SGOTM 14 - Spooks

[Paul#42]

What I find more intriguing is pondering the reason for Ivan's drop in culture rate between turns 40 and 50
Possible reasons could include revolt (? philo -> trade for either poly or CoL and free govt tech) or less likely either losing capital or shifting capital (not suggested by their territory graph). If we make a successful sling shot we should revolt in the following 10 turns which Klarius hasn't, so perhaps they missed / didn't attempt slingshot.

I think it's from revolting, but maybe to monarchy? To get some AI to know Poly in time is easy in this game. To get anybody research CoL would have been quite a risk...

Havnt looked at save yet, but from your pics I wonder at the plan to road the horses near GG. How do you plan to get them in our cultural control?

It was rather to road that tile, not connect the horses. I wanted a connection of our towns in the east - But it might not be the most pressing task maybe...

 

[Più Freddo]

Have been thinking about some names for our Graveyards (0..6), Cemetaries (7..12) and Nekropolises (13+):

Andronici Abbey
Blighty Bluff
Casper's Castle
Dungeon of Doom
Ectoplasm Emporium
Freaky Favela
Ghoul's Graveyard
Haunted Hollow
Ichor Island
Jeepers Junction
Key Krypt
Laban's Lair
MarkH Morgue
Nightmare Nekropolis
Occult Olympia
Oath-Breaker Ossuary
Paul's Putrefaction
Queasy Quagmire
Ravaged Ruins
Spooky Swamp
Torment Tombs
Uplands of the Undead
Vampire Vaults
Wraith Wastelands
Xhumation Xpanses
Yowling Yilard
Zombie Zone​

A bit tight for me and ControlFreak. C is taken, P is taken.

 

[Paul#42]

Have been thinking about some names for our Graveyards (0..6), Cemetaries (7..12) and Nekropolises (13+):

great ideas.

 

[Più Freddo]

the graphs are not too positive

It seems they have two more cities. We are just about to settle, they might have just settled, but they are still more than one city ahead. Perhaps they didn't build that early Curragh? I don't know.

Our strategies must be quite different, and we must keep to our fast-research path.

 

[markh]

That puts me up, I guess.

I will have a look at it tonight and post thoughts.

 

[ControlFreak]

2 reg Arab warriors (heading NE) block our cyan dot

I'm considering moving Cyan 1-SW and Orange 1-E if the Arabs don't get out of the way. Moving Cyan 1-SW (south of current settle position) would keep the free aquaduct on the lake, still have access to the river commerce tiles, gain a hill instead of a mountain and push our border a little farther towards the AI. Moving Orange E would allow the more centrally located horses to be in the border between Green and Orange. I think it's a one tile improvement to the congestion between CC and Blue, also but I haven't dotted a map.

We should also be cautious about settling an upprotected town right next to a bunch of AI attack units (unless we want to sacrifice the town for the sake of a war).

Love the names PF. Since we're going for domination, there eventually be a need for more than 26 towns. We'll get our town names eventually!

 

[Paul#42]

I'm pretty sure the Arabs will head on, we were only unlucky to encounter this divided stack. However if their target (barb camp?) depleted, they might turn right back...

Moving the cyan dot SW is an option - settling right where it is now also. If I look at Andro's size-12-chart, we only lose two plains but have another two deserts and a plains or even a lake to take instead.

I like the tight placement where the city center is almost the one used tile of a town that's closest to the capital. No need to go beyond size 12 in this game.

We should als consider to press hard towards south, there's a lot of unclaimed floodplains there...
Maybe our scout should check that area for approaching settlers?

 

[ControlFreak]

I'd rather not settle where the he is now because it seems to be inbetween two good sites. My vote would be to move him South next turn providing a free road towards the south (since the river tiles are bound to be roaded anyway).

The flood plain area is in the neutral zone between Zulu and Russia. Right now, with no military to speak of, isn't it sort of risking putting undefended towns between these agressive civs? Ultimately, I would probably be good to MA with one against the other, and claim these areas by force.

Not having played Demi God that much, how formidable are the troops for the AI. Can we plan to ramp up military enough to take on one foe, or should we MA within our own continent and let them deplete their forces before we start acquiring their lands? How much longer do we think REX will last before we need to get the military going?

 

[markh]

I just saw that denyd posted a got it after Paul's set. I will take it after denyd then.

 

[Paul#42]

bad manners, denyd...

But you know you could take it, Mark, so I think you stepped back "voluntarily"?

No problem with me, so it's

denyd - up
markh - on deck.

or was it just a got it for the mod pack?

 

[denyd]

Sorry, my mistake - I was about to ask Markh to take the turn while my ISP gets their act together. I lost access from home last night and according to the wife it's not back yet.

Just keep the original order and Markh is now up with me on deck.

 

[markh]

But you know you could take it, Mark, so I think you stepped back "voluntarily"?

Yeah, if somebody posts a "got it" you never know whether the player played on already, so it is safer to step back.

Ok, I got it then.

I had a short look at the game yesterday. In my opinion we should stick to the dotmap and go for the cyan dot. Settling where the settler is would make the core very crowded if we put a city in between.

I will have another look at it tonight and post a plan for my set.

 

[Paul#42]

Yeah, if somebody posts a "got it" you never know whether the player played on already, so it is safer to step back.

good judgement

In my opinion we should stick to the dotmap and go for the cyan dot. Settling where the settler is would make the core very crowded if we put a city in between.

Our discussion was on the situation when Hammu's (?) warriors keep blocking the cyan dot site. We should no spend another turn watching.

As one can see at Andro's tile allocation table, at the current site it would be dense placement, but not (too) crowded. Still all closer core cities will have sufficient tiles to work at size 12.

But cyan dot should be our highest priority and I think the warriors will continue to head NE.


What we need to discuss before you play is the opportunity to make some more dow-and-sign-peace-with-MA tricks on remote rivals. There are some more out there who will likely know each other but might be seperated by sea. Embassies with them cost ~60 bucks each but we'd only need one of them per trick and I think it will pay off.

the worker and the slave on forests are meant to chop for rax and horses.

 

[Più Freddo]

Embassies with them cost ~60 bucks each but we'd only need one of them per trick

I have made it a rule to establish both embassies before entering a war-alliance pair of agreements. The reason is, that once you get your happiness DoW, you can enter an alliance with the the enemy coupled to the new peace treaty. If you make peace with a tribe with which you have no embassy, you have to wait 20 turns before you can renegotiate and add an alliance. You also have the opportunity to reverse the alliance after 20 turns if the DoW doesn't come.

So in effect, you save no money by failing to establish the second embassy.

What else could we do with the money anyway?

 

[Paul#42]

Buy slaves or found deficite research?
We'll most likely keep our tech advantage so that's not really a reason...

Anybody care to analyse some couples of AI we'd like to send into the ring?

My first idea was to always dow the more backward AI because they are less likely to have something to trade...
Otoh the more advanced might sign peace sooner (providing us wh) because they have something to offer...
Anybody more experienced in this around?

 

[markh]

You will need to instruct me with this dow and make peace stuff. We try to get dowed by AIs to get war happiness ?

 

[Più Freddo]

Buy slaves or found deficit research?

Depending on how much money we have and how dearly we need happiness, we have to consider when to start (more?) phony wars.

My first idea was to always dow the more backward AI because they are less likely to have something to trade...
[...]
Anybody more experienced in this around?

No, klarius plays on another team. Anyway, I searched their SGOTM13 team thread and found these:

98

138

It would seem klarius says the opposite, but it might depend on the particular situation. Having the strongest make war on the weakest could be dangerous for us, they might die.

 

[Paul#42]

You will need to instruct me with this dow and make peace stuff. We try to get dowed by AIs to get war happiness ?

Basically it works like this:

Coose a pair of AI, victim and friend. The friend needs to lack a tech we are willing to give.

0. make sure that no gpt arrangements are in order with the victim and no turns left on a peace agreement with the friend (other gpt don't matter).
1. establish embassies, make sure your selected couple knows each other
2. chose first opponent (take all his cash if possible) and dow him
3. enter trade screen of our potential ally, select "Active deals", select "peace" and put it on the table. Add alliance against the victim and whatever it takes to make him agree.
4. seal the deal.

 

[markh]

Basically it works like this:

Coose a pair of AI, victim and friend. The friend needs to lack a tech we are willing to give.

0. make sure that no gpt arrangements are in order with the victim and no turns left on a peace agreement with the friend (other gpt don't matter).
1. establish embassies, make sure your selected couple knows each other
2. chose first opponent (take all his cash if possible) and dow him
3. enter trade screen of our potential ally, select "existing agreements" (?) ("Bisher" auf deutsch), select "peace" and put it on the table. Add alliance against the victim and whatever it takes to make him agree.
4. seal the deal.

Ah, ok. How do we control that one AI does not eliminate the other spoiling the victory condition ? We only do this when the two AIs are not on the same landmass ? Gift a town ?

 

[Paul#42]

No, klarius plays on another team. Anyway, I searched their SGOTM13 team thread and found these:

98

138

It would seem klarius says the opposite, but it might depend on the particular situation. Having the strongest make war on the weakest could be dangerous for us, they might die.

Well basically you need to stay peacefull with those you'd like to trade with. There was nothing they could trade to the tech leaders in that game.

That's different with us. The tech leaders might get the most money from other AI on the interturn, so they might be best friends for us - and we might want their techs (unless we capture TGL anywhere...)

Tech leaders are likely tougher to kill so you can dogpile on them - that's what we don't want anyway because we don't intend to lower the tech pace in this game, do we?

So let's stay friends with the tech leaders.

Ah, ok. How do we control that one AI does not eliminate the other spoiling the victory condition ? We only do this when the two AIs are not on the same landmass ? Gift a town ?

We have no absolute control.
If they share a landmass just make sure these civs are equally strong, have similar resources and none or both can start their GA with UUs in that span. We'll have to keep track of their town numbers and react if one is down to it's capital...
By gifting a town, bribing other AI, sending units to block...