SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Ok. So tech path is Corp->Repl Parts->Steam Power->Railroad->Assembly line. The Sci Method trade is postponed until after Assembly line.
We need to start Wall street in Bibracte as soon as we get corps. For that we need to make sure to get 6 banks. Tours can now whip its bank without a problem. Rheims and Tolosa could whip their bank too. (I wouldn't whip in Lyons because of happiness problems.) I suggest that you set a reminder (alt+m) to the turn before getting Corporation so you don't forget to whip the 3 banks.
We need a more serious war effort, 3 cannons running around is not that frightening. I tried to assign 2 more cities to cannons, se below.
I hope that 1360 AD is the latest save. I know you didn't check the cities yet, but here is what I would do. I just realized you played one turn since that.
Here it is anyway, I hope that some of it is still useful.
(These are in the city cycling order, so should be easy to go through them. I advise using a second display device or write these on a piece of paper)
Paris: you didn't steal that town from Tours. We are wasting ~20 bpt this way. Working a plains farm is a bad idea before biology, so please put that citizen on a town stolen from Tours. (This might have costed us a turn on Constitution, but it doesn't matter since it is only a prereq.)
Orleans: build a cannon or two. Then build a salon. Gives 15 beakers, an artist and bonus culture. It is a must in a legendary city.
Lyons: Build a cannon. After that I think that a salon is worth building here for 18 beakers per turn.
Rheims:switch to bank this turn, whip it one turn before corp is ready. Whip the bank. Overflow into cannon.
Tours:whip the bank one turn before corp is ready. Whip the bank. Overflow into Musket or worker.
Rouen: after the Courthouse is ready, build a lighthouse
Verlamion: finish the buildings. We are not in financial trouble now. Forge is important to produce more wealth later. And switch the citizen from the unimproved grass tile to a workshop.
Bibracte:Library. We can finish it one turn before corp is ready. Then Wall street, and then a salon. Start library, switch to Wall street next turn.
Tolosa: Switch to bank, whip it one turn before corp is ready. Whip the bank.
Isca: now that I think about it forge is better as next build, courthouse can wait after that.
Camulo: steal the farm from Vienne that is next to the corn. Start a library, and later maybe a salon too.
Bagacum: spy is better than a citizen doing nothing.
Vienne: finish the forge!!! then build a granary.
Durocortorum: Bring a worker here and chop a cannon or a pike. You can also do a mild whip.
New Rammy cities: they need workers for chopping/lumbermilling(when Rep parts is ready.) We could bring one from the island with the galley, and one or two guys could go here from the Bagacum farm chain. Bring one or two workers south from around Uzbek, they caught up pretty well to the growth of the cities in that area. A couple more workers wouldn't hurt too if you find a place to build them. (Maybe Lyons could do one before the cannon)
We need to start Wall street in Bibracte as soon as we get corps. For that we need to make sure to get 6 banks. Tours can now whip its bank without a problem. Rheims and Tolosa could whip their bank too. (I wouldn't whip in Lyons because of happiness problems.) I suggest that you set a reminder (alt+m) to the turn before getting Corporation so you don't forget to whip the 3 banks.
We need a more serious war effort, 3 cannons running around is not that frightening. I tried to assign 2 more cities to cannons, se below.
Here it is anyway, I hope that some of it is still useful.
(These are in the city cycling order, so should be easy to go through them. I advise using a second display device or write these on a piece of paper)
Paris: you didn't steal that town from Tours. We are wasting ~20 bpt this way. Working a plains farm is a bad idea before biology, so please put that citizen on a town stolen from Tours. (This might have costed us a turn on Constitution, but it doesn't matter since it is only a prereq.)
Orleans: build a cannon or two. Then build a salon. Gives 15 beakers, an artist and bonus culture. It is a must in a legendary city.
Lyons: Build a cannon. After that I think that a salon is worth building here for 18 beakers per turn.
Rheims:
Tours:
Rouen: after the Courthouse is ready, build a lighthouse
Verlamion: finish the buildings. We are not in financial trouble now. Forge is important to produce more wealth later. And switch the citizen from the unimproved grass tile to a workshop.
Bibracte:
Tolosa:
Isca: now that I think about it forge is better as next build, courthouse can wait after that.
Camulo: steal the farm from Vienne that is next to the corn. Start a library, and later maybe a salon too.
Bagacum: spy is better than a citizen doing nothing.
Vienne: finish the forge!!! then build a granary.
Durocortorum: Bring a worker here and chop a cannon or a pike. You can also do a mild whip.
New Rammy cities: they need workers for chopping/lumbermilling(when Rep parts is ready.) We could bring one from the island with the galley, and one or two guys could go here from the Bagacum farm chain. Bring one or two workers south from around Uzbek, they caught up pretty well to the growth of the cities in that area. A couple more workers wouldn't hurt too if you find a place to build them. (Maybe Lyons could do one before the cannon)
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
@ Team - Everyone enjoy Christmas!
@ Shaan
- I know you're gone, but I'm not sure we get to the end of the GAge with enough gold if we change all the cities from wealth. (I'll figure it out)
- There are 4 cannons already w/ two more coming out, but I get it... more cannons.
- Con is one turn tech, so I can whip the banks now. (done)
Anyone else? If not, I'll play in a few hours when I get home.
EDIT: Yes, I'm going to use that galley as a ferry for cannons, so getting workers over that way is easy enough. Much shorter trip than going around!
@ Shaan
- I know you're gone, but I'm not sure we get to the end of the GAge with enough gold if we change all the cities from wealth. (I'll figure it out)
- There are 4 cannons already w/ two more coming out, but I get it... more cannons.
- Con is one turn tech, so I can whip the banks now. (done)
Anyone else? If not, I'll play in a few hours when I get home.
EDIT: Yes, I'm going to use that galley as a ferry for cannons, so getting workers over that way is easy enough. Much shorter trip than going around!
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Not a whole lot on 198 we didn't expect:
- Got Corp and start RP
- Finish banks and start WS in Bibract
- Popped a GS in Thebes (Wish we'd been just a little luckier and gotten the GM.)
I have to go get my son, when I get back in 2 hours I can finish out the GAge unless the team wants me to stop or keep going, one or the other.
We are almost out of gold for 100% research. I can probably trade some old techs for enough to get us through the last 3 GAge turns, and we're still running some wealth, but probably back to 0% for a few turns.
EDIT: I'll also stop right before the end of the GAge in case someone wants a civics change, but I think we're at what we want, right? Rep/Beuro/Slave/Merc/OR
- Got Corp and start RP
- Finish banks and start WS in Bibract
- Popped a GS in Thebes (Wish we'd been just a little luckier and gotten the GM.)
I have to go get my son, when I get back in 2 hours I can finish out the GAge unless the team wants me to stop or keep going, one or the other.
We are almost out of gold for 100% research. I can probably trade some old techs for enough to get us through the last 3 GAge turns, and we're still running some wealth, but probably back to 0% for a few turns.
EDIT: I'll also stop right before the end of the GAge in case someone wants a civics change, but I think we're at what we want, right? Rep/Beuro/Slave/Merc/OR
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Yeah, stopping one turn before golden age ends is a good choice. We might want to consider switching to Free Speech. I will do some calculations. It might set us back a bit, but will give more beakers in ~10 turns, and this way we can get it without anarchy.
Don't worry about getting through the golden age with 100% slider. It just gives us more commerce, not science multipliers. Or to put it another way we get more gold from running 0% science during GA, and we can use that for staying longer at 100% science later. (The amount of commerce that runs through science multipliers is the same in the end.)
I hope that you took my advice on city micro. Wealth is a nice build, but basic infra is more important. Building wealth was for tech racing to get a good lib tech and for getting through the economic troubles. We are in a good shape now and we need infra to have a good late game. So except in a few cities where we have everything (eg the one on the north, I don't know its name) bulding infra should be the priority now instead of wealth. Forge, granary, library, courthouse everywhere, and salons in commerce cities. Lighthouse in coastal cities with seafood. Cannons and workers everywhere else (except Bibracte and Thebes of course)
Don't worry about getting through the golden age with 100% slider. It just gives us more commerce, not science multipliers. Or to put it another way we get more gold from running 0% science during GA, and we can use that for staying longer at 100% science later. (The amount of commerce that runs through science multipliers is the same in the end.)
I hope that you took my advice on city micro. Wealth is a nice build, but basic infra is more important. Building wealth was for tech racing to get a good lib tech and for getting through the economic troubles. We are in a good shape now and we need infra to have a good late game. So except in a few cities where we have everything (eg the one on the north, I don't know its name) bulding infra should be the priority now instead of wealth. Forge, granary, library, courthouse everywhere, and salons in commerce cities. Lighthouse in coastal cities with seafood. Cannons and workers everywhere else (except Bibracte and Thebes of course)
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
@Shann - Yes, I took your advice for the most part. I'd still like to hand it off with RP finished, so you can build lumbermills if you want. I left a couple cities on wealth for one more turn to make it happen, but infra is being finished!
When are you ready to start? I can finish up anytime now. I have to remember how to upload a save to the board... it really has been that long.
When are you ready to start? I can finish up anytime now. I have to remember how to upload a save to the board... it really has been that long.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Okay, I'm at turn 200, aside from Hammu getting a GA on 199, not much else.
-200
Ram cancels the peace agreement + 4gpt
Get RP and start SP
Set research to 0%
Notes to Shann:
The workers NW of Verlamion are chaining to the city
We have a caravel with an explorer aboard headed due west above China
Our "ferry" galley is in place, has set a couple units in Elephant, and "Cannon Road" from Apache is built
Don't forget monasteries in Gergovia!
A Hindi missionary is in Thebes, and another headed for Memphis
A trireme is head down the east coast to protect the nets
And, just by looking Chartres might make an excellent spot for a drydock to build a navy.
Going to upload!
-200
Ram cancels the peace agreement + 4gpt
Get RP and start SP
Set research to 0%
Notes to Shann:
The workers NW of Verlamion are chaining to the city
We have a caravel with an explorer aboard headed due west above China
Our "ferry" galley is in place, has set a couple units in Elephant, and "Cannon Road" from Apache is built
Don't forget monasteries in Gergovia!
A Hindi missionary is in Thebes, and another headed for Memphis
A trireme is head down the east coast to protect the nets
And, just by looking Chartres might make an excellent spot for a drydock to build a navy.
Going to upload!
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Turnlog - Part 1:
Spoiler :
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Turnlog - Part 2: (Critical pointers are welcome!)
Spoiler :
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Just a quick Merry Xmas to all.
Look at the save tomorrow.
Look at the save tomorrow.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Well played, Mastiff! 
Also in a time when all of us was/is kind of busy, so this was essential in moving on with the game. I'm happy to take over the save now, and I can come up with a PPP until tonight. (Maybe even sooner, we will see)
Overall plan is getting Railroad and AL as soon as possible without sacrificing growth. In the meantime we need to conquer Ram, so a war plan will also be needed from me. Hopefully I can hand over the save to the next player with a dead or almost dead Ramesses.
The conquer money will fuel our research beautifully!
Also in a time when all of us was/is kind of busy, so this was essential in moving on with the game. I'm happy to take over the save now, and I can come up with a PPP until tonight. (Maybe even sooner, we will see)
Overall plan is getting Railroad and AL as soon as possible without sacrificing growth. In the meantime we need to conquer Ram, so a war plan will also be needed from me. Hopefully I can hand over the save to the next player with a dead or almost dead Ramesses.
The conquer money will fuel our research beautifully!
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Well played, Mastiff!
Also in a time when all of us was/is kind of busy, so this was essential in moving on with the game. I'm happy to take over the save now, and I can come up with a PPP until tonight. (Maybe even sooner, we will see)
Overall plan is getting Railroad and AL as soon as possible without sacrificing growth. In the meantime we need to conquer Ram, so a war plan will also be needed from me. Hopefully I can hand over the save to the next player with a dead or almost dead Ramesses.
The conquer money will fuel our research beautifully!
Sounds good to me
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
You went a bit hard on salons (9 have been started). I think that eg. Chartres and Rheims, (and some others) could have lived without those. But no problem, even like this they might be worth it in the long run.
I will change the production to military where the salon is not essential. (Tolosa and Vienne)
I will change the production to military where the salon is not essential. (Tolosa and Vienne)
Good job, Mastiff.
Shaan: don't build too much military. We almost have enough already built or in production, to take out Ramesses. (Of course Apache and Uzbek will continue, but the other cities don't need to.) Better to focus on settlers, workers, work boats and galleons.
Shaan: don't build too much military. We almost have enough already built or in production, to take out Ramesses. (Of course Apache and Uzbek will continue, but the other cities don't need to.) Better to focus on settlers, workers, work boats and galleons.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
PPP:
Civics:
I did some calculations, and Free Speech should wait for next golden age. It gives us only 34 commerce now compared to Bureau's 38. The next GA will come in 9 turns (Thebes will give us the second Great Person that will hopefully be something other than a scientist, so we can fire a golden age in 9 turns). By then we will have enough towns to make FS a better choice. Calculate the exact turn when switching will give us more beakers. (should be in next miniset)
Cities
I won't go into too much details on city and worker micro, but the basic idea is:
Get our land improved. Start 2 workers in cities that can postpone their salons.
If any other city already has basic infra and is not building a unit, then set it to buildcannons (or settlers) the 4 settlers (see below) + 1 for the copper, the lbs and galleons +workboats. If there is still some city to give orders to then it builds wealth.
Build 1 spy in Duro so we can see what we are up against. Maybe we can strike very soon (as soon as our current cannons get to the other side) if we don't have a great opposition.
Our HE city and some others keep building their current units, maybe do one more of the same unit if Ram has amassed great forces (unlikely).
Accelerate wall street in Bibracte using some whip overflow.
Let me kow if you would like a city-by-city plan.
Tile improvements:
Build mills, especially in food poor cities (water, wind and lumber). Farms, workshops and lumbermills. Change some mines to windmills in Paris. (And maybe in some other food poor cities that are good at commerce)
War prep
I would like a road finished to the new Ram cities so we can send some pikes there. I think that we have enough guys on the south to get Byblos. (2 cannon 2 pike and 2 musket should be enough) Everybody else (with the exception of 1 or 2 pikes for defense) will be sent to Thebes so we can get Heliopolis ASAP. After that we do a clever stack splitting and conquer the rest of the mainland. We will need the galleon in the end to finish him off at that island city.
Sushi resource settling:
We need to put our hands on the double sushi sites. I see that one tile islands are being settled by the AIs, so these are important. We have 4 of these:
N of Chartres
NE of Marseilles
SE of Calleva
3tile entry island to Humbaba (the city with the fish and crab)
I suggest producing 4 settlers for these. I would also start galleons in Chartres and Rheims to help settler transportation. We will need some military police in the new cities, I think lbs are appropriate for the task.
------------
I will stop and report as soon as I have a question, or I'm ready to declare, or 5 turns have passed.
Civics:
I did some calculations, and Free Speech should wait for next golden age. It gives us only 34 commerce now compared to Bureau's 38. The next GA will come in 9 turns (Thebes will give us the second Great Person that will hopefully be something other than a scientist, so we can fire a golden age in 9 turns). By then we will have enough towns to make FS a better choice. Calculate the exact turn when switching will give us more beakers. (should be in next miniset)
Cities
I won't go into too much details on city and worker micro, but the basic idea is:
Get our land improved. Start 2 workers in cities that can postpone their salons.
If any other city already has basic infra and is not building a unit, then set it to build
Build 1 spy in Duro so we can see what we are up against. Maybe we can strike very soon (as soon as our current cannons get to the other side) if we don't have a great opposition.
Our HE city and some others keep building their current units, maybe do one more of the same unit if Ram has amassed great forces (unlikely).
Accelerate wall street in Bibracte using some whip overflow.
Let me kow if you would like a city-by-city plan.
Tile improvements:
War prep
I would like a road finished to the new Ram cities so we can send some pikes there. I think that we have enough guys on the south to get Byblos. (2 cannon 2 pike and 2 musket should be enough) Everybody else (with the exception of 1 or 2 pikes for defense) will be sent to Thebes so we can get Heliopolis ASAP. After that we do a clever stack splitting and conquer the rest of the mainland. We will need the galleon in the end to finish him off at that island city.
Sushi resource settling:
We need to put our hands on the double sushi sites. I see that one tile islands are being settled by the AIs, so these are important. We have 4 of these:
N of Chartres
NE of Marseilles
SE of Calleva
3tile entry island to Humbaba (the city with the fish and crab)
I suggest producing 4 settlers for these. I would also start galleons in Chartres and Rheims to help settler transportation. We will need some military police in the new cities, I think lbs are appropriate for the task.
------------
I will stop and report as soon as I have a question, or I'm ready to declare, or 5 turns have passed.
General PPP comments:
Looks pretty good.
I'd wait until Heliopolis comes out of revolt, to switch to Free Speech.
Since we don't have Electricity and are going to get Railroad soon, windmills should only be built in the direst food situations. Certainly not in Paris where there are likely resources on two of the hills.
Similarly, usually you want farms+workshops rather than watermills without Electricity, to grow faster on the farms, and then get the caste system bonus on workshops once grown.
Those are the four best sites for sushi. If you can, settle the copper near Calleva too.
edit: Build the work boats in mature cities.
Bibracte/Wall Street: with some creative whipping post-GA, you should be able to shave some turns off Wall Street. Library, Walls from scratch, Theatre from scratch are just three that give some overflow. Plan this city in advance.
Looks pretty good.
I'd wait until Heliopolis comes out of revolt, to switch to Free Speech.
Since we don't have Electricity and are going to get Railroad soon, windmills should only be built in the direst food situations. Certainly not in Paris where there are likely resources on two of the hills.
Similarly, usually you want farms+workshops rather than watermills without Electricity, to grow faster on the farms, and then get the caste system bonus on workshops once grown.
Those are the four best sites for sushi. If you can, settle the copper near Calleva too.
edit: Build the work boats in mature cities.
Bibracte/Wall Street: with some creative whipping post-GA, you should be able to shave some turns off Wall Street. Library, Walls from scratch, Theatre from scratch are just three that give some overflow. Plan this city in advance.
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