SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[Shaandore]

Folket,

please try editing your posts instead of making a new post with every idea. (I guess that this is in forum rules...)

I would prefer a turn-by-turn PPP (see my PPPs), because I can examine it much better. And it is easier to spot a wasted worker turn or other things that can be optimized.

I am happy to see that your oracle tests show 100% oracle on t62. The more tests we run, the better we can estimate the actual probability that the oracle is built by the AI after t62.

On promotions: I prefer to stop for healing, and give the promotion only when a combat is coming. (so I can promote to cover if I see an archer, or guerilla if there are no forests aroud)

I'm sorry to hear that you are ill.
I hope you get better soon!

 

[Folket]

I did update my PPP but there has been no more comments. I guess I will wait for tomorrow to play them then.

 

[ZPV]

Folket,

please try editing your posts instead of making a new post with every idea. (I guess that this is in forum rules...)

I have to disagree with this. Edited posts don't give notifications, so it looks like there's been no thread activity when really there is new content.
Updating a post on relevant content soon after it is posted is fine, but adding completely different ideas should probably be done in a new post.


@Folket: I'll have a look at your PPP and reply in a few minutes.

 

[ZPV]

Current PPP
t 25
move worker to 1W of paris,
start settler in Paris
t 27
chop 1W of Paris
t 30
farm FP
t 34
move settler to FP
Revolt to slavery

Warrior will go SE, then SW until it hits jungle and then turn NW

Worker moves:
I suggest to build a half-road on the corn on t25 (and then cancel the worker action before you press End Turn)
We don't lose any worker turns by chopping the forest 1W of Paris, compared to the one NW, because the latter is two tiles away from the floodplains - it just moves the travel turn forward a bit. I suggested that forest because it will leave a grassland river - something we're more likely to want to improve and work than a plains river.

EDIT: I'd like to leave the forest SW of Paris in place, because that will be a convenient forest to chop into Orleans without pushing our worker off into the middle of nowhere.

Warrior moves:
I'd like you to flesh out the priorities a bit.
e.g.
1. Keep the warrior alive.
2. Explore the region around the oasis, in case there's a super city site where we want to plant Orleans and/or adjust the dotmap.
3. Uncover some more of the area bordering the jungle.
4. Gain some idea of where Brennus is.
5. Move into fog/spawnbusting position.

From these the moves which suggest themselves to me are something like
West onto the hill - SW if there's no danger - west, hoping for the best - west onto the plains forest hill - and then try and loop around the oasis cautiously. Forests and jungles give the best chances of survival, but if there's a threatening archer, run unless you have a forest hill.

Unless it's necessary to save a lot of turns healing, I'd avoid promoting the warrior until the last minute - woodsman will be great if/when it reaches a forest to fortify and barb-bust, but if you move onto defenceless terrain (which you will sometimes have to do), you will want to be able to promote to Combat I immediately.

 

[Shaandore]

Current PPP
t 25
move worker to 1W of paris,
start settler in Paris
t 27
chop 1W of Paris
t 30
farm FP
t 34
move settler to FP
Revolt to slavery

Warrior will go SE, then SW until it hits jungle and then turn NW

Please specify the warrior moves. And add the techs to the PPP. When will we have Pottery ready? BTW do we have an agreement on Pottery next ? It's been mentioned many times, but still needs to be in PPP somewhere. (like "switch to Pottery" and "Pottery is in, start Writing", provided that we agree with ZPV's path.)
What about warrior 2? I cannot open the save now, but we will get that before the settler, right?

I wouldn't play this turnset just yet.

On the posting thing: ZPV is right, I didn't write what I intended . So 8 post chain is too much, it means you didn't think it through. But posting a new idea in an old post isn't good either.
Maybe it is best if you just ignore what I said about the posting thing, I don't want to discourage you, your activity does make the team better, so carry on!

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

On the posting thing: ZPV is right, I didn't write what I intended . So 8 post chain is too much, it means you didn't think it through. But posting a new idea in an old post isn't good either.
Maybe it is best if you just ignore what I said about the posting thing, I don't want to discourage you, your activity does make the team better, so carry on!

I'll edit the post if it's an a reasonably short time frame. In every case, if I edit a post, I'll drop a couple lines and write EDIT: in all caps. Helps people see it.

 

[unclethrill]

I agree that we need more details on the PPP. At this stage of the game every movement point and turn counts. Generalized PPPs are fine later on in the game but right now we need turn by turn details as best as you can estimate.

 

[Folket]

I did not post the warrior moves as I was hoping for feedback on where to move it. I will update the PPP soon.

Regarding the technologies that was an oversight from me. I will update that as well.

 

[Folket]

I did some update on the PPP.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

I have a conference this week, and will be out until the week-end. I'll do my best to check in, but if I'm unresponsive, that's why...

MF

 

[Folket]

A full day and not a single comment on my PPP?

 

[unclethrill]

Been busy in RL. Will look tonight.

 

[ZPV]

Some more questions, that I'd like to see answered in the PPP:
How many turns will you play?
What could happen that makes you stop early for discussion?
What are your plans diplomatically? (e.g. if Brennus makes a demand or we meet someone else)
What are you going to do, to make sure there isn't an animal in the wrong place when the settler wants to move?

I'd love for the warrior plans to be more precise, so that when there's a tough decision you can look at what you wrote, and then have a good idea of what to do.

 

[Folket]

The only demand I can think of would be to convert to Hinduism. Perhaps we could do that? I think the earlier discussion can to the conclusion that we will convert to Hinduism if asked.

If they get writing before us I would accept open borders.

If our warrior gets killed I would stop the game and upload it here.

on turn 25 border will pop in Paris. That will give us vision of all squares around Orleans. To me that is safe enough.

The warrior could walk W, W, SW, W, SW, SW, SE, SE, E, NE, NE and arrive one turn before settler. But I would prefer to explore more. There is one turn left on the warrior when settler starts. We could finish that one is people are uncomfortable.

Any estimates on which turn the Barbarians will start to enter borders?

warrior plan, something like.
Try to keep distance from barbarian archers. Not attacking animals but letting them attack me in forests or hills. Scout area west of oasis for six turns then go to the SE to traverse the jungle.

 

[unclethrill]

The only demand I can think of would be to convert to Hinduism. Perhaps we could do that? I think the earlier discussion can to the conclusion that we will convert to Hinduism if asked.

I don't know that we gain much from the turn of anarchy we will take. We are gonna kill him soon as possible anyway so whether he is happy with us or not matters little.


on turn 25 border will pop in Paris. That will give us vision of all squares around Orleans. To me that is safe enough.
Agreed. If we have eyes around he settler then it should be okay.
The warrior could walk W, W, SW, W, SW, SW, SE, SE, E, NE, NE and arrive one turn before settler. But I would prefer to explore more. There is one turn left on the warrior when settler starts. We could finish that one is people are uncomfortable.

Any estimates on which turn the Barbarians will start to enter borders?

warrior plan, something like.
Try to keep distance from barbarian archers. Not attacking animals but letting them attack me in forests or hills. Scout area west of oasis for six turns then go to the SE to traverse the jungle.

If you are only playing 13 more turns I doubt you will see any archers but definitely stay away unless you can turtle up on a forested hill and they have to attack across water.

 

[ZPV]

My instinct is that agreeing to a conversion demand makes sense, but I don't believe we actually have the trade network connection for religious spread to take place (one of us must research Sailing first).
"As soon as possible" for killing Brennus is still a relatively long way off - plenty of time to milk him to Friendly and get him to trade his monopoly classical/medieval techs.

I expect real barbs to start spawning around t33 or t34, but we can know for sure by monitoring the population data on the demographics screen. Avoid any unnecessary animal battles (except against wolves which are free XP).
Remember that animals cannot enter resource tiles, except to attack, so that can provide a few tiles you know don't contain an animal.

What's your methodology for exploring? Even that needs a purpose to focus on - it could be there are particular tiles we want to uncover, or else ruling out possible locations for Bibracte, or uncovering a coastal connection to the south (which would most likely be the west coast).
Taking another look at the area around Orleans, yes I think I'm willing to take that risk, unless we see a wolf loitering around the area. If we see barbs we can finish that warrior before the settler is done.

 

[BLubmuz]

I can't find Folket's PPP. Please post the latest version.

13 turns yes, he already played 2 out of the 15.

Barbs start enter borders once the majority of Civs has 3 cities, it's not depending by turns. Let's assume they can enter once we're to 3 cities, just to be safe.

About the warrior moves, i think that a safe path in certain direction is all we need to see on the PPP. Then, much will depend from safe tiles, possibly interesting areas to reveal and so on. Remember than if you go in straight line, i.e. N-S, move SE-SW-SE-SW, so u can reveal more tiles.

I agree to convert if asked, even if it's not much probable Hindu will auto-spread.

 

[unclethrill]

I can't find Folket's PPP. Please post the latest version.

13 turns yes, he already played 2 out of the 15.

Barbs start enter borders once the majority of Civs has 3 cities, it's not depending by turns. Let's assume they can enter once we're to 3 cities, just to be safe.

About the warrior moves, i think that a safe path in certain direction is all we need to see on the PPP. Then, much will depend from safe tiles, possibly interesting areas to reveal and so on. Remember than if you go in straight line, i.e. N-S, move SE-SW-SE-SW, so u can reveal more tiles.

I agree to convert if asked, even if it's not much probable Hindu will auto-spread.

Here it is PPP of Folket

 

[BSPollux]

im against conversion, cause of the risky oracle-situation

 

[unclethrill]

im against conversion, cause of the risky oracle-situation

I agree. We can't afford to lose a turn before the Oracle.