It's quite hard to do that without a save or a HD screenshot. I can distiniquish some tiles (for example 2W1S is a flood plain, 2N is a hill) but not all.
SGOTM 16 - Maple Sporks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
It's quite hard to do that without a save or a HD screenshot. I can distiniquish some tiles (for example 2W1S is a flood plain, 2N is a hill) but not all.
I actually like moving the settler 1NE and looking what shows up there. With the amount of forest surrounding the settler settling in place may yield few resources. Settling in range of both fish and corn may also give us a lot of growth early on.
Maybe someone can give a preliminary foggazing attempt to aid the discussion?
Maybe someone can give a preliminary foggazing attempt to aid the discussion?
the warrior first on the hill.
That's what i would do.
after that...
it depend of what warrior saw
Looks accurate AFAICT, though I'm pretty sure the river continues between the PF? and PH? in the north.
I'm inclined to move the settler as well, as SIP doesn't look strong to me. I'd first sent the warrior 1NE, then depending on what is revealed, the settler either 2N or 1NW.
I'm inclined to move the settler as well, as SIP doesn't look strong to me. I'd first sent the warrior 1NE, then depending on what is revealed, the settler either 2N or 1NW.
Makes sense since any river must end in either sea or a lake AFAIK.
I too like the option of sending warrior 1NE a bit more as even if we reveal something shiny in the south it would take us helluva lot of time (3-4 turns) to even get there...
I propose get to oracle asap (just after BW to cut thoses trees) for code of law then try to go for a SSE strategy.
I tried it in my test run (same condition, map different) and it worked perfercty ( > 20 GP received).
This strategy will help us a lot reaching goals : shrine, corporate, culture
However, i read the reports of previous run and consider the fact that map maker are vicious (i had stone in my test run). I could bet that we will never find marble or stone on our continent and that all our oponent will be industrious with sone and marble on their feets...
Therefore, It will really depend of what we will get as recources to establish our strategy
btw, the strangest goal to achive (You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage.) mean to me that iron working will be very important in this game for us: there is jungle very close to us , no copper and iron on our feets.
I tried it in my test run (same condition, map different) and it worked perfercty ( > 20 GP received).
This strategy will help us a lot reaching goals : shrine, corporate, culture
However, i read the reports of previous run and consider the fact that map maker are vicious (i had stone in my test run). I could bet that we will never find marble or stone on our continent and that all our oponent will be industrious with sone and marble on their feets...
Therefore, It will really depend of what we will get as recources to establish our strategy
btw, the strangest goal to achive (You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage.) mean to me that iron working will be very important in this game for us: there is jungle very close to us , no copper and iron on our feets.
DwarfSleepy
The Sleeper
Here's my suggestion for the play order, based on checking-in order and stated preferences. Please say so if you want anything changed in this. You can always ask for a swap with another player, or an outright skip if something has come up later.
The player who is "up" will need to do the turnset planning (ppp) and be active in the discussion. The player after that who is "on deck" will also need to follow the discussion closely, to be prepared to take over.
Turnset lengths
I propose to keep the turnlengths flexible, but a little longer in the beginning than towards the end (20 to 15 to 10ish). Depending on the turnset content we can have certain consultation points during a turnset. We can also play turnsets until a certain milestone (bw, oracle, meeting AI, etc). Let's see as we go along.
Time management
Just to remind everyone: this is going to be a LOOOOONG game, so I will be bugging you to start converging thoughts if I think the discussion is going too far astray. We therefor also might need to aim for slightly longer or more frequent turnsets.
Our first deadline is 21st November, when we need to have submitted a save past the first 100 turns (= ~ 6-7 turnsets = ~ 1 turnset/week)
- DwarfSleepy (up)
- Nocho (on deck)
- Astre
- Sengir
- Pigswill
- Norvin_Green
- Iagoc (away 20-30 sept)
- Ororo (needs HW upgrade)
- Ondskan (not yet checked in)
The player who is "up" will need to do the turnset planning (ppp) and be active in the discussion. The player after that who is "on deck" will also need to follow the discussion closely, to be prepared to take over.
Turnset lengths
I propose to keep the turnlengths flexible, but a little longer in the beginning than towards the end (20 to 15 to 10ish). Depending on the turnset content we can have certain consultation points during a turnset. We can also play turnsets until a certain milestone (bw, oracle, meeting AI, etc). Let's see as we go along.
Time management
Just to remind everyone: this is going to be a LOOOOONG game, so I will be bugging you to start converging thoughts if I think the discussion is going too far astray. We therefor also might need to aim for slightly longer or more frequent turnsets.
Our first deadline is 21st November, when we need to have submitted a save past the first 100 turns (= ~ 6-7 turnsets = ~ 1 turnset/week)
Since this is an extremely complicated map/victory I would just settle right away and then go for a tight city formation, dropping the second city at (possibly near) the forest tile near the fish and using that city to build Moai Statues. The issue with this is obvious, the lack of gold makes a religion rush impractical. But perhaps we could simply rush an enemy and take the holy city? Regardless if we are going for a religion I think moving into the forest tiles is the only viable option to gain what seems to be river and forest-free tiles in the N-west.
I'm not sure but I think it's a plain hill 2 steps south west obviously surrounded by rivers. This would bring us an extra shield per turn which is of huge importance early on and create a tremendous defensive position vs barbarians and others. But it's a waste of 2 turns for something that could be something else!
No real turn preference. I guess I can spare 20 turns in any order.
I'm not sure but I think it's a plain hill 2 steps south west obviously surrounded by rivers. This would bring us an extra shield per turn which is of huge importance early on and create a tremendous defensive position vs barbarians and others. But it's a waste of 2 turns for something that could be something else!
No real turn preference. I guess I can spare 20 turns in any order.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Given that we can deduce tile's terrain from their edges but can't deduce resources (or hidden resources!) I'd SIP. Its very rare that a shot in the dark pays off.
Overall strategy: capture our continent asap, don't rely on AI for anything so use our GPs to achieve objectives (shrines, corporations).
Overall strategy: capture our continent asap, don't rely on AI for anything so use our GPs to achieve objectives (shrines, corporations).
Judging by what I see on the starting screenshot I don't think I like the idea of tight city formatio. That would have been great had we been given a flooplain/plenty of riverside grassland start, where we could just abuse shared cottages, but not in this brown-ish start really. I think our best bet is to rely on food/commerce/production specials, grassland hill mines and later specialists, maybe settling cities a bit more liberally as we have the Creative trait
SiP is OK, but I really don't want to do it prematurely as we might be given a better option if we just scout for 1 or 2 turns. We are looking at a long game so delaying settling our capital by 1 or 2 turns shouldn't matter that much.
On Hemispheres, there is always far more land to be settled than on Pangea so we should be looking at some hardcore REX. ICS fueled by the GLH is definitely viable, especially if we settle our capital between Corn and Fish (5 forests mean total of 150 IND hammers).
IND really screams for wonderspamming and I intend to do that. I would really like to see us try our best at securing the "early game trio of prosperity" - the Oracle, Pyramids and GLH. We can then continue with the Aesthetics line which usually presents no challenge.
I agree that GPs are going to be absolutely essential. We are unfortunately not PHI so I'd recommend getting a very early Great Library paired with National Epic. GE for Mining Inc might be a little challenging as we can't really rely on luck from Pyramids, but Ironworks+Forge can help with that. Together these buildings allow you to run 4 engineer specialists at once - something not to be taken lightly.
SiP is OK, but I really don't want to do it prematurely as we might be given a better option if we just scout for 1 or 2 turns. We are looking at a long game so delaying settling our capital by 1 or 2 turns shouldn't matter that much.
On Hemispheres, there is always far more land to be settled than on Pangea so we should be looking at some hardcore REX. ICS fueled by the GLH is definitely viable, especially if we settle our capital between Corn and Fish (5 forests mean total of 150 IND hammers).
IND really screams for wonderspamming and I intend to do that. I would really like to see us try our best at securing the "early game trio of prosperity" - the Oracle, Pyramids and GLH. We can then continue with the Aesthetics line which usually presents no challenge.
I agree that GPs are going to be absolutely essential. We are unfortunately not PHI so I'd recommend getting a very early Great Library paired with National Epic. GE for Mining Inc might be a little challenging as we can't really rely on luck from Pyramids, but Ironworks+Forge can help with that. Together these buildings allow you to run 4 engineer specialists at once - something not to be taken lightly.
What are grassland mines?
You probably mean grassland hill mines.
Still I think we will be force-labouring alot early on and we don't want to get out of position with castle-maintance eating up all our gold if we spread our cities to thin. Plus that might delay an attack on a holy city.
But yeah talking now is way to early, it all depends on our res around us.
You probably mean grassland hill mines.
Still I think we will be force-labouring alot early on and we don't want to get out of position with castle-maintance eating up all our gold if we spread our cities to thin. Plus that might delay an attack on a holy city.
But yeah talking now is way to early, it all depends on our res around us.
Thoughts on the game objectives (I'm going to number them for easy reference):
1)Humbaba --an advanced era barbarian unit -- must be dead (Thanks Leif). He is a real monster just like in BOTM 41, but now lives in a fairly secluded place.
2)You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities.
3)You are EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident.
4)You have learned Future Tech 1.
5)At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team.
6)You own at least three Holy Shrines
7)You own at least three Corporate Headquarters
8)You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage.
9)You fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination.
10) Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns – or victory or defeat - not later than 2 months after game start. **
1) Shouldn't be too hard to get done before we finish FT1 and 2 victory conditions. It just means we're going to have to scout the whole world to find the guy. I'm pretty sure we're going to need astro to get this one done.
2) We're going to have culture focus, for at least two cities. Which leaves me wandering whether we should aim for a third one as well.
3) We can aim for AP (capture or build), and have UN as a backup plan, or just go straight to UN. Either way is doable, and not very problematic. I wouldn't go for a religious or diplomatic victory: it will require us to juggle with the turns for the other victory which is annoying and can delay victory by as much as 7 turns.
4) FT1 means doing the complete techtree minus some detours. Which means having to research all Space-techs, making Space a feasible option for victory
5) That should be doable. Depending on how the start plays out, we can either rush an opponent, or kill of the AI's living on our continent. In the latter case we have decent chances to get a shrine out of it.
6) Either we need to found a bunch of religions and get the required GP's, or we conquer them, and hope for Shrines in the progress. To keep things realistic, I think we should consider founding and shrining at least one, but possibly 2 religions. This will also make the culture part a bit easier.
7) I'm going to assume we need to do this by ourselves. Not too hard, and we don't have to spread them, so we can consider taking the easy way out and skip Mining Inc if a GEng is too hard to come by. Although a Mining would be very nice for building SS-parts.
8) Not sure which one I'd pick out of these. A lot will depend on the lay of the land, but if it is in any way possible, I'd go for IW or Astro, meaning we can snag the free GS at physics (for Corp use)
9) I think my preferred victories in this case are Space and Culture, with Conquest/Domination as a backup plan. Culture will be the easiest to time, as we can just burn a GA to get over the last treshhold and we need two cities at legendary in any case.
Why Space over Conquest/Dom? Because we need to tech to the end of the tree anyway, and if we keep some AI's alive, we can trade, and get there faster.
10) No comments.
Something I just noticed: It appears vassals are on for this game....
1)Humbaba --an advanced era barbarian unit -- must be dead (Thanks Leif). He is a real monster just like in BOTM 41, but now lives in a fairly secluded place.
2)You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities.
3)You are EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident.
4)You have learned Future Tech 1.
5)At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team.
6)You own at least three Holy Shrines
7)You own at least three Corporate Headquarters
8)You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage.
9)You fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination.
10) Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns – or victory or defeat - not later than 2 months after game start. **
1) Shouldn't be too hard to get done before we finish FT1 and 2 victory conditions. It just means we're going to have to scout the whole world to find the guy. I'm pretty sure we're going to need astro to get this one done.
2) We're going to have culture focus, for at least two cities. Which leaves me wandering whether we should aim for a third one as well.
3) We can aim for AP (capture or build), and have UN as a backup plan, or just go straight to UN. Either way is doable, and not very problematic. I wouldn't go for a religious or diplomatic victory: it will require us to juggle with the turns for the other victory which is annoying and can delay victory by as much as 7 turns.
4) FT1 means doing the complete techtree minus some detours. Which means having to research all Space-techs, making Space a feasible option for victory
5) That should be doable. Depending on how the start plays out, we can either rush an opponent, or kill of the AI's living on our continent. In the latter case we have decent chances to get a shrine out of it.
6) Either we need to found a bunch of religions and get the required GP's, or we conquer them, and hope for Shrines in the progress. To keep things realistic, I think we should consider founding and shrining at least one, but possibly 2 religions. This will also make the culture part a bit easier.
7) I'm going to assume we need to do this by ourselves. Not too hard, and we don't have to spread them, so we can consider taking the easy way out and skip Mining Inc if a GEng is too hard to come by. Although a Mining would be very nice for building SS-parts.
8) Not sure which one I'd pick out of these. A lot will depend on the lay of the land, but if it is in any way possible, I'd go for IW or Astro, meaning we can snag the free GS at physics (for Corp use)
9) I think my preferred victories in this case are Space and Culture, with Conquest/Domination as a backup plan. Culture will be the easiest to time, as we can just burn a GA to get over the last treshhold and we need two cities at legendary in any case.
Why Space over Conquest/Dom? Because we need to tech to the end of the tree anyway, and if we keep some AI's alive, we can trade, and get there faster.
10) No comments.
Something I just noticed: It appears vassals are on for this game....
DwarfSleepy
The Sleeper
I'm not sure about that. In my experience in a culture win the first city will get there almost autonomously, the second aided by hermitage and some artists, but the third by a MASSIVE amount of artists. I think taking the step of the third legendary city might take up too many great people points that might be needed elsewhere... Also, the cultural and research paths usually don't mix, since culture victory means cranking up the culture slider at the expense of the research slider, and we need the research as well in this game...
It would be good if there is some fast-teching, easy-sharing AI in the game like Mansa, who can do a lot of the teching for us...
DwarfSleepy
The Sleeper
I think this is rushing it a bit, with the limited information we have until now. I think we need to test a few thing in a test game. That test game can be made accurately once we have the starting save (and our fog-gazers have done their task). We can agree on the warrior move beforehand, and incorporate that info into the test game as well. The testing will reveal what short term actions are better on the settling front.
I agree that in a long game like this, a one or maybe two turn delay in settling could be worth it, depending on what we find. It should be something visible though IMO. I have found that map makers dislike rewarding teams that make wild guesses, so probably just moving for the sake of it will not pay off.
DwarfSleepy
The Sleeper
Theoretically they are possible if a mine-able resource appears on a grassland tile (copper, iron, uranium, aluminium)
That might be true BUT this is not a standard culture game and we're going all the way up to Future Tech. This means all the late game culture wonders, Eiffel Tower and Sid's Sushi are all available. Plus we'll have plenty of time to spread up to 7 religions to our legendaries and build the respective cathedrals. For this reason I think that Culture just might be one of the easier victory conditions.
And I don't really like Space as one of our victory conditions because of the 10 turns wait once we launch our space ship. Isn't it easier to just build a large enough force of nukes+paratroopers and take whole empires in 2-3 turns? IMO late game really favors military victories because of the sheer power of nukes (you can destroy virtually an infinite number of units with just 3 nukes).
