SGOTM 15 - Xteam

[Htadus]

Aren't we a ways from researching to AP?

We are. But the plan is to have a GE for AP rushing and a GP for discoving Theology. We need to get these 2 out of the way and start on the war path. As for your wuestion in regards to the Settler vs Forge. that is needed to get guranteed GE by runing an Engineer in the Forge city.

The cool thing about GE is that if we feel we are way ahead of the AI we can build the AP with regular hammers and Bulb Machinary if needed.

 

[Cactus Pete]

If we get Theo, we can't bulb Astro, which looks like it may be needed.

 

[Htadus]

Witout Theo, we can not build the AP.

OK how about this alternative. We get the GE and GP but do not use them untill We here that Christianity has been founded elswhere. Untill then we run full stream toward astro bulb.

This should work as long as we have the GP's to do the bulbing in a hurry.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Makes sense. Still not convinced that we need to build the forge before a settler (or axes). If we wait until someone researches Theo, doesn't that delay the need for a GE?

 

[leif erikson]

To get two Great People costs 300 GPP's. With Gandhi, a specialist gains +3 GPP's per turn while a building seems to generate only +2 GPP's per turn. Even running concurrently, it will require some turns to pop both of them?

 

[Htadus]

Makes sense. Still not convinced that we need to build the forge before a settler (or axes). If we wait until someone researches Theo, doesn't that delay the need for a GE?

It has to do with the turn proximity of getting a GE after the Oracle is done. Else the GPro comes out first and the process to get the next GPerson as a GE takes longer time and as result delay other necessary GPersons. The delay is 34 turns.

To get two Great People costs 300 GPP's. With Gandhi, a specialist gains +3 GPP's per turn while a building seems to generate only +2 GPP's per turn. Even running concurrently, it will require some turns to pop both of them?

With Gandhi it is double the number. 6 vs 4

1st GP with 1 specialist is 100/6=16.6=>17 turns

1st GP with 1 WW is 100/4=25 turns

So if we can have the Forge built within 8 turns of the Oracle. we are golden. So if teh Settler and the forge can be done within 8 turns of the Oracel, we can build a settler first.

 

[zamint3]

Not easy to get on the server these days...

Did a T64 test with chop into settler and axe almost complete.
View attachment Ghandi BC-1440 T64 turn after Oracle z3.CivBeyondSwordSave

As long as we get the forge within 8 turn after the Oracle we'll have the GE before the GPro.

Eliminating the Astro bulb is a problem, but we have to build the AP don't we?
With Monotheism already gone we can't wait too long.

@MP: What ever way you go, we should road the grass NE of Delhi or we don't get stone connected.

Edit: Mids and Temple will speed up GE and GPro.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Server problems for several days here.

Looks pretty good, Z.

BTW, shouldn't we at least start an axe in Bombay, and any reason why you've started on Fishing?

 

[zamint3]

any reason why you've started on Fishing?

I was thinking a quick work boat out of city4.

 

[Mad Professor]

I was trying to get on 24 hours ago and couldn't. Seems to be over-busy server-wise.


Played Z’s test again. This time I think I was a little careless with the teching because I got to pottery a turn later. It has pottery-oracle T65 taking MC. This time instead of building a barracks in Delhi, I did a settler before going to axe. I have just about finished the axe on T65 and have 3 pre-chopped forests around Delhi, so the forge could be got quickly from here if wanted. This time though I have also settled a fourth city.

I’d like to actually play this for real sometime soon. Anyone got any further comments?

Here is the test save:
View attachment Ghandi BC-1400 test oracle settler axe.CivBeyondSwordSave

I was thinking this settler in Delhi was a good idea - in which case I'd want to settle before Oracle comes in. I'll play I think to Oracle and then hand it over - and I have to do that in the next two or three days or I turn into a pumpkin. More continent hopping.

Any last comment before I play to oracle? Particularly on build order, and whether a settler is the go and if so where to settle.

Edit: If there's been a good bit of commentary in the next 12 hours I might be able to see that and play in maybe 18 hours time. If not, I can wait another day or two...

 

[Mad Professor]

Did a T64 test with chop into settler and axe almost complete.

I'll have a look at your saves too in the next 12 hours Z.

 

[leif erikson]

I was trying to get on 24 hours ago and couldn't. Seems to be over-busy server-wise.

Yeah, the server has been a challenge. Sorry I haven't been much help of late, too much going on.

I’d like to actually play this for real sometime soon. Anyone got any further comments?

Please do.

I was thinking this settler in Delhi was a good idea - in which case I'd want to settle before Oracle comes in. I'll play I think to Oracle and then hand it over - and I have to do that in the next two or three days or I turn into a pumpkin. More continent hopping.

Any last comment before I play to oracle? Particularly on build order, and whether a settler is the go and if so where to settle.

Settler sounds desirable. Thinking we should settle the northern city, on the grass hill, as long as we can defend it. Hate to see the barbs beat us to the site and settle a less optimal location. Also, need a coastal city to get a scouting work boat out.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I'll have a look at your saves too in the next 12 hours Z.

Yes, that would be a good target.

 

[Mad Professor]

Settler sounds desirable. Thinking we should settle the northern city, on the grass hill, as long as we can defend it. Hate to see the barbs beat us to the site and settle a less optimal location. Also, need a coastal city to get a scouting work boat out.

That's two settlers. Just one before oracle I'm afraid, and an axe in between settlers might be a good idea - then after that we'll need more workers!

Which grass hill were you talking about specifically?

 

[leif erikson]

I'm a settler ahead of you...

In case I cannot get back on the forums, good luck.

edit - sorry, just realized your question.

Which grass hill were you talking about specifically?

In your 1880 BC/ Turn 53 actual game save, the grass hill 1 tile south of the northern Warrior, also could be called 2 south of the deer, on the coast.

 

[Mad Professor]

In your 1880 BC/ Turn 53 actual game save, the grass hill 1 tile south of the northern Warrior, also could be called 2 south of the deer, on the coast.

A grass hill in the north which is also coastal requires only one settler for the two In which case you're not a settler ahead of me after all.

Any other comments on the location of the next city after the gem city?

 

[Cactus Pete]

A grass hill in the north which is also coastal requires only one settler for the two In which case you're not a settler ahead of me after all. Please clarify this comment.

Any other comments on the location of the next city after the gem city?

City #4 needs to be on the coast and with deer and gold within the fat cross. What other option is being considered?

 

[leif erikson]

The tile where the number 4 sits?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Thinking of either on the '4' or on the adjacent forest as the same option. MP seemed to be asking about some other forest tile.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm happy to put it on that grass hill that Leif has indicated.

CP, my comment about being "a settler ahead" was because leif talked about a northern city on a grass hill and a coastal city and I understood that to be two cities and I was pointing out that after the gem city I'd only get one settler built so he was a settler ahead of me. When I realised that the "northern city on a grass hill" and the "coastal city" were one and the same city I realised we were talking about the same number of settlers - one!

City #4 needs to be on the coast and with deer and gold within the fat cross. What other option is being considered?

The grass hill where leif put the number 4 fits these criteria - it has gold and deer within the fat cross, and is on the coast. The fact that it's also on a hill increases its defense against possible barbarian visitors.

I'm itching to play this evening (GMT+11). I'm a little concerned that several players have not commented the last couple of days, but I'm also thinking there's not much in the way of contentious issues to discuss I don't think. The location of city #4 perhaps, but as CP says, and I agree, there are some criteria that need to be filled. The only other possibility might be the banana/crab site, but I think the northern one is more important. Otherwise, we want gem city settled 1NE of the gems, we're going for Oracle around T63 or T64, we want a settler in Delhi and a worker in Bombay, and an axe in Delhi as well if possible, and the worker turns and the whipping sequence I think I have fairly good - and we want some forest pre-chopped around Delhi. I think I'm ready to go?