Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Yeah, I'm good with it. It's better than anything I managed, for sure.
SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Yeah, I'm good with it. It's better than anything I managed, for sure.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I'm so upset with that mine that i did not posted, trying to calm myself. I think i'm calm enough now.
That is the worse tile to improve: 4H, no commerce.
If we build the settler working the farmed FP we gain 1c, then chop/mine the RIVERSIDE hill and we gain another commerce. I made clear what i did in my tests and i made clear that Oracle has to be completed on turn 60 at most, i mean the free tech screen on that turn.
It's not Folket's mistake, it's a mistake of someone who suggested that move and mine, because i would have been even clearer. If you don't even deign to listen to me, go ahead with your plan. If we lose the Oracle i'll take my decisions.
p.s. in one of my tests i played half-sloppy after the Oracle for some10-15 turns and i never went to that hill we're now mining. And we're mining it as the 2nd task.
That is the worse tile to improve: 4H, no commerce.
If we build the settler working the farmed FP we gain 1c, then chop/mine the RIVERSIDE hill and we gain another commerce. I made clear what i did in my tests and i made clear that Oracle has to be completed on turn 60 at most, i mean the free tech screen on that turn.
It's not Folket's mistake, it's a mistake of someone who suggested that move and mine, because i would have been even clearer. If you don't even deign to listen to me, go ahead with your plan. If we lose the Oracle i'll take my decisions.
p.s. in one of my tests i played half-sloppy after the Oracle for some10-15 turns and i never went to that hill we're now mining. And we're mining it as the 2nd task.
I'm sorry for that. I saw that something was wrong with your green light and gave you some hours to explain. But I did not want to delay an other day when it seemed that everyone was in on the plan. So what is best now? Cancel the mine or finish it?
I have fallen ill. But I may still be able to take my turn.
My tests are showing that we will get the settler one turn earlier and regrow Paris to size 3 while building a warrior faster if we adopt bronze working at once. It seems like like we can get more hammers into a second worker at size 3 if we revolt when the settler is moving. But we will not get hammers into a third warrior. It is just my guess we will have a second worker. We also get cottage done one turn earlier.
So my new PPP.
My worker to forest riverside plains hill. Cut forest, build mine then move to floodplain and start on a cottage/farm.
or
Finish mine, go to plain tile where we want road, cut forest, build road, move to floodplain and start on cottage/farm.
Research pottery then research mysticism/writing.
Paris build warrior to size 3 then start settler. Either finish settler with chop and whip or only a chop. Then finish warrior next build worker or build warrior till size 3. Paris will work improved hill and flood plains.
Orleans will start with building a warrior while working flood plains.
I have fallen ill. But I may still be able to take my turn.
My tests are showing that we will get the settler one turn earlier and regrow Paris to size 3 while building a warrior faster if we adopt bronze working at once. It seems like like we can get more hammers into a second worker at size 3 if we revolt when the settler is moving. But we will not get hammers into a third warrior. It is just my guess we will have a second worker. We also get cottage done one turn earlier.
So my new PPP.
My worker to forest riverside plains hill. Cut forest, build mine then move to floodplain and start on a cottage/farm.
or
Finish mine, go to plain tile where we want road, cut forest, build road, move to floodplain and start on cottage/farm.
Research pottery then research mysticism/writing.
Paris build warrior to size 3 then start settler. Either finish settler with chop and whip or only a chop. Then finish warrior next build worker or build warrior till size 3. Paris will work improved hill and flood plains.
Orleans will start with building a warrior while working flood plains.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Don't stress over it. I'm pretty sure one you did just as you had planned to do. If anyone wanted you to not play and wait to change something, they would have been thorough and posted a DO NOT PLAY message.
Your turnset is fine. You haven't ruined the whole game. We are doing just fine!
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I agree that mining the hill might seem like a stupid idea as second task, but:
- While building settler, the farmed FP has only one commerce advantage compared to the mined PH.
- We get the PH improved much sooner
- we are working that FP, so no commerce is lost
I don't see the big loss here, it might be better the way Folket played than farming the FP first. (And we did agree with the PPP, which had all the information)
Moving forward:
I really like ZPV's plan. Turn 62 Oracle is nice, and if we lose it, we still have a nice empire with library, GS generation, and decent growth rate.
How will we go about fogbusting? We are going with warrior defense, so we need to make some of those guys urgently. The problem with warriors is their cost. Going minimal is risky, and many warriors are costy (not hammer wise, but rather because of unit supply). Maybe we could get away with ~5 warriors in the early phase. The north and northeast will be fogbusted by the wolf and the capital's popping culture. We need a guy on the east, one at Orleans, one on the south, and one in the capital. The fifth guy could sit somewhere between the cities so he can be sent to either city if needed.
- While building settler, the farmed FP has only one commerce advantage compared to the mined PH.
- We get the PH improved much sooner
- we are working that FP, so no commerce is lost
I don't see the big loss here, it might be better the way Folket played than farming the FP first. (And we did agree with the PPP, which had all the information)
Moving forward:
I really like ZPV's plan. Turn 62 Oracle is nice, and if we lose it, we still have a nice empire with library, GS generation, and decent growth rate.
How will we go about fogbusting? We are going with warrior defense, so we need to make some of those guys urgently. The problem with warriors is their cost. Going minimal is risky, and many warriors are costy (not hammer wise, but rather because of unit supply). Maybe we could get away with ~5 warriors in the early phase. The north and northeast will be fogbusted by the wolf and the capital's popping culture. We need a guy on the east, one at Orleans, one on the south, and one in the capital. The fifth guy could sit somewhere between the cities so he can be sent to either city if needed.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
No, but it hurts me, see below
turn 62 Oracle is failure gold, nothing else. A 700 beakers tech can let us shut off the research for how many turns, provided we're so stupid?
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Maybe so. Maybe not. But it is a team game and goodness knows we haven't had a great amount of success in the past basing all major decisions on mine and your playing style. Let's be happy with new ideas and see if the new ideas can lead us to victory. Sure can't make our finish any worse than the last few games.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
It was a misunderstanding then. But what's done is done...
I don't agree on that t62 oracle=fail thing. Plastic Ducks had oracle on t62 in SGOTM 14. IIRC they could have done it on turn 61, but decided against it, because it would have costed too much. This was against team AI, they have 50% research bonus. That is not the case here. As far as I see from ZPV's analysis, there is no sign of many myst leaders either. So t62 Oracle is a decent date. We should run some random oracle tests (=enter pressing) to have a clearer idea about when the AI build it. (or find similar tests somewhere)
I don't agree on that t62 oracle=fail thing. Plastic Ducks had oracle on t62 in SGOTM 14. IIRC they could have done it on turn 61, but decided against it, because it would have costed too much. This was against team AI, they have 50% research bonus. That is not the case here. As far as I see from ZPV's analysis, there is no sign of many myst leaders either. So t62 Oracle is a decent date. We should run some random oracle tests (=enter pressing) to have a clearer idea about when the AI build it. (or find similar tests somewhere)
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
That is how I see it. We just need to be sure that every move of every unit counts. We have to be able to reproduce ZPVs test as close as possible and we have to have the Oracle NLT T62.
I have done test runs to see when oracle is built and I think we are on safe side.
continents, turn 74
Pangaea, defeated on turn 65, no oracle
Big and small, turn 81
I could run more tests but turn 62 is much earlier then the AI seem to be building it.
Perhaps BLubmuz is to used to playing diety.
continents, turn 74
Pangaea, defeated on turn 65, no oracle
Big and small, turn 81
I could run more tests but turn 62 is much earlier then the AI seem to be building it.
Perhaps BLubmuz is to used to playing diety.
I now see that we are on a hemisphere map. Seems like the AI is building oracle earlier on those.
hemisphere, turn 65, 63, 71
Still it look ok to me.
Saying that turn 62 is failgold is a little aggresive.
I think it is possible to have oracle on turn 61 with a small sacrifice in growth in Orleans.
hemisphere, turn 65, 63, 71
Still it look ok to me.
Saying that turn 62 is failgold is a little aggresive.
I think it is possible to have oracle on turn 61 with a small sacrifice in growth in Orleans.
old PPP
t 25
move worker to 1NE of paris and build road for one turn,
start settler in Paris
t 26
move worker to 1W of Paris
t 27
chop 1W of Paris
t 30
farm FP
t32
Pottery finished, start writing
t 34
move settler to FP
Revolt to slavery
Warrior will go W, W, SW, W, then try to go on hills and forests in a circle a few (2-3) squares from oasis. After completing circle it will scout SE to jungle then continue south to find Brennus
t 25
move worker to 1NE of paris and build road for one turn,
start settler in Paris
t 26
move worker to 1W of Paris
t 27
chop 1W of Paris
t 30
farm FP
t32
Pottery finished, start writing
t 34
move settler to FP
Revolt to slavery
Warrior will go W, W, SW, W, then try to go on hills and forests in a circle a few (2-3) squares from oasis. After completing circle it will scout SE to jungle then continue south to find Brennus
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