ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I hope we aren't in slavery for much longer - let's whip that infrastructure now.
SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Returning to GRAND STRATEGY..... please see my last posts on this here and here
I think we have concluded that we want to be in FS quite soon, around 30 turns.
I also think we need the AI to start pulling their weight in terms of research.
So, I would like to:
- finish Gunpowder, then turn tech to 0%
- use our hopeful GS to part bulb SM
- trade Engineering to Qin for Philo (on t171 or t172 when he is Friendly)
- trade Gunpowder to Qin for Guilds (he finishes Guilds on t173, we must trade THIS turn to allow him to do Chemistry next turn, the AI don't start a tech the same turn they finish one)
- trade Gunpowder immediately after to Hammy (for whatever he will give us, Beauro bribe?)
- trade Guilds immediately to Hammy (for whatever he will give us)
The idea here is to give them both the pre-reqs for both Chemistry & Banking, there is no risk to our Lib target
- Research to 100% (we should have a HUGE pile of gold by this stage) do all but 1 turn of Lib,
- finish SM.
- if Qin/Hammy go for Chemistry, then we can skip it
- if neither Qin/Hammy go for Chemistry, we should then do it ourselves (assuming Lib Biology or Medicine)
- if neither Qin/Hammy go for Chemistry, we should go for Physics (assuming Lib Electricity or Radio)
- decide now if we can Lib Radio/Electricty/Medicine, or should we settle for Biology?
Plan is hazy here, as we don;t know what the AI are doing, but as a placeholder:
- trade them anything for Banking, if they go that way
- research Economics
- use Great person due in ~17 turns for a golden age
- Revolt to Caste, Pacifism, FS & FM
I think we have concluded that we want to be in FS quite soon, around 30 turns.
I also think we need the AI to start pulling their weight in terms of research.
So, I would like to:
- finish Gunpowder, then turn tech to 0%
- use our hopeful GS to part bulb SM
- trade Engineering to Qin for Philo (on t171 or t172 when he is Friendly)
- trade Gunpowder to Qin for Guilds (he finishes Guilds on t173, we must trade THIS turn to allow him to do Chemistry next turn, the AI don't start a tech the same turn they finish one)
- trade Gunpowder immediately after to Hammy (for whatever he will give us, Beauro bribe?)
- trade Guilds immediately to Hammy (for whatever he will give us)
The idea here is to give them both the pre-reqs for both Chemistry & Banking, there is no risk to our Lib target
- Research to 100% (we should have a HUGE pile of gold by this stage) do all but 1 turn of Lib,
- finish SM.
- if Qin/Hammy go for Chemistry, then we can skip it
- if neither Qin/Hammy go for Chemistry, we should then do it ourselves (assuming Lib Biology or Medicine)
- if neither Qin/Hammy go for Chemistry, we should go for Physics (assuming Lib Electricity or Radio)
- decide now if we can Lib Radio/Electricty/Medicine, or should we settle for Biology?
Plan is hazy here, as we don;t know what the AI are doing, but as a placeholder:
- trade them anything for Banking, if they go that way
- research Economics
- use Great person due in ~17 turns for a golden age
- Revolt to Caste, Pacifism, FS & FM
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
MP = Military Police. They keep the people down, man.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I want to Lib Medicine, if possible. Revent agreed to that as well.
Me too, didn't realise Revent agreed.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Great point SH
I'd be willing to compromise on researching Bio and then using Lib to get Medicine.That seems a lot better to me, but once again, I don't think we should be researching Chem and it's preqs
five_characters...
OK cool.
The analysis I did in the second link above, replicated here, kind of indicates to me that the AI is not going to prioritise Chemistry, but I will be happy to wrong.
But we can put the decision off until the turn after Qin finishes Guilds and save a bucket of cash for when all the Uni's are finished.
The analysis I did in the second link above, replicated here, kind of indicates to me that the AI is not going to prioritise Chemistry, but I will be happy to wrong.
But we can put the decision off until the turn after Qin finishes Guilds and save a bucket of cash for when all the Uni's are finished.
Nice analysis Neil. That looks like a pretty reasonable plan. I'm tired now, but will post an updated PPP tomorrow for the cities that have undergone changes.
It looks like we're decided to put Oxford in COMMERCE. So if somebody (revent
) wants to make a detailed plan for what tiles Commerce will work for the next 10 turns, that will be very useful.
Is Heroic Epic going in Production? It could start that now.
I think Zhou should start on the AP. We have lots of Buddhist buildings already.
Now that Paris isn't going to build Oxford, I think it should start Notre Dame right away. It can first build a few chariots for garrison duty.
Can we build Sankore too? We can start it when stone gets in if that makes people feel better.
Are we going to declare on Hammy and SB? With what units? Wait until Rifles and Cannons perhaps?
It looks like we're decided to put Oxford in COMMERCE. So if somebody (revent
) wants to make a detailed plan for what tiles Commerce will work for the next 10 turns, that will be very useful. Is Heroic Epic going in Production? It could start that now.
I think Zhou should start on the AP. We have lots of Buddhist buildings already.
Now that Paris isn't going to build Oxford, I think it should start Notre Dame right away. It can first build a few chariots for garrison duty.
Can we build Sankore too? We can start it when stone gets in if that makes people feel better.
Are we going to declare on Hammy and SB? With what units? Wait until Rifles and Cannons perhaps?
Trystero
Deity
Assume we are successful at grabbing Medicine from Lib, would the plan then be to beeline Corporations (hopefully grabbing the GM from Econ) to get Sids ASAP?
Yes, I think so.
Trystero
Deity
Corporations soon would also let us get Wall Street built in Bibracte. WS + Shrine = 
Yes indeed, WS in Bibracte, for sure.
Not sure on where we will go next. Depends if any the AI go down the nationalism route. If they do, then maybe they can research the top of the tree Nat-> Constitution -> Demo.
But yes, Sushi asap is very, very attractive.
Not sure on where we will go next. Depends if any the AI go down the nationalism route. If they do, then maybe they can research the top of the tree Nat-> Constitution -> Demo.
But yes, Sushi asap is very, very attractive.
No rush for HE, we have built most of the units we need for now. Though I do agree with it going in Production.
@Notre Dame in Paris sounds good to me, but wait for Stone. With Stone & IND, and no-one else having Engineering yet (OK, Hammy gets it in 3 turns), but we should win this race easily. Slow build Salon until its finished in 1 turn, then whip for max overflow into ND (~100h), times very well with Vienne coming our of revolt. We want paris to grow a bit.
Barb City & Production could build a few Chariots, or a bit more basic infra, like a lighthouse, market & salon.
@Sankore, in Production after the Salon/Chariots maybe, or in Zhou after AP, or Paris after ND.
@AP, happy for us to start on this in Zhou.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Agree with Neil's assessment - AP in Zhou now, wait on the others until we have stone.
I think Rams will build us the AP. He has a monopoly on Theology after all. It doesn't even matter if he builds it in Conf because we get the bonus on the hammers anyway!
Sankore seems reasonable but ONLY if we find we have nothing better to build.
Notre Dame is a good to go from me
Do we plan to war again? Earlier on, Neil suggested we won't be so not sure on that. HE is not a priority if we don't plan to war again.
Corps-Regarding Corps, Constitution is a preq.
What I was thinking: We could completely kill off sb and sal, take our cities of choice and create a colony from the rest.
Sankore seems reasonable but ONLY if we find we have nothing better to build.
Notre Dame is a good to go from me
Do we plan to war again? Earlier on, Neil suggested we won't be so not sure on that. HE is not a priority if we don't plan to war again.
Corps-Regarding Corps, Constitution is a preq.
What I was thinking: We could completely kill off sb and sal, take our cities of choice and create a colony from the rest.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I was thinking we might do a very limited war on the other continent, taking a few choice cities.
I hope Ramesses doesn't live long enough to build the AP for us, though it would be nice if he did.
I wonder if our two victory conditions should be AP and Culture?
I hope Ramesses doesn't live long enough to build the AP for us, though it would be nice if he did.
I wonder if our two victory conditions should be AP and Culture?
PPP - Turn 167
Technologies
Research Gunpowder at 80% to completion. Turn off slider next turn.
City Builds
Paris: Salon (slow build). We can micro this at the end to make sure that we it is as close to finished as possible the turn before stone comes online. Paris will work the cottages this turn, and next turn add the grassland mine. The overflow from the Salon will go into Notre Dame.
GP Farm: Run 5 specialists and slow build the University.
Production: University is currently being slow built. We grow in two turns and I can either three pop whip away coast, a plains hill mine, and a desert mine. Or wait two more turns and do a 2-pop whip. I'm in favor of the 3-pop whip as all of those tiles are lame. Chariot next. Then start the AP (this timing works better since Zhou can then overflow into Sankore the same turn we get stone).
Commerce: Slow building the university while working the two mines, the flood plain cottages, and 2 grassland cottages. It might actually be better to late Production take two of the flood plain cottages so that Commerce can work two riverside plains cottages for the extra hammers and cottage growth.
Clams: Slow building university. It's going to get a chop into it and then will be able to whip it in time for Oxford in Commerce. Neil, we don't have to work the mines, since we're getting the chop. We can work the cottages instead, which are really vital that we get growing.
West Fish: Slow build University. It too will be ready to whip in 7 turns. (We will have enough universities ready to whip faster than 7 turns if we want to start Oxford in commerce a few turns before we have stone.)
Barb City: I am going to 3-pop whip the university this turn, whipping away an engineer, watermill, and plains hill mine. Overflow into a chariot.
Zhou: Salon. SLOW BUILD to within 1 hammer of completion and then whip for 1-pop with max overflow into Sankore the turn stone gets online.
Fake Humbaba: Slow building a harbor until we can whip it in.
West Coast Silk: Library for one turn. Then 2-pop whip with overflow into a University.
Wheat: Chariot. There's a ton of overflow hammers right now, so we'll take the chariot for MP, then the next build is a library for one turn so that we can 2-pop whip it the turn after that. Neil, I don't want to go straight to Library since if we went do we'd get too many hammers to 2-pop whip. This city can be either a great cottage city or a super production center. Which do we need more for the empire? I think cottages since we've all agreed that FT1 is going to be the last thing.
Red Fish Blue Fish: Slow building the Harbor until it can whip it in.
Bibracte: Finish the Buddhist Missionary. Market is next (+8 gpt), then courthouse (+4 gpt).
Sugar Gems: Forge until growth and then 2-pop whip with overflow into Library.
Ski Resort: Granary until it can be whipped in. Overflow into Forge. This is another city that can go either way. And again I vote we cottage it pretty heavily. I'll get some farms to irrigate the corn, but I don't think it's going to need any farms (it's got corn and pigs for now) as we'll soon be getting so much food from Sushi.
Camel Dumdum: Revolution for two more turns, then forge.
Stone (formerly Vienne): Revolution for 7 turns.
Worker Micro
The worker micro will stay the same as before. We're getting the new cities set up with mostly cottages and chopping forests into vital infrastructure.
Foreign Relations
Sell our Map to Saladin and Qin
Trade maps with Brennus (willing to give him some gold if he wants it, but not likely that he will)
Corn to Sitting Bull for 2 gpt. We'll get new corn in three turns, before we have any health problems.
War Plans
Neil, I disagree with moving the army to the plains hamlet. I would instead like to move it 1N of Bibracte. See the following plans:
The units that move would look like this:
I uploaded a new version of the save that has the tiles I plan to work this turn. I'm ready for comments or greens.
Technologies
Research Gunpowder at 80% to completion. Turn off slider next turn.
City Builds
Paris: Salon (slow build). We can micro this at the end to make sure that we it is as close to finished as possible the turn before stone comes online. Paris will work the cottages this turn, and next turn add the grassland mine. The overflow from the Salon will go into Notre Dame.
GP Farm: Run 5 specialists and slow build the University.
Production: University is currently being slow built. We grow in two turns and I can either three pop whip away coast, a plains hill mine, and a desert mine. Or wait two more turns and do a 2-pop whip. I'm in favor of the 3-pop whip as all of those tiles are lame. Chariot next. Then start the AP (this timing works better since Zhou can then overflow into Sankore the same turn we get stone).
Commerce: Slow building the university while working the two mines, the flood plain cottages, and 2 grassland cottages. It might actually be better to late Production take two of the flood plain cottages so that Commerce can work two riverside plains cottages for the extra hammers and cottage growth.
Clams: Slow building university. It's going to get a chop into it and then will be able to whip it in time for Oxford in Commerce. Neil, we don't have to work the mines, since we're getting the chop. We can work the cottages instead, which are really vital that we get growing.
West Fish: Slow build University. It too will be ready to whip in 7 turns. (We will have enough universities ready to whip faster than 7 turns if we want to start Oxford in commerce a few turns before we have stone.)
Barb City: I am going to 3-pop whip the university this turn, whipping away an engineer, watermill, and plains hill mine. Overflow into a chariot.
Zhou: Salon. SLOW BUILD to within 1 hammer of completion and then whip for 1-pop with max overflow into Sankore the turn stone gets online.
Fake Humbaba: Slow building a harbor until we can whip it in.
West Coast Silk: Library for one turn. Then 2-pop whip with overflow into a University.
Wheat: Chariot. There's a ton of overflow hammers right now, so we'll take the chariot for MP, then the next build is a library for one turn so that we can 2-pop whip it the turn after that. Neil, I don't want to go straight to Library since if we went do we'd get too many hammers to 2-pop whip. This city can be either a great cottage city or a super production center. Which do we need more for the empire? I think cottages since we've all agreed that FT1 is going to be the last thing.
Red Fish Blue Fish: Slow building the Harbor until it can whip it in.
Bibracte: Finish the Buddhist Missionary. Market is next (+8 gpt), then courthouse (+4 gpt).
Sugar Gems: Forge until growth and then 2-pop whip with overflow into Library.
Ski Resort: Granary until it can be whipped in. Overflow into Forge. This is another city that can go either way. And again I vote we cottage it pretty heavily. I'll get some farms to irrigate the corn, but I don't think it's going to need any farms (it's got corn and pigs for now) as we'll soon be getting so much food from Sushi.
Camel Dumdum: Revolution for two more turns, then forge.
Stone (formerly Vienne): Revolution for 7 turns.
Worker Micro
The worker micro will stay the same as before. We're getting the new cities set up with mostly cottages and chopping forests into vital infrastructure.
Foreign Relations
Sell our Map to Saladin and Qin
Trade maps with Brennus (willing to give him some gold if he wants it, but not likely that he will)
Corn to Sitting Bull for 2 gpt. We'll get new corn in three turns, before we have any health problems.
War Plans
Neil, I disagree with moving the army to the plains hamlet. I would instead like to move it 1N of Bibracte. See the following plans:
Spoiler :
The units that move would look like this:
Spoiler :
I uploaded a new version of the save that has the tiles I plan to work this turn. I'm ready for comments or greens.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I'd rather wait for two pop whips in Zhou and Barb City.
Green, even if you do the three pop whip.
Green, even if you do the three pop whip.
Similar threads
