ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Do we have a PPP for continued turns, or did you play through the full PPP?
I'm fine with Benginal continuing to play, but would like a PPP
I'm fine with Benginal continuing to play, but would like a PPP
SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Yes, we probably will lose a few more units, but we still have lots.... enough for 2 SoD's.
Any replacement units should be Trebs, as that is what we are most likely to lose, as they will be attacking first. We should have enough cleanup units as long as we collateral the cities first.
30h Chariots are much better MP's than 80h Musketeers IMO.
Your battle plan was pretty much what I was thinking. Heal in Stone for 1 turn, then move. Both SoD's should bombard for a turn while the Maces heal.
I would like to take 2 Maces and raze that island city straight away, as it will only get tougher with cultural defenses, a Dun and maybe a LB.
- 1 Galleon to go pick up 3 workers, drop 2 off in mainland and other to the island, get GG.
- Missionary to get on the Caravel, Brennus has a Trireme in Durnovia, so watch out for that
- beg for all of Qin's gold.
Same with Hammy & SB once their gold is above 50.
edit:
- whip Red Fish Blue Fish Forge this turn
- have GP Farm work the PH mine, not the coast tile
Any replacement units should be Trebs, as that is what we are most likely to lose, as they will be attacking first. We should have enough cleanup units as long as we collateral the cities first.
30h Chariots are much better MP's than 80h Musketeers IMO.
Your battle plan was pretty much what I was thinking. Heal in Stone for 1 turn, then move. Both SoD's should bombard for a turn while the Maces heal.
I would like to take 2 Maces and raze that island city straight away, as it will only get tougher with cultural defenses, a Dun and maybe a LB.
- 1 Galleon to go pick up 3 workers, drop 2 off in mainland and other to the island, get GG.
- Missionary to get on the Caravel, Brennus has a Trireme in Durnovia, so watch out for that
- beg for all of Qin's gold.
Same with Hammy & SB once their gold is above 50.edit:
- whip Red Fish Blue Fish Forge this turn
- have GP Farm work the PH mine, not the coast tile
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Other than perhaps a few trebs, I don't see any reason to build more units. They are just costing us maintenance and we don't need them to kill Brennus and Ramesses.
Happy for benginal to keep playing, the PPP is still valid for a few more turns.
Keep research at 0% for another 5 turns when:
- We know what Qin is researching next
- The stone is online and the Uni in Commerce has been whipped for huge o/f into OU
Agreed!
edit:
I am very tempted for Production to start the AP this turn though. Theo has been out there for a while, and we want to make sure the AP is buddhist if we can, because we obviously want it, means we don't need UN for the Decathlon.
Keep research at 0% for another 5 turns when:
- We know what Qin is researching next
- The stone is online and the Uni in Commerce has been whipped for huge o/f into OU
Agreed!
edit:
I am very tempted for Production to start the AP this turn though. Theo has been out there for a while, and we want to make sure the AP is buddhist if we can, because we obviously want it, means we don't need UN for the Decathlon.
SteelHorse
Deity
Perhaps I focus too much on the benefits of what is being whipped versus the best time to whip
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Yes, let's do this now.
SteelHorse
Deity
Agree with this big time. AP will help in both the short run and long run. Don't want to have it founded in the wrong religion.
Not sure I agree on no more units. Looks like we have 11 trebs, 5 CBs, and 12 mace. If we are planning 2 stacks, which I agree with, 2-3 more mace in each would be nice and yes a second supermedic.
We should also take out the island city before he get a LB in there. Easiest now, hopefully a CR Mace, but it may take 2.
A shame Hammy is going for DR, now real helpful to us. But no competition for Lib which is good.
Yes, Production should maximise its hammers.
Give the 2 FP's back to Commerce and work all hammer tiles.
Commerce to work the 2 FP's, and not the 2 grass cottages, as we still want to whip in 4 turns for max o/f.
edit: Don't forget we also have a 3 Pikes, so really we have 20 cleanup units, that seems like a lot to me. But this is something we can play by ear. If we suffer too many losses against Brennus, we can produce a few more of whatever we need.
edit: and another thing, we should leave Durocortorum for last, gaurantees we finish off Brennus and complete another Decathlon objective, it would be mildly upsetting if we didn't deal the final blow.
edit: and can a worker go chop the forest near Production as well, we have to try ensure we get AP.
edit: cities building Stone wonders could use whipped Cats for overflow abuse. (1 turn invested, then 2 pop whip, = ~70 hammers o/f), and we get a Cat as well, which would be useful for suiciding.
Give the 2 FP's back to Commerce and work all hammer tiles.
Commerce to work the 2 FP's, and not the 2 grass cottages, as we still want to whip in 4 turns for max o/f.
edit: Don't forget we also have a 3 Pikes, so really we have 20 cleanup units, that seems like a lot to me. But this is something we can play by ear. If we suffer too many losses against Brennus, we can produce a few more of whatever we need.
edit: and another thing, we should leave Durocortorum for last, gaurantees we finish off Brennus and complete another Decathlon objective, it would be mildly upsetting if we didn't deal the final blow.
edit: and can a worker go chop the forest near Production as well, we have to try ensure we get AP.
edit: cities building Stone wonders could use whipped Cats for overflow abuse. (1 turn invested, then 2 pop whip, = ~70 hammers o/f), and we get a Cat as well, which would be useful for suiciding.
Trystero
Deity
I agree on all accounts.
I'm fine with no musketeers.
I really didn't think we needed more units, just throwing ideas out there.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Yeah, I feel like we've made or suggested enough changes to the previous PPP that a new one, even if it's just confirming the old one, would be a good idea.
Turns 171-172 PPP
Research
Keep the slider at 0% with Scientific Method as a placeholder. Wait until we can trade for Guilds and then use the scientist to bulb some of Sci Meth.
We could research this ourselves and do something else with the Great Scientist, who's shaving 2 turns off the tech at 100% slider.
We don't have to decide now what to do since we have a lot of Salons and Universities still to be built. And we can only maintain 100% slider for 6 or 7 turns. Also, there's no urgent techs that are very close. We're running a 10k (not quite a marathon) to Medicine right now. So getting to Scientific Method super fast isn't helpful.
I think bulbing with Great Scientist is best since we have an ambitious lib target where every turn could matter, but there's an argument to be made for building an academy in any city that's going to be running fifteen scientists. I'll leave it to you guys for debate. QUESTION 1: What do with the scientist?
City Builds
Paris: Salon (slow build). We can micro this at the end to make sure that we it is as close to finished as possible the turn before stone comes online. The overflow from the Salon will go into Notre Dame.
GP Farm: Run 5 specialists and slow build the University. We know have an extra citizen who I'm going to have work the grassland mine. It's either that or coast. QUESTION 2: Grassland mine or coast?
Production: Start the Apostolic Palace. I really want this wonder, so I vote no overflow whipping into it. The build will go faster if we don't whip but rather grow onto the mines. We can inefficiently whip at the end if we're worried about getting it.
Commerce: Slow building the university while working the two mines and a bunch of cottages.
Clams: Salon. A lot of cities are now building Salons. After that I think we need to start mass building Buddhist buildings in anticipation of the AP and Sankore.
West Fish: Salon. West fish gave one of the flood plain cottages to Fake Humbaba. QUESTION 3: Work the riverside grassland mine for growth in 3 turns or the coast for growth in 2 turns?
Barb City: Salon.
Zhou: Slow build the Salon. We'll wait for the stone to get online and then whip with overflow into Sankore.
Fake Humbaba: Buddhist temple. This city has enough trade routes that a University or Salon would add 7 beakers per turn at 100% research. But we're coming out of slavery soon and we need to whip in some hammer builds so this city isn't totally useless.
West Coast Silk: Salon. QUESTION 4: Grassland mine for growth in 2 turns or coast for growth in 1 turn?
Wheat: Library. Keep it under 18 hammers!
Red Fish Blue Fish: Forge. WHIP IT NOW. Overflow into Library. We need to get Buddhism here so this city can build the AP buildings.
Bibracte: Market (+8 gpt), then courthouse (+4 gpt).
Sugar Gems: Library.
Ski Resort: Granary WHIP THIS TURN. Overflow into forge.
Camel Dumdum: Forge.
Stone: Revolution for 4 turns.
Worker Micro
Continue as before. The three captured Celtic workers will get on a galleon and cross over to our side of the bay. Neil, why did you want to send one to the island? What do we need over there?
Foreign Relations
Beg Qin for all of his gold (60).
Beg for gold from Hammy and Sitting Bull when their gold stores get above 50.
War Plans
I agree that leaving Brennus a city so that Thebes is not his last city is a good idea. But I think Duroctorum is not a good choice. It's got gems, the maintenance will not be high, and it's got a lot of valuable grassland tiles we need to clear of jungle and get cottages on. I vote leaving bagacum since it's crap. Not to mention that it's out of the way and not roaded to.
The following plans are pretty much as discussed.
A new save has been uploaded with all the tiles and builds I'm planning. Whips are specified in the PPP.
Research
Keep the slider at 0% with Scientific Method as a placeholder. Wait until we can trade for Guilds and then use the scientist to bulb some of Sci Meth.
We could research this ourselves and do something else with the Great Scientist, who's shaving 2 turns off the tech at 100% slider.
We don't have to decide now what to do since we have a lot of Salons and Universities still to be built. And we can only maintain 100% slider for 6 or 7 turns. Also, there's no urgent techs that are very close. We're running a 10k (not quite a marathon) to Medicine right now. So getting to Scientific Method super fast isn't helpful.
I think bulbing with Great Scientist is best since we have an ambitious lib target where every turn could matter, but there's an argument to be made for building an academy in any city that's going to be running fifteen scientists. I'll leave it to you guys for debate. QUESTION 1: What do with the scientist?
City Builds
Paris: Salon (slow build). We can micro this at the end to make sure that we it is as close to finished as possible the turn before stone comes online. The overflow from the Salon will go into Notre Dame.
GP Farm: Run 5 specialists and slow build the University. We know have an extra citizen who I'm going to have work the grassland mine. It's either that or coast. QUESTION 2: Grassland mine or coast?
Production: Start the Apostolic Palace. I really want this wonder, so I vote no overflow whipping into it. The build will go faster if we don't whip but rather grow onto the mines. We can inefficiently whip at the end if we're worried about getting it.
Commerce: Slow building the university while working the two mines and a bunch of cottages.
Clams: Salon. A lot of cities are now building Salons. After that I think we need to start mass building Buddhist buildings in anticipation of the AP and Sankore.
West Fish: Salon. West fish gave one of the flood plain cottages to Fake Humbaba. QUESTION 3: Work the riverside grassland mine for growth in 3 turns or the coast for growth in 2 turns?
Barb City: Salon.
Zhou: Slow build the Salon. We'll wait for the stone to get online and then whip with overflow into Sankore.
Fake Humbaba: Buddhist temple. This city has enough trade routes that a University or Salon would add 7 beakers per turn at 100% research. But we're coming out of slavery soon and we need to whip in some hammer builds so this city isn't totally useless.
West Coast Silk: Salon. QUESTION 4: Grassland mine for growth in 2 turns or coast for growth in 1 turn?
Wheat: Library. Keep it under 18 hammers!
Red Fish Blue Fish: Forge. WHIP IT NOW. Overflow into Library. We need to get Buddhism here so this city can build the AP buildings.
Bibracte: Market (+8 gpt), then courthouse (+4 gpt).
Sugar Gems: Library.
Ski Resort: Granary WHIP THIS TURN. Overflow into forge.
Camel Dumdum: Forge.
Stone: Revolution for 4 turns.
Worker Micro
Continue as before. The three captured Celtic workers will get on a galleon and cross over to our side of the bay. Neil, why did you want to send one to the island? What do we need over there?
Foreign Relations
Beg Qin for all of his gold (60).
Beg for gold from Hammy and Sitting Bull when their gold stores get above 50.
War Plans
I agree that leaving Brennus a city so that Thebes is not his last city is a good idea. But I think Duroctorum is not a good choice. It's got gems, the maintenance will not be high, and it's got a lot of valuable grassland tiles we need to clear of jungle and get cottages on. I vote leaving bagacum since it's crap. Not to mention that it's out of the way and not roaded to.
The following plans are pretty much as discussed.
Spoiler :
A new save has been uploaded with all the tiles and builds I'm planning. Whips are specified in the PPP.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Bulb the Great Scientist, that's what we should do with every Great Scientist. I can't imagine there's anything a Great Scientist can do for us that's better than a bulb.
I favor working the grassland mines in Commerce, West Fish, and West Coast Silk.
I agree with leaving Bagacum for last, and razing it when Brennus dies.
I don't see an assault on the desert island one tile city in this plan. I'd really like to see us take that out as soon as possible.
I favor working the grassland mines in Commerce, West Fish, and West Coast Silk.
I agree with leaving Bagacum for last, and razing it when Brennus dies.
I don't see an assault on the desert island one tile city in this plan. I'd really like to see us take that out as soon as possible.
1) Bulb SM, but wait for Chemistry, if we can, as it is a pre-req (either we do it first or trade for it) (I may have confused the 2 earlier, sorry)
2) Mine, for sure. Make it the PH mine, as the extra 1 food makes no difference
3) Hmmmm, tougher one, I'm easy either way
4) Mine
OK, good argument for leaving Bagacum til last.
@ workers, you are right no real reason to send a worker to the island, we still have a few unimproved tiles, but there is no rush.
I still want a worker to go chop that forest for Production though
@ desert island, survivors from Durnovaria can get it and Duro.
GREEN from me.
2) Mine, for sure. Make it the PH mine, as the extra 1 food makes no difference
3) Hmmmm, tougher one, I'm easy either way
4) Mine
OK, good argument for leaving Bagacum til last.
@ workers, you are right no real reason to send a worker to the island, we still have a few unimproved tiles, but there is no rush.
I still want a worker to go chop that forest for Production though
@ desert island, survivors from Durnovaria can get it and Duro.
GREEN from me.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Green
Trystero
Deity
1. bulb SM
2. work grassland mine
3. mine
4. mine
Agree with leaving Bagacum for last.
Green from me.
2. work grassland mine
3. mine
4. mine
Agree with leaving Bagacum for last.
Green from me.
Yes, as Neil says. We'll splinter our second stack and go get it. We have no full health maces at the moment. But we'll get there. Never fear.
What have we decided on Research for the short-term? Am I a go to keep the slider off for the next two turns? Or should I start manually researching one of Chemistry or Scientific Method?
Slider off until we know what Qin is researching, stay on SM.
We may get Chemistry in a trade, its unlikely, but you never know.
We may get Chemistry in a trade, its unlikely, but you never know.
I'll try, but its unlikely, my boss is in my office preparing for a teleconference
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