SGOTM 15 - Xteam

[Cactus Pete]

Appreciate the testing and analysis. Don't think either approach is a looser but prefer Hawk's. We can always build a few warriors before a city is connected.

Stone should probably be quarried. SH will likely be helpful and could at least be partially built for gold.

Concur that barbs should not be a serious problem. More concerned about early DOW from agressive AI. Not likely in Vanilla. Any opinions on how likely it is in BTS?

 

[Htadus]

Before gunpowder, we can always gift our copper to an AI who already have it and start building as many MP's as we need. So the focus should be is REXing.

 

[zamint3]

Sorry, meant to attach the save:

Thank you.

Testing hunting first now, and it does look better.

Hope to improve your result.

 

[The-Hawk]

More concerned about early DOW from agressive AI. Not likely in Vanilla. Any opinions on how likely it is in BTS?

No, I have no experience with these settings. I suspect maintaining a reasonable power rating will help.

Before gunpowder, we can always gift our copper to an AI who already have it and start building as many MP's as we need.

I'm pretty sure we would have to trade it to an AI who does not have it. Resources that an AI already has are "redded out". Still something to consider if the AI already has iron.

 

[The-Hawk]

Hope to improve your result.

I hope you can! I was wondering if wheel before masonry would be better to connect the cities. I'm guessing not (the marble with a quarry is such a powerful tile). Also, I was wondering if slotting in an extra worker before the 3rd settler would be better. The two quarries take forever, there are lots of things for workers to do...

I will be on the road until Friday evening. I'll try to participate in the conversation, but will not be able to test.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice job testing.

Sorry, I've been getting the next Civ5 GOTM prepped.

Hope z3's testing confirms Hawk's approach, sound like a good way to go. Will give it a try this evening.

On Hawk's issues:

Given aggressive AI in another religion, do we want spears for defense?

I think this is a yes. I think we may need both Axes against Swords and Spears for Chariots. If we need more Warriors, we can, hopefully, pillage a road to it?

Do we think we will need a lot of MPs under HR? Will health become the limiting factor?

I hope not. I was hoping with the Stone we might be able to get the 'mids built and run Representation.

Do we need stone for wonders?

Yes, especially if we want 'mids.

I'd be careful about Stonehenge because if it is in the same city as Oracle, it is very difficult to get any other Great Leader besides a Prophet as I saw in my testing. Especially if we are going to try Htadus' plan for building the AP. We could build Oracle and 'mids in different cities, if we have one sufficiently developed, and then have two separate gene pools?

edit - Speaking of Oracle, shouldn't our timing be somewhere around turn 60? Hawk's test is up to turn 58 and we have not yet researched Priesthood? We also would have to have Pottery to take Metal Casting.

 

[Htadus]

There is another path that can include the SH.
In this we get the GP first but with the mids and a Forge the Second city can get a GE pretty fast if we build the Oracle in a third city.

@Hawk. I am almost sure I have gifted my metal to AI who had it before. May be I pillaged their metal to do this, can not remember.

 

[leif erikson]

There is another path that can include the SH.
In this we get the GP first but with the mids and a Forge the Second city can get a GE pretty fast if we build the Oracle in a third city.

What dates/turn numbers should we be aiming for?

 

[Htadus]

What dates/turn numbers should we be aiming for?

I will post a test late tonight and see. I have never done that route.

BTW Hawk, off topic question, were you oracle>Machinary for the Chinese Challenge?

 

[The-Hawk]

BTW Hawk, off topic question, were you oracle>Machinary for the Chinese Challenge?

Do you mean game 2 (where we had to play China) or game 10 (where most of us played China)?

Game 2 (emperor hemisphere dom): I never built Oracle. I don't remember why not, maybe I was too concerned about messing up my Astronomy bulb path with a prophet. Or maybe I didn't have marble?

Game 10 (diety religious): I oracled Theology.

 

[Htadus]

Game 2 Hawk.

Sorry leif, out of time tonight. I will try to contribute soon.
BTW, where are you Undecided?

This game is diplo nightmare.

I found the following from dj_anon's pdf

Diplo Points for Toku:
base: 0, share war: +1 (max. +3)
favourite civic: +1 (max. +4) (he likes merc>Banking)
same religion: +1 (max. +5)
different religion: –2
close cultural borders: max. –3
worse/better rank difference: –2/0

 

[Undecided]

I'm still here. I had to to some stuff on short notice. Had time to follow the discussion but not to comment (yet).

First of all, nice testing everybody.
I will take a look at hawk's save today and try to copy/improve it as good as possible. I think it's the better one right now (sry zamint )

How many turns should i play in the upcoming turnset? What would be a good stopping point in your opinion? T57 like the tests or is 36 Turns "too long" in SGotM terms.

I'll post my opinions about the other topics of the discussion after taking a look at the save.

 

[zamint3]

I will take a look at hawk's save today and try to copy/improve it as good as possible. I think it's the better one right now (sry zamint )

No hard feelings...

Actually I think it was CP and Htadus who didn't favour this approach, I just tested it.

I tested Hunting first and get very the much the same as Hawk
I would road the cities earlier and I think we should stay at 9 units if possible to avoid upkeep.

I also played on from Hawks T57 (hunting) and my own T57 (no hunting) and they are very much the same.
We will get Oracle two turns earlier without hunting!

 

[leif erikson]

I'm still here. I had to to some stuff on short notice. Had time to follow the discussion but not to comment (yet).

How many turns should i play in the upcoming turnset? What would be a good stopping point in your opinion? T57 like the tests or is 36 Turns "too long" in SGotM terms.

Would like to see about 20 to 25 turns, depending, most likely, upon what tech we discover. We can decide specifically once we see what we are planning to do.

I'll post my opinions about the other topics of the discussion after taking a look at the save.

Apologies that I did not set a very good example for a turn set plan for the first set. In the past, we have done something like (not necessarily in order):

1. City Builds (including Wonders) and Micromanagement

2. Worker Actions

3. Unit Actions

4. Civic Changes

5. Tech Path

6. Special Events

Also, if you need help testing anything specific or are undecided ( ) about an issue or event, please let us know.

Hope that helps.

 

[Htadus]

No hard feelings...

Actually I think it was CP and Htadus who didn't favour this approach, I just tested it.

Hay.....I resemble that comment.

I was initially pro skipping Hunting but I was converted by Hawks testing.

BTW if we are concerned about settling on a resource and assuming neil did not alter the map too much, we can settle on forest tiles. Just send any idol worker to chop the 8 or so hammers first when possible.

 

[Undecided]

Ok so I tried to improve hawk's approach and so far i have no luck doing it. Which is good i guess.

I get the impression that most of the team members are pro-hunting so the more interesting question regarding the tech path is masonry->wheel or wheel->masonry.
I prefer the ladder because horses don't like rivers in this game. (Of course the mapmaker could have mercy with the horses.) I might be biased though because i really like The Wheel.
In case there are no horses, it's closer, perhaps with a slight advantage for masonry first.

Regardless i will stop after the discovery of AH to discuss the consequences for our next settlement and techpath. Then play through till the completion of wheel or masonry.(~T41-45) This would be a good stopping point imo. Then the next Turnset would be dedicated to getting the oracle.
Only a suggestion though, i am addicted enough to play more.

If everybody is fine with this and there are no other issues worth to discuss, i would post a PPP tomorrow and then play as soon as i get the "ok" from you all. Btw, can i play from the save leif uploaded in the thread or should i delete from my save folder and download the one from central?

 

[leif erikson]

If everybody is fine with this and there are no other issues worth to discuss, i would post a PPP tomorrow and then play as soon as i get the "ok" from you all. Btw, can i play from the save leif uploaded in the thread or should i delete from my save folder and download the one from central?

The save posted in the thread,here, is the same save as was uploaded to the server.

If in doubt, you should always use the one at central as long as you have made no moves in the game that are irreversible.

Once you post the ppp, you are saying you are ready to play. Giving your teammates 24 hours to comment is preferable. Once you've "got it", the mouse is in your hand and, as long as you are comfortable, it is yours to play.

edit - just comprehended this:

Regardless i will stop after the discovery of AH to discuss the consequences for our next settlement and techpath. Then play through till the completion of wheel or masonry.(~T41-45) This would be a good stopping point imo. Then the next Turnset would be dedicated to getting the oracle.
Only a suggestion though, i am addicted enough to play more.

Bold is my addition.
You do need to be careful because playing beyond can be easy to do by accident, especially if you are not used to it (Right Htadus?)


Stopping at the discovery of AH is a good thing.

 

[Undecided]

Thanks for the clarification leif, i will use the Alt+M reminder to ensure that i don't play too many turns.
I realised that i was altering the sequence of events a bit, sorry for the confusion everybody.

 

[leif erikson]

You're doing fine Undecided.

Was playing with Hawk's tested procedure and played on a bit. Oracle was built in a foreign land on turn 67 - 1320 BC.

Need to plan on Oracle before turn 65? How have others found this date?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looking forward to the plan.