SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
No - if it were connected to our main landmass, or our landmass went closer to it, then the border pop would do it.
It isn't, and it won't. You never get borders extending that far out to sea, even with legendary culture.
(The rule is at most distance 2.5 from the landmass the city is on; diagonals count as 1.5 so the copper is distance 3 from the mainland.)
It isn't, and it won't. You never get borders extending that far out to sea, even with legendary culture.
(The rule is at most distance 2.5 from the landmass the city is on; diagonals count as 1.5 so the copper is distance 3 from the mainland.)
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Looks good to me! Anyone look at the graph?
Shaandore
another mathematician
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The score graph is looking nice, but don't forget that two strong teams haven't got to 1400 AD yet. (Kakumeika and Shawshank) I wonder if they will be able to finish in time. Xteam is also at 1000AD with their latest save.
The culture graph is a bit worrying.
Power might reflect that the others have better military techs or have already invaded the continent. I would really like to see a "number of techs researched" graph
PD is incredible as usual...
The culture graph is a bit worrying.
Power might reflect that the others have better military techs or have already invaded the continent. I would really like to see a "number of techs researched" graph
PD is incredible as usual...
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Shaandore
another mathematician
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@ Mastiff
What was your plan with that explorer? I think that I will just throw it on Babylon to look around 'cause they are a likely next target for Sistine and 6 Mining resources. Let's hope they get Versailles too
@All
We should get our Synagoges and Mandirs in Orleans and Gergovia. It would be hard to get them to legendary without those. Also Hermitage in Orelans. (I will start it now since it gives the most culture by far.)
We will need 5 Jewish and 3 Hindu temples for that. I would start these in some Production heavy cities once we have room for them. (Probably only in the next miniset)
I will try to raise base culture in these two cities by building theaters, monasteries and Salons. (Salon in Gergovia only after we get our merchant to avoid GP pool pollution)
What was your plan with that explorer? I think that I will just throw it on Babylon to look around 'cause they are a likely next target for Sistine and 6 Mining resources. Let's hope they get Versailles too
@All
We should get our Synagoges and Mandirs in Orleans and Gergovia. It would be hard to get them to legendary without those. Also Hermitage in Orelans. (I will start it now since it gives the most culture by far.)
We will need 5 Jewish and 3 Hindu temples for that. I would start these in some Production heavy cities once we have room for them. (Probably only in the next miniset)
I will try to raise base culture in these two cities by building theaters, monasteries and Salons. (Salon in Gergovia only after we get our merchant to avoid GP pool pollution)
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
@Shann - Drop him off, I was just using the caravel to explore the ocean that's still black. Never know what can be found. He was just along for the ride in case I found something big, however unlikely.
Agreed on the religious buildings. Hindi Mon is built in Orleans. In fact, most of it sounds good (Salons, etc.).
Most of your military is built, by the time you get all of it to the western front, you can use "cannon road" to ferry what you need into Thebes. A dual front will spin Ram's head around.
Agreed on the religious buildings. Hindi Mon is built in Orleans. In fact, most of it sounds good (Salons, etc.).
Most of your military is built, by the time you get all of it to the western front, you can use "cannon road" to ferry what you need into Thebes. A dual front will spin Ram's head around.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Sounds good. Play at any time
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Just a couple notes: i still recommend to invest 100 gold in the galley upgrade.
Then i opened the save but i have not seen many units, not enough for a quick war at least. I did not used F9 to verify, so i can be wrong.
Then, i doubt that we can keep slavery after the GAge. If we need GAs we must run Caste in the final part of the game. So, i think we need to time well the GAge with the need for civics change. FP is mandatory for culture, so if we gain something from our towns, the better.
Then i opened the save but i have not seen many units, not enough for a quick war at least. I did not used F9 to verify, so i can be wrong.
Then, i doubt that we can keep slavery after the GAge. If we need GAs we must run Caste in the final part of the game. So, i think we need to time well the GAge with the need for civics change. FP is mandatory for culture, so if we gain something from our towns, the better.
Shaandore
another mathematician
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The Galley Upgrade might be worth it if I need to board 3 units while moving the cannons to the other side. Otherwise it is much cheaper to build a new one (only 80 hammers).
Don't worry, I won't declare yet, I'm just moving our troops in position. The spy from Duro will check out Heliopolis to see how much force we need. We do have a lot of experienced muskets, and enough cannons to bomb and conquer a city in 2 turns where there are ~10 units and 60-80% defense. Throw in a couple pikes for stack defense and we are good to go. We just need to get them in position.
We will hopefully get our Golden Age in 9 turns from now. Staying in caste is good during GAs, but otherwise slavery is better so we can set up the sushi cities. (Granaries, Forges, Courthouses everywhere) Moreover, we should switch to Pacifism in next golden age! We need to get 3 GP for our next golden age, plus a GM for sushi...
FS-certainly. We will do it during next Golden Age.
Shaandore
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- One Hindu missionary failed in Thebes, had to use the other one. Whipped a new Missionary in Avignon, used it on Elephantine.
- Didn't finish road to new Ram cities cause Pi Ramesses' borders expanded.
Whipped library in elephantine, OF finished Granary.
Settlers are on their way or getting ready. We nned to hurry, Saladin settled one city (Quite stupidly without any visible resource though)
We are more than ready to declare, Ram has negligible amount of forces.
2 turns to Steam Power, 3 turns to IW. Wall street is painfully slow. I did a theater whip, but further whipping will stop city growth or we have to work food tiles instead of hammers. (= not good)
Good news is we get next GP from Thebes in 3 turns. We have 79% chance of rolling something other than a great scientist.
Save in a minute. Done.
New PPP tonight.
- Didn't finish road to new Ram cities cause Pi Ramesses' borders expanded.
Whipped library in elephantine, OF finished Granary.
Settlers are on their way or getting ready. We nned to hurry, Saladin settled one city (Quite stupidly without any visible resource though)
We are more than ready to declare, Ram has negligible amount of forces.
2 turns to Steam Power, 3 turns to IW. Wall street is painfully slow. I did a theater whip, but further whipping will stop city growth or we have to work food tiles instead of hammers. (= not good)
Good news is we get next GP from Thebes in 3 turns. We have 79% chance of rolling something other than a great scientist.
New PPP tonight.
Good job so far. Green light to declare.
Saladin's city most likely has oil.
Paris can now work a town instead of the hill, and still finish the Salon.
Bibracte can whip a Levee and use that to speed up Wall St.
Shaandore
another mathematician
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Yep, I just realized after posting that it has to be oil.
Good catch at Paris. I also had to hire an engineer to gain a turn there. The engineer will have to stay for one more turn (the town gives more beakers than a scientist).
Bib will definitely whip a levee (probably a 3pop whip with good overflow). I will also start some other levees, see PPP in next post.
Shaandore
another mathematician
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PPP (some questions underlined)
War effort:
Declare this turn. The CR2 musket and the great scientist stay in Thebes.
2/3 of stack move on hill 1NW of Heliopolis (Pike, 5 Musket, 3 cannon, Medic)
the rest moves on the forest 1NE of Heliopolis (2 cannon, 2 muskets including the one with Formation promotion)
Attack and capture Heliopolis. Move in with medic and 2 non-injured muskets, take a turn to heal if needed. In the meantime the east stack captures Byblos. One cannon bombard, two cannons attack. Guys take the city. Relatively healthy units start moving towards Pi-Ramesses to meet up with the eastern Heliopolis stack there. The Western Helioplois stack with the medic continues to Alexandria. The two cannons in Elephantine should be able to go to the stack that needs them most around this time. Eastern stack obviously gets a Medic unit. (Musketeer 29 (Tours) looks like a good candidate)
City settling:
One galleon is on route to the Copper Island, picks up its settler next turn. An other one is headed to the neighbourhood of Saladin's new city. A third one picks up its settler next turn and goes to the spot N of Chartres. The next two settlers will go to SE of Copper city and Humbaba sushi spot. I propose settling 2 more filler cities, marked as "Filler" on the map. I would like to start these settlers once I get the opportunity. Do you agree? One is N of Paris, the other is at the oasis between Apache and Orleans. They will be productive when they get the corporations.
Cities:
Start levees in Paris, Lyons, Orleans, Apache, Uzbek, Gergovia, Bibracte as soon as we get Steam Power, and in Thebes once IW is done.
Train some more Hindu Missionaries for Memphis and the new cities.
Postpone the Mandirs until we get Marble, build the Synagoges first, but only after the levees are ready. Build the needed jewish temples for that. (In the meantime build a Theater in Gergovia)
4-pop whip levee in Bibracte with best overflow.
New cities won't get out of revolt until the end of miniset, but they get usual basic infra first.
Spread Hinduism into these as soon as possible to use Org Rel's potential (?) - if we switch to pacifism it's not really needed.
Shall I bother spreading Hindu to sushi cities?
Golden Ages and Great People:
We get a GP in Thebes in 3 turns.
If it is a scientist
- We switch civics without golden age
or
- We starve a GP/GE from Orleans in 3 turns and start a golden age with this guy and a scientist.
If it is not a scientist, we start a golden age and switch to caste, and starve Gergovia with merchants for 6 turns (if my calculations are correct)
or
-we let Thebes get its next GP in 8 turns after golden age starts and manage Gergovia to get the GM 1 or 2 turns after this (turn 9 or 10 of golden age)
or
-we starve a GP from Orleans in 2 turns after GA starts, get the great person from Thebes on turn 10 and get the GM from Gergovia on turn 11 or 12. (this is my preference)
All of the above numbers use only the golden age bonus. They don't need pacifism. If we switch to Pacifism during golden age, we will get even better numbers. (I'm too tired to do the calculations with Pacifism+Golden age. Maybe tomorrow.)
Here is what I would do: start GA with next Thebes GP or with the guy starved from Orleans and the old GScientist. Switch to caste+pacifism, get one more Thebes Great person, and get GM form Gergovia one turn later. Starve Gergovia during the GA a bit more to get closer to next GP from there during the golden age.
There are more possibilities, but we can basically get 4 GP in next 18 turns, where we will run a Golden age for sure, and get a GM for almost sure (blame national epic or a short lived engineer in Gergovia if it fails...) After these turns we will have 2 GP for later golden age uses and hopefully a GM for sushi. (and the GE have already founded Mining Inc.)
Switch to Free Speech and Caste (and Pacifism?) on turn 1 of golden age.
Diplomacy:
If Sitting Bull or Qin accumulates more than 100 gold, sell them old techs (Philosophy, Theology, Banking, Divine Right)
Some more random thoughts&a question:
I will send the Lyons GEngineer to Bibracte to be able to found mining inc as soon as it is available.
How do I make sure that this GE does not get used if I have to fire a golden age with a GP from Orleans and a GS from Bibracte?
Stop and report 5 turns from now, or when we are ready to move out from Heliopolis, or if I have a question.
War effort:
Declare this turn. The CR2 musket and the great scientist stay in Thebes.
2/3 of stack move on hill 1NW of Heliopolis (Pike, 5 Musket, 3 cannon, Medic)
the rest moves on the forest 1NE of Heliopolis (2 cannon, 2 muskets including the one with Formation promotion)
Attack and capture Heliopolis. Move in with medic and 2 non-injured muskets, take a turn to heal if needed. In the meantime the east stack captures Byblos. One cannon bombard, two cannons attack. Guys take the city. Relatively healthy units start moving towards Pi-Ramesses to meet up with the eastern Heliopolis stack there. The Western Helioplois stack with the medic continues to Alexandria. The two cannons in Elephantine should be able to go to the stack that needs them most around this time. Eastern stack obviously gets a Medic unit. (Musketeer 29 (Tours) looks like a good candidate)
City settling:
One galleon is on route to the Copper Island, picks up its settler next turn. An other one is headed to the neighbourhood of Saladin's new city. A third one picks up its settler next turn and goes to the spot N of Chartres. The next two settlers will go to SE of Copper city and Humbaba sushi spot. I propose settling 2 more filler cities, marked as "Filler" on the map. I would like to start these settlers once I get the opportunity. Do you agree? One is N of Paris, the other is at the oasis between Apache and Orleans. They will be productive when they get the corporations.
Cities:
Start levees in Paris, Lyons, Orleans, Apache, Uzbek, Gergovia, Bibracte as soon as we get Steam Power, and in Thebes once IW is done.
Train some more Hindu Missionaries for Memphis and the new cities.
Postpone the Mandirs until we get Marble, build the Synagoges first, but only after the levees are ready. Build the needed jewish temples for that. (In the meantime build a Theater in Gergovia)
4-pop whip levee in Bibracte with best overflow.
New cities won't get out of revolt until the end of miniset, but they get usual basic infra first.
Spread Hinduism into these as soon as possible to use Org Rel's potential (?) - if we switch to pacifism it's not really needed.
Shall I bother spreading Hindu to sushi cities?
Golden Ages and Great People:
We get a GP in Thebes in 3 turns.
If it is a scientist
- We switch civics without golden age
or
- We starve a GP/GE from Orleans in 3 turns and start a golden age with this guy and a scientist.
If it is not a scientist, we start a golden age and switch to caste, and starve Gergovia with merchants for 6 turns (if my calculations are correct)
or
-we let Thebes get its next GP in 8 turns after golden age starts and manage Gergovia to get the GM 1 or 2 turns after this (turn 9 or 10 of golden age)
or
-we starve a GP from Orleans in 2 turns after GA starts, get the great person from Thebes on turn 10 and get the GM from Gergovia on turn 11 or 12. (this is my preference)
All of the above numbers use only the golden age bonus. They don't need pacifism. If we switch to Pacifism during golden age, we will get even better numbers. (I'm too tired to do the calculations with Pacifism+Golden age. Maybe tomorrow.)
Here is what I would do: start GA with next Thebes GP or with the guy starved from Orleans and the old GScientist. Switch to caste+pacifism, get one more Thebes Great person, and get GM form Gergovia one turn later. Starve Gergovia during the GA a bit more to get closer to next GP from there during the golden age.
There are more possibilities, but we can basically get 4 GP in next 18 turns, where we will run a Golden age for sure, and get a GM for almost sure (blame national epic or a short lived engineer in Gergovia if it fails...) After these turns we will have 2 GP for later golden age uses and hopefully a GM for sushi. (and the GE have already founded Mining Inc.)
Switch to Free Speech and Caste (and Pacifism?) on turn 1 of golden age.
Diplomacy:
If Sitting Bull or Qin accumulates more than 100 gold, sell them old techs (Philosophy, Theology, Banking, Divine Right)
Some more random thoughts&a question:
I will send the Lyons GEngineer to Bibracte to be able to found mining inc as soon as it is available.
How do I make sure that this GE does not get used if I have to fire a golden age with a GP from Orleans and a GS from Bibracte?
Stop and report 5 turns from now, or when we are ready to move out from Heliopolis, or if I have a question.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I suppose the Humbaba city will be positioned to have both the seafood in BFC. I'm not sure, but i think we need a fort to have it connected. But np, we need a fort anyway to move ships in the ice-surrounded sea. The best defence against possible invasions is a frigate. No need to position defensive units, except a LB for the city.
Easy: you stack the GPeople needed for the GAge like you usually do for other units. Then you order to one in the stack to launch. No other way to be sure you use the GPersons you want. So, if one of those is in Bib and the other one pops in Orleans, you must move the one in Bib towards Orl.Shall I bother spreading Hindu to sushi cities?
I think you have to botherany hindu city means 3 gpt, added to the religion bonus for the city.
Golden Ages and Great People:
We get a GP in Thebes in 3 turns.
If it is a scientist
- We switch civics without golden age
or
- We starve a GP/GE from Orleans in 3 turns and start a golden age with this guy and a scientist.
I prefer the latter. No more anarchy. Do not burn a GE on a GAge. There're several uses we can make of a GE.
If it is not a scientist, we start a golden age and switch to caste, and starve Gergovia with merchants for 6 turns (if my calculations are correct)
or
-we let Thebes get its next GP in 8 turns after golden age starts and manage Gergovia to get the GM 1 or 2 turns after this (turn 9 or 10 of golden age)
or
-we starve a GP from Orleans in 2 turns after GA starts, get the great person from Thebes on turn 10 and get the GM from Gergovia on turn 11 or 12. (this is my preference)
All of the above numbers use only the golden age bonus. They don't need pacifism. If we switch to Pacifism during golden age, we will get even better numbers. (I'm too tired to do the calculations with Pacifism+Golden age. Maybe tomorrow.)
Here is what I would do: start GA with next Thebes GP or with the guy starved from Orleans and the old GScientist. Switch to caste+pacifism, get one more Thebes Great person, and get GM form Gergovia one turn later. Starve Gergovia during the GA a bit more to get closer to next GP from there during the golden age.
There are more possibilities, but we can basically get 4 GP in next 18 turns, where we will run a Golden age for sure, and get a GM for almost sure (blame national epic or a short lived engineer in Gergovia if it fails...) After these turns we will have 2 GP for later golden age uses and hopefully a GM for sushi. (and the GE have already founded Mining Inc.)
Switch to Free Speech and Caste (and Pacifism?) on turn 1 of golden age.
Diplomacy:
If Sitting Bull or Qin accumulates more than 100 gold, sell them old techs (Philosophy, Theology, Banking, Divine Right)
more than 100? end season sales? at least more than 200.
Some more random thoughts&a question:
I will send the Lyons GEngineer to Bibracte to be able to found mining inc as soon as it is available.
That was planned since turn 1 or so
How do I make sure that this GE does not get used if I have to fire a golden age with a GP from Orleans and a GS from Bibracte?
I would prefer even more cities on lonely islands to gather resources. But they can be delayed some.
It would also be nice to know how many tiles we can get without triggering the domination victory. We definitely do not want to win by misstake.
I think I would prefer pacifism during the golden age.
I agree with Blubmuz comments except that I'm willing to sell defunct techs cheaply.
Do not have any other GPs in the stack. I once tried to select the two units I wanted for a golden age and a third GP in the same square disappeared. =(
It would also be nice to know how many tiles we can get without triggering the domination victory. We definitely do not want to win by misstake.
I think I would prefer pacifism during the golden age.
I agree with Blubmuz comments except that I'm willing to sell defunct techs cheaply.
Do not have any other GPs in the stack. I once tried to select the two units I wanted for a golden age and a third GP in the same square disappeared. =(
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