SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

Benginal - That is a new standard in PPP:goodjob:

We have 524 beakers left on Astronomy. We're getting 305 beakers and -171 gold per turn at 100% and 15 beakers a turn and 79 gold per turn at 0%. So we're going to need about 6 or 7 turns depending on the gold per turn going forward. Would you rather me get to Astro as quickly as possibly (by running the slider at maybe 70%) or stick to strict binary.
I was keeping gold in bank low to avoid large begs from AI. It is unlikely any other AI have Astro for trade given our beeline.

CS next makes sense. We will want to trade for Construction not research ourselves. After that will depend on what AI have. With Construction and CS we have what we need for an army. My preference afterward is to Educ and the Universities.

Brens will trade Constr for MC, but we probably want to bribe him into war with Rams and maybe try to get part const as part of a bride. In any case we can wait 6-7 turns to find out.

In other news, he also has spices and we have extra clams. Did I miss some reason we're not doing this trade? I guess we don't need the happiness this turn, but we will soon I imagine.
Was waiting to get some gold instead as we weren't in immediate need of the happy. Maybe want to sell Lit for Rams for 40g.

Why won't Sitting Bull trade Construction? Does this mean he thinks Construction is a monopoly tech? I'm not quite sure on the trading dymanics in this case. He can't be isolated since he has Hinduism, yeah?
That is the way that I read it.

Paris
Builds: Buddhist Monastery -> Confucian Monastery -> Confucian Missionaries.
Don't forget after Astro we want to build Salons for 25% research in our high bpt cities.

GP Farm
Builds: Whip the Trireme. I think I'm more inclined to build a Buddhist temple next, rather than a harbor. I think the harbor will add about 2 gold at the moment. True, it will be better after astro, but I think we can go temple -> harbor. Since working that plains mine feels like a crime in the city with the national epic. Also we'll need the temple soon when we get music and start building cathedrals.
IMO - gold is more important short term so harbor before temple, it will be quite a few turns before we get Music.

Production

Tiles: I'm okay with working the flood plain village instead of the forest. But be aware that this delays growth in commerce by a turn, unless we either give commerce one of Paris' green cottages or have commerce stop working the plains hill for a turn. This is my preferred path. Production will switch the forest for a flood plain village and then production will work an engineer. I think this is a good idea. We'll keep ALL GP points other than engineer away from Production. And then we can get a great engineer from Production at the end of the game with factory etc. I'll get a watermill on the riverside plains and the city can then work that instead of the coast. We'll leave the forest for now as we'll be whipping soon anyway.

Builds: Courthouse is good build for now. Do you want me to two-pop whip it into a Barracks (which we will definitely need at some point) or stay big. Again it will depend on war vs. peace. If peace a monastery might not be a terrible idea since this city has pretty decent raw commerce. And depending on our naval affairs a galleon might be necessary to go kill barb galleys. I assume we want a galleon for this instead of a trireme? This city could try and build the MoM after the courthouse? Which might mess up the engineer points, but see clams.
I was trying to grow Commerce as quickly as possible to work all the cottages. It has both a library and a market so it get both multipliers. Prod does not have a market. Commerce in Commerce is better than commerce in prod. I agree on the whip of of the CH into Barracks. This city will produce units for the war. I don't see the need for a Monastery.

Commerce

Builds: Finish this monastery slowly. There's no rush since I'd rather be working cottages. After that I we'll slow build either a barracks (war) or a courthouse (peace). Or is this going to be a city we don't whip during war in which case courthouse no matter what.[/SPOILER]
This is a commerce/research city. After Astro a Salon IMO. No barracks, no whips, pay the troops.

Clams

Tiles: The city is just about to grow and I'll have the extra citizens work either the coast (war) or a scientist (peace). Alternatively, we could have a second city (this one) run only, ever engineers just in case Production can build the MoM. We should also go mine the other gem not in the BFC for trading purposes.
Coast for troop whipping.

East Fish

Builds: Whip the harbor this turn into the courthouse. After that be careful with the whips for library -> lighthouse/barracks/confucian something. Help here.
I would leave lib out for now as we will be whipping for a while to get barracks, Gals, troops.

Barb City

Builds: Whip Courthouse -> Barracks (?). Why the archer? I guess an archer is okay. But maybe wait until after the barracks? Also, we have so many cities without a lot of good infra to build which suggest to me they build some troop and we go kill something.
Archer to free up the medic who can go do some scouting of Brens once there is a replacement garrison.

Rest look fine with the war option - Barracks.

Workers
Worker 1: Are we building cottages in Zhou? If yes, I guess he can build a cottage 1S1W of Zhou. If not, he can chop the forested plain hill into Moai. He could probably also come back to the mainland and help out in West Coast Silk.
Chop and then return.

Spy 1: Is he running counterespionage still? Where has he been doing it? Are we going to keep having him do that?
Counter in Wheat - this was agreed last round.

Chariot 1: Is he going off to Two Fish for garrison purposes? I'm confused about what he's doing on Galley 1. If that's the case, I think I might leave him there until Barb City has finished with its archer just to make sure we don't run into unhappy problems there.
I don't think the chariot is on the galley, it just dropped off the missionary and was awaiting orders.

Caravel 1 & Spy: Continue in a southeastardly direction and try to meet some peeps. When am I suppose to drop off the spy and explore? Right away? I imagine he might got caught so maybe we should wait until we can land him somewhere that's definitely useful. Can spies be capture if they are in caravels?
No point having an exploring spy in a caravel. Put him to work.
 
Benginal - That is a new standard in PPP:goodjob:

Thanks SH! Mostly it's for me to know what I'm supposed to do, :lol:. I'm not very careful in my offline games. It's a nice change.

I was keeping gold in bank low to avoid large begs from AI. It is unlikely any other AI have Astro for trade given our beeline.

Excellent idea! I've never taken care to avoid begs in this way.

CS next makes sense. We will want to trade for Construction not research ourselves. After that will depend on what AI have. With Construction and CS we have what we need for an army. My preference afterward is to Educ and the Universities.

Alright. So far we have SH, Revent, ChrisS, and myself in favor of WAR! Unless one of you other guys gives a really compelling case, it looks like medieval war it is! That being said, I think I might start some xbows if I see nothing else useful to build. We can leave them almost finished in the queue and then when/if we switch to war civics we'll get the extra xp. And we'll save on unit maintenance. We'll also want a few extra galleons to defend our fish. And perhaps to shuttle troops since galleons + circumnavigate will be the best way to travel for several of our cities.

Brens will trade Constr for MC, but we probably want to bribe him into war with Rams and maybe try to get part const as part of a bride. In any case we can wait 6-7 turns to find out.

Of course. We'll wait.

Was waiting to get some gold instead as we weren't in immediate need of the happy. Maybe want to sell Lit for Rams for 40g.

Good call. We'll wait for gold. What do you guys think about selling Lit? I guess I'm okay with it. We could also wait a turn or two and see if he gets some more gold in the bank?

Don't forget after Astro we want to build Salons for 25% research in our high bpt cities.

:( I totally forgot about Salons. Who should get these? Paris and commerce? I think nobody else since we won't have time to finish them before we start amassing troops? I may also build the Shwedagon for fail gold since we have gold and are industrious.

IMO - gold is more important short term so harbor before temple, it will be quite a few turns before we get Music.

I understand the logic. But I think the priest slot is more important than the extra two gold. Others?

I was trying to grow Commerce as quickly as possible to work all the cottages. It has both a library and a market so it get both multipliers. Prod does not have a market. Commerce in Commerce is better than commerce in prod. I agree on the whip of of the CH into Barracks. This city will produce units for the war. I don't see the need for a Monastery.

Everyone is agreed then. No whipping in commerce. Grow the city big. Work cottages. In production whip the CH into Barracks and start (?) on troops.

Archer to free up the medic who can go do some scouting of Brens once there is a replacement garrison.

Alrighty.

No point having an exploring spy in a caravel. Put him to work.

Alright. I'll land him as soon as reasonable (probably next turn but maybe the turn after that).
 
Have you included a scouting unit to find Brennus's stack and the number and type of units he has defending each city? In an ideal world, we could do a blitzkreig tactic and try to take multiple cities in the first turn of war. The effectiveness of this will depend on how well we scout the cities to figure out the number and types of units we will need to take him out.

As for UB, they're not urgent and I think necessary ONLY in our high commerce cities so perhaps we could post pone them until after the war? :)
 
Have you included a scouting unit to find Brennus's stack and the number and type of units he has defending each city? In an ideal world, we could do a blitzkreig tactic and try to take multiple cities in the first turn of war. The effectiveness of this will depend on how well we scout the cities to figure out the number and types of units we will need to take him out.

No, but this is super mandatory. Can't believe I left it out, :crazyeye:. I'll take a look at the save later today and see where I should fit in 2 chariots for some quick exploration.

As for UB, they're not urgent and I think necessary ONLY in our high commerce cities so perhaps we could post pone them until after the war? :)

Alright. I agree with this. I tend not to build a ton of observatories anyway. And adding artists slots isn't really doing it for me.
 
That is an amazing ppp!

Agree CS first, we wont finish this for at least 10 turns from now, so i hope to meet more ai by then.

Sell lit to ramesses when he has closer to 100 gold. Hope for construction from other hemisphere.
Bribe brennus into war with Ramesses around the time we learn CS.

@cities
Happy with all analysis:
except fake humbaba, this city really needs a FP, then it can grow a lot faster, this city will be be useful to flip humabas haven. We want to avoid a 4th city on that island as colony maintenace will become awful.
East fish should do lighthouse after courthouse,

Dont build more chariots, if we want chariot scouts, then build archers, or bring some back from the island.

2 pop whip the basic infra without regard for overflow,

Edit: x-post
 
SB isnt trading construction, getting techs fromhim is crazy hard, but him having makes his neighbours more willing.

Salons can wait, imo. We have a very brief window to attack brennus while he hasnt got longbows or crossbows.

Dont bother with the confused monastery in paris yet, build 1 buddhist mish for zhou, and then crossbows. These will be our stack defenders to save the maces to focus on city attack.
 
How does a FP help it grow faster?

After the granary is finished, switch from working the iron to a FP.
With a fp cottage and the clams, it grows at +5 a turn, much better than the current +2.
After granary do a CH, then a lighthouse.
 
Don't we already have chariots? could we build archers for garrison to free up the explorers who are already doing that?

Dont build more chariots, if we want chariot scouts, then build archers, or bring some back from the island.

Of course.

Sell lit to ramesses when he has closer to 100 gold. Hope for construction from other hemisphere.

Alright.

Bribe brennus into war with Ramesses around the time we learn CS.

I'm sure I will have stopped by then for group discussion. I'm not going to unilaterally do something this drastic!

except fake humbaba, this city really needs a FP, then it can grow a lot faster, this city will be be useful to flip humabas haven. We want to avoid a 4th city on that island as colony maintenace will become awful.
East fish should do lighthouse after courthouse,

Alright. East Fish has enough good tiles to work so this makes sense.

2 pop whip the basic infra without regard for overflow,

Okay.

Salons can wait, imo. We have a very brief window to attack brennus while he hasnt got longbows or crossbows.

I agree. I'm worried we may have even missed it by the time we're ready to attack. Fingers crossed ... I haven't played emperor in a while.

Dont bother with the confused monastery in paris yet, build 1 buddhist mish for zhou, and then crossbows. These will be our stack defenders to save the maces to focus on city attack.

Alrighty!
 
:lol:

I too was confused by East Fish, I thought it was a clever reverse name.

Oh, and I wasn't suggesting, that you bribe Brennus to DoW Ramesses without checking, I was just concuring with SH that this was a sensible war move. But this will probably be after your turnset anyway.
 
I think that its a green from me already.

No go find some more AI.
 
Great PPP Benginal.

I agree with the consensus: CS after Astro, spare Commerce from the whip, start building an army.

No trading Monarchy or MC to Brennus.

Feel free to rename the cities.

Green from me!
 
Hopefully we can trade construction with another AI soon enough. If not, would it be possible to sell Brennus MC followed by Compass for Construction? It will save our end game by the X turns where X is the turns it will take us to research construction after all and Brennus will have a very small advantage to be honest.
 
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