these can be veto-ed to galleys if wished) but there is room for 2 more towns on our island. The more towns we have to G&R the more we are likely to get in subsequent peace treaty.

 

[killercane]

The towns not gifted were either size 1 (Nagasaka, Tokyo and Kagoshima) or would waste settler build (in case of Satsuma). I had of course been thinking we would be able to G&R 5 towns including Nagoya. So we only had the option of G&R for 5 towns at this time - a delay could have been costly if NO had flipped

Is it worth building (rushing) temples - they are cheap and we only need pay maintenance for 1 turn then we have some culture and can G&R to our hearts content without having to wait for pop to get back up to size 2 each time. (Theoretically we could G&R 2 civs in the one turn)

I also have started settlers in Nara and Edo (these can be veto-ed to galleys if wished) but there is room for 2 more towns on our island. The more towns we have to G&R the more we are likely to get in subsequent peace treaty.

Agreed on all points. . Hard for me to remember if you just need some culture or border expansion but I will defer to you two.

 

[Paul#42]

Some culture is sufficient, no border extension necessary. However we might still want the border extension (in some towns) to gain new tiles.

The idea is better than to join workers to reach size two.
Can we gift towns with resistors?

CA2 has the alert function where you can enable the "workers for sale" option iirc.

 

[Andronicus]

Some culture is sufficient, no border extension necessary. However we might still want the border extension (in some towns) to gain new tiles.

Agree

Can we gift towns with resistors?

Yes

CA2 has the alert function where you can enable the "workers for sale" option iirc.

Yep, just I didnt have it ticked, so no alert

 

[Paul#42]

So KC, it's your turn if you like.

What are we about to do?
Some temples before we go really wild?

 

[killercane]

I have been awol a bit since yesterday, still havent looked at the save. Please leave suggestions and I can play in 8 hours or so.

 

[Paul#42]

I did not take a closer look yet either but it sounds to me as if we should take a small break and hurry some temples in our empire.

And of course buy workers and build rax and warriors in NO...
And we could use a couple of galleys to explore Alpha counterclockwise - if one makes it over...

This is a crazy game...