SGOTM 15 - Xteam

[Htadus]

Gret progress CP.

I am a bit concern about Theo and AP. Would it be too crazy to tech mono and get AP out of the way? Of course there is the possibility that the AP VC is no longer attainable to an AI due to all the relligions being founded. We may need to test this idea. Actually if we can wait until this weekend (6days from now) I will run a test and others can too.

Also I have been thinking about another way to nerf AP or enable AP. What if we all but kill toku and leave him with a city that has no religion or we found a city with hindu and let him take it before peace. We keep him alive in that city with hindu religion. It would work even better if he DoW us for other reasons. This way we can use the GE to bulb Machinary.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Gret progress CP.

I am a bit concern about Theo and AP. Would it be too crazy to tech mono Please clarity. We have already researched Monotheisim. and get AP out of the way? Of course there is the possibility that the AP VC is no longer attainable to an AI due to all the relligions being founded. We may need to test this idea. Actually if we can wait until this weekend (6days from now) I will run a test and others can too. Couldn't they always just send a missionary and convert a city.

Also I have been thinking about another way to nerf AP or enable AP. What if we all but kill toku and leave him with a city that has no religion or we found a city with hindu and let him take it before peace. See above. We keep him alive in that city with hindu religion. It would work even better if he DoW us for other reasons. This way we can use the GE to bulb Machinary.

"We could save some gold if we switch out of mono" Do you mean out of OR? After last barracks built, probably should consider that.

Hadn't noticed Egyptian double ivory. Better build a spear for the eastern front and be prepared to build more if a trade is made.

Probably should attack as soon as we have enough cats after the corn is ours. Actually concerned that Toku will retreat units from Osaka, where they will be least difficult to destroy.

 

[zamint3]

Of course there is the possibility that the AP VC is no longer attainable to an AI due to all the relligions being founded.

I don't get this, should that prevent the AI from building the AP

Apparently hatshe has two ivory and toku two copper for trade. Elephants+cats would really wreck us.

Actually concerned that Toku will retreat units from Osaka, where they will be least difficult to destroy.

It'll be a walk in the park.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice progress CP.

Got our GE and the makings of an Army.

Roster:
zamint3 - UP
leif - On Deck
Undecided
Mad Professor
The-Hawk
Htadus
Cactus Pete

While I am concerned about the getting Med and the AP built, that stack in Osaka is a bit worrisome when we do not have Cats yet. The good news is that the threat index is at Elevated for everyone and no one is in WHEOOH.

I am also at a loss for the AI gaining AP victory. I suppose if they built it under a religion other than Buddhism? Don't see that possibility atm?

Don't like the Ivory and Copper possibilities either.

This is going to be a tough one. Sooner we can get Toku east under control, the better?

 

[Htadus]

@CP

Mono-Medi whats the big diff . Meditation is what should have been said.

Sure an AI could try to send a missionary, but if he is within the mountains and our culture boundary. the AP AI will need OB with us. That reminds me of something; GM's can go into AI lands w/o OB. Wouldnt it be nice if we have one?

@Z

No they can build the AP, but it may be in a different religion. Also that may open the door to AP VC since the owner of AP does not need to run that religion to qualify to win AP.

If Toku DoW us and we leave him alive with a single hindu city, we gain a new ally. As normal he will switch to our religion and we can make him our buddie. Then we go after AP city regardless of the religion. Thereby opening the AP VC potential.

BTW, a while back I mentioned that an AI was placing 5 points per turn on us. No body cought on to it, so I will revisit. Since it was not the AI with GW, it seem the other AI was making 5 EPT. That mean that AI has a castle in the capital since the capital produce 4 EPT and castle give 25% boost. I am guessing that all land accessible AI have castles in their capitals.

AP may be the fastest as long as someone else build it.

 

[Cactus Pete]

@CP

Mono-Medi whats the big diff . Meditation is what should have been said. YOU WERE SUGGESTING THAT BUILDING THE AP IS SUFFICIENTLY CRITICAL THAT WE SHOULD POSTPONE CONSTRUCTION AND ATTACKING TOKU IN ORDER TO RESEARCH MED NOW?

Sure an AI could try to send a missionary, but if he is within the mountains and our culture boundary. the AP AI will need OB with us. So if we never open our borders, the AP cannot beat us, just cause poblems?

If Toku DoW us and we leave him alive with a single hindu city, we gain a new ally. Getting an AI to take even an undefended city is problematic. As normal he will switch to our religion and we can make him our buddie. Then we go after AP city regardless of the religion. Thereby opening the AP VC potential. Perhaps we could reduce the AI to one religion-less city, then convert and gift him either one of his own former cities or a close junk city.

BTW, a while back I mentioned that an AI was placing 5 points per turn on us. No body cought on to it, so I will revisit. Since it was not the AI with GW, it seem the other AI was making 5 EPT. That mean that AI has a castle in the capital since the capital produce 4 EPT and castle give 25% boost. I am guessing that all land accessible AI have castles in their capitals. So, we need lots of cats.

AP may be the fastest as long as someone else build it.

Well, then, do we need Meditation (and Theo)?

 

[leif erikson]

No they can build the AP, but it may be in a different religion. Also that may open the door to AP VC since the owner of AP does not need to run that religion to qualify to win AP.

If Toku DoW us and we leave him alive with a single hindu city, we gain a new ally. As normal he will switch to our religion and we can make him our buddie. Then we go after AP city regardless of the religion. Thereby opening the AP VC potential.

AP may be the fastest as long as someone else build it.

Once all civs have the AP religion, then voting can begin iirc?

If the AP is built in the Buddhist religion, and we take a Toku city with Buddhism in it, the voting for victory can start, no?
edit - does the civ with the AP have to have met all the other civs?

If another civ builds the AP and they are unknown to us, how are we supposed to go after the city it is in?

This whole thing sounds kind of dicey.

 

[Htadus]

Once all civs have the AP religion, then voting can begin iirc?Then the option to propose for AP victory becomes available

If the AP is built in the Buddhist religion, and we take a Toku city with Buddhism in it, the voting for victory can start, no?Only if another of Toku cities have Buddhism
edit - does the civ with the AP have to have met all the other civs? Now that is a good question. I do not know

If another civ builds the AP and they are unknown to us, how are we supposed to go after the city it is in?Well that will require we do some searching and a GM can help in this case immensly

This whole thing sounds kind of dicey.

Yes that is true.

Sure an AI could try to send a missionary, but if he is within the mountains and our culture boundary. the AP AI will need OB with us. So if we never open our borders, the AP cannot beat us, just cause poblems?

As long as we leave toku alive and inland and with our religion and we do not open border with AP AI, yes it will cause problems in cities with AP religion only.

 

[Mad Professor]

edit - does the civ with the AP have to have met all the other civs?

I know that with the UN, it automatically makes all civs meet all civs. Does the AP do the same??

I know this about the UN by the way by playing a modern start where UN can be built, and the AI's often put engineers on in straight away in a modern start, getting an early GE, and if one uses it to build the UN, every player on every continent immediately meets all other players. I have no knowledge about whether the AP works the same way though...?

 

[Undecided]

"We could save some gold if we switch out of mono"

Do you mean out of OR? After last barracks built, probably should consider that.

Yes i meant OR, sorry for the confusion.

Right now we're at 13 gpt civic maintenance, PS+OR will cost us 14gpt, Rep alone costs 11gpt, PS alone costs 12gpt. Don't know if pulling the units back has an effect, the article i read is quite old. We might still be in the range of free supported units.

Regarding AP:

There will be no contact between every AI once the AP is built but the AP-resident is able to propose certain resolutions, besides the diplo victory, even if there is no contact between every civ.

Here are all prereqs and proposals listed, if you want to take a look at what we (or they) could face if the AP is build by them (or us).

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/apostolicpalace.php

 

[Cactus Pete]

Thanks, Undecided. I was not informed on all of this AP stuff.

 

[zamint3]

Roster:
zamint3 - UP

Got it! - But not exactly sure how to proceed.

AP or not? I would say: yes!

When? I would say: research Construction first, then Meditation.

Where? I would say Pat. Could be gifted to Hammu later if AP victory should become possible.

Apart from that: Chop as many cats as possible as fast as possible.

Would like to build a Library in Delhi and maybe a couple of Spears in Bombay and Vija, and how about a cottage or two in Delhi?

Input needed!

Screenies for Hawk and the Peanut Gallery:

Spoiler :

West:

East:

North:

 

[Cactus Pete]

Congrats, Z, on your quick conquest in GOTM75.

"Apart from that: Chop as many cats as possible as fast as possible. Of course.

Would like to build a Library in Delhi [Can't see running specialists when we are needing units for war.]and maybe a couple of Spears in Bombay and Vija [Until we see a chariot, think spears are not best use of hammers, but one near Bombay would be prudent.], and how about a cottage or two in Delhi? Not sure more than one will be useful right now, as, again, we need hammers for units.

Input needed! "

Your not getting much input here, but I have little experience with the AP in BtS, so not anxious to add noise.

 

[leif erikson]

Sorry, been trying to get Civ5 game ready for tomorrow.

Got it! - But not exactly sure how to proceed.

Yeah, this one is a tough one to figure out.

AP or not? I would say: yes!

I say yes too.

When? I would say: research Construction first, then Meditation.

Agree, complete Construction and then Med while praying to our Hindu God that AP is not built.

Where? I would say Pat. Could be gifted to Hammu later if AP victory should become possible.

Either Pat or Varanasi, in case we need to gift...

Cultural victory is not looking too promising.

Apart from that: Chop as many cats as possible as fast as possible.

Yes, chop, chop, chop!

Pop rush too?

Would like to build a Library in Delhi and maybe a couple of Spears in Bombay and Vija, and how about a cottage or two in Delhi?

it says three turns to build it, so after the Axe you should be able to get it in before Cats can be built. Our beaker per turn is not good. Of course, if we can extort tech, that is even better.

Cottages are good too.

Got to keep some protection to the north as Hammurgawa is +6 with Toku, they have Open Border and +4 for religion. We could get backstabbed for declaring on Toku.

Near Pat, shouldn't we be mining the hill along the rover for the +1 commerce?
We do need to get Pat's hammers output up in case Hammu attacks.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Near Pat, shouldn't we be mining the hill along the rover for the +1 commerce?" Yes, and a road should go through there, but other improvements are also needed.

 

[leif erikson]

From the Maintenance thread:

A warning to all teams.

We are currently investigating a potential bug.

The result of this is that the WHEOORN fist may or may not be displaying properly.

While we are investigating, then I suggest that if you want to know WHEOORN status, you talk to each of the AI.

 

[Htadus]

Well, well, I had nothing to do with it this time .

So Hatty got Horses and Elephants but can only build chariots.
Hammy got Horses and Swords, and
Toku can build swords. So he really got to go. And we need a couple spears as Z3 stated.

If we intend to gift the AP it need to be near the AI and preferably a piece of crap. As for building AP or not. I guess we should play it safe. I won't have time untill too late for testing, so I "in" with the crowd.

EDIT: Yes to Lib in capital or Vijay. They both can run 2 scientist. We need Some of them for this game.

 

[zamint3]

Sorry, been trying to get Civ5 game ready for tomorrow.

No problem.
How are things over there at the Civ5 forums? Are we about to have a patch that people can agree on?

Congrats, Z, on your quick conquest in GOTM75.

You didn't do so bad your self.

@CP: Do you want to build axes in Delhi where until cats are available?

 

[Cactus Pete]

@CP: Do you want to build axes in Delhi where until cats are available?

Perhaps one spear first, but, yes. We will lose many units fighting Japan and will probably want to fight Egypt soon after if we are not dealing with the Babs, so I'm for training soldiers not scholars at the moment. Then only cats once we can.

 

[leif erikson]

No problem.
How are things over there at the Civ5 forums? Are we about to have a patch that people can agree on?

Things are going pretty well. I have found it interesting that many of the Civ4 players have not shown up at Civ5, so with GOTM we really have two, mostly, separate audiences.

In May, an expansion pack is coming out called Gods & Kings that you can read about in this forum. The rumor is that the .dll file will also be released, so we might get to create a mod. Who knows? I have been playing a lot of Civ5 lately for testing. I like it, but it is very different from Civ4.

@CP: Do you want to build axes in Delhi where until cats are available?

Perhaps one spear first, but, yes. We will lose many units fighting Japan and will probably want to fight Egypt soon after if we are not dealing with the Babs, so I'm for training soldiers not scholars at the moment. Then only cats once we can.

I always seem to build units too late when I play, trying to catch up in tech. I agree with CP that units have priority and that we should gain beakers by the pointy stick. A rather reliable method of beaker enhancement...