SGOTM 17 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

Some thought on Mansa:

- Probably the mapmaker intention in placing Mansa as our only neighbour was to tempt us with the tech trades and delay the war, so that -maybe - we can't be able to finish on time.
- Skirmishers are not much inferior to LBs as i well know having faced them and well used them. Personally i'd never upgrade a skirmisher to a LB, but the AI does and it's a mistake.

About libraries
One thing is not build Oxford, another is to be without the necessary libraries when the time arrives. So six libraries must be planned.
We know that Astro is needed - but Oxford is not a must for that -, but we must be prepared to arrive to combustion or even to paratroopers, which is 2 techs more.

 

[Folket]

If we are not planing for oxford we should not spend to much effort to create a great bureaucracy commerce capital. We can just as well work mines.

All said and done our goal should be to fight the war against Mansa as successful as possible. I do not see that alphabet is a priority tech to get from Mansa. We should beeline something and surly the next AIs we meet already has alphabet.

 

[Shaandore]

PPP

Tech: 0% for 1 turn, then 100% for 2 turns should get us currency. Switch to 0% and save up for Construction.

Military units: workboat goes east to explore peninsula. NW axe goes SW to spawnbust.

Our first settler should go to white dot 3N2W of Vienna. Next settler goes to horse site.

Workers:
Prague worker chops the settler, then chops 1N of Nuremberg.
One Vienna worker chops granary (on T7 Mansa sign so we can build the cottage soon after).
One other goes north to continue chopping and start setting up horse city.
The third one cottages the riverside banana, then chops into Vienna settler.
The new Aachen worker mines the green hill 2W of Aachen, then goes north to help clear jungle.

Cities:
Aachen: worker->barracks slowbuild
Prague: settler (chop)->monument
Vienna: Granary(chop)-> (at size 6)Settler(chop)
Nuremberg: Granary->Monument(chop)->Barracks(to size 4)->Worker(whip)

 

[Shaandore]

If we are not planing for oxford we should not spend to much effort to create a great bureaucracy commerce capital. We can just as well work mines.

All said and done our goal should be to fight the war against Mansa as successful as possible. I do not see that alphabet is a priority tech to get from Mansa. We should beeline something and surly the next AIs we meet already has alphabet.

I don't understand your oxford view. Oxford is the strongest with a cottagecrazy capital.

About Alpha I agree, we will see if we want that or eg. CoL for our UB (which we will need soon anyway)

 

[BLubmuz]

PPP

Tech: 0% for 1 turn, then 100% for 2 turns should get us currency. Switch to 0% and save up for Construction.

Military units: workboat goes east to explore peninsula. NW axe goes SW to spawnbust.

Our first settler should go to white dot 3N2W of Vienna. Next settler goes to horse site.

Workers:
Prague worker chops the settler, then chops 1N of Nuremberg.
One Vienna worker chops granary (on T7 Mansa sign so we can build the cottage soon after).
One other goes north to continue chopping and start setting up horse city.
The third one cottages the riverside banana, then chops into Vienna settler.
The new Aachen worker mines the green hill 2W of Aachen, then goes north to help clear jungle.

Cities:
Aachen: worker->barracks slowbuild
Prague: settler (chop)->monument
Vienna: Granary(chop)-> (at size 6)Settler(chop)
Nuremberg: Granary->Monument(chop)->Barracks(to size 4)->Worker(whip)

2 objections:
- new proposed settling area

Spoiler :

both cities are more than decent. Also, moving the white dot 1W we gain almost immediate pigs and secure marble. Less help to Vienna.

- monument? did not we agreed on libraries instead? oxford can be of use, better not waste hammers on monuments.

 

[BLubmuz]

I don't understand your oxford view. Oxford is the strongest with a cottagecrazy capital.

I do.
Folket assumes that after Astro we can almost stop to research.
He can be right.

But if he's not we are eligible for a wooden spoon. So, no tech intensive like last game, but at least combustion must be on the horizon. Let's not think to paratroopers. Rifles/cavalry can probably be welcome, but not necessary.

 

[Shaandore]

I just see now that I misread Folket's post, (missed the first 'not') and this way the first sentence didn't make sense, but now I get what he is saying.

It really all depends on whether we want to run bureaucracy as a civic. If we do, then cottages in Vienna are still the way to go. (And IMO it is a crazy strong civic, without that it could be hard to get to astro)

On the red proposal: I don't like it because it won't grow cottages for Vienna.

Library vs monument in Nuremberg: you are right, the library will actually have some use there with the ivory, gems and lake. Maybe we could drop some cottages too, it won't be a big whipping center anyway without food resource.

 

[unclethrill]

PPP looks good with BLubmuz suggested changes. As far as city sites, I can't comment since I don't have access to the game to look at them.
I like construction next. I think at that point we should be able to trade currency for alpha but it isn't a must do.
Libraries and Oxford...
We have to play at this point almost like we are heading for a SS VC. The last several games that were conquest oriented were won too early so I feel confident that we will need to tech deep to win. Not because the AI will be teaching so fast but the last 2 will likely be late in the game and if they even just have grens, rifles can have a hard time.

Maybe we won't need it but I would rather have the infrastructure and not need it than to need it and not have it. It may be a middle of the pack ideology but I think that is better than a wooden spoon.

 

[BLubmuz]

On the red proposal: I don't like it because it won't grow cottages for Vienna.

In fact i let both the white and the red.

If you agree and prioritize the blue the white is perfect.

Can you plan the necessary escort/guards and roads (with new workers in case) and see how it can work?

Then we need to settle the horse site, with only 1 tile to road. After that crabs and the island. Last will be the ivory/banana site.

I think that if we decide this we can keep discussing only of techs and micro for a good while. Then the war. Or in parallel. Or anything

 

[Shaandore]

Our economy is not ready for 5 more cities at this moment. We are at 40% slider at break even, and all our new cities will eat much more maintenance than the first 4 cities. I think we should just settle the white and horse, and see where we are. If we are in a good shape, and we still don't have the techs/units to attack, maybe we can settle some more. (Still, I'm afraid they won't contribute to the war, but will slow our production...)

I'm at work, so based on my remembrance:

- in Prague, there are 2 units IIRC (or is it Vienna?). I will send one of them with the settler. The place is fogbusted. If it's Vienna, I will chop an axe/archer there instead of granary, and then switch back to granary.
- there is an axe at horse city spot, and the route to horse site is fogbusted. The axe could be MP in the new city, and no escort is needed.

EDIT: The white dot doesn't need immediate worker attention. Has a pig and cows improved to get started. Maybe it will steal the copper mine if we start with library.

I could play tonight if that's fine.

 

[BLubmuz]

Shaan, the island city will pay for itself giving to any city 1 overseas trade route.

Problem is that the blue city needs to be prioritized to grab the area and that the island city needs the crab city first.

About research, construction right after currency to prepare for war - at least the cats - then CoL for our UB, which is also cheap for us. Unless Mansa research Alpha and we can trade for it.

 

[unclethrill]

Looks good to me. Green light on playing tonight

 

[Folket]

I would prefer to trade for CoL. I will do some research on how much our future cities will cost. But I would like us to spam as many cities as possible while still reaching construction.

There is already an axe standing in Mansas territory close to the Vienna helper city spot. Use it for MP.

For for position. I prefer S of rice as it will have less problem with Mansas culture and will work more cottages. The other spot is doable but we would need to chop both library and monument.

As long as you are building settlers, workers and granaries I'm pretty happy. Libraries in cities where we want culture is nice. I think we can wait a little with barracks.

 

[Shaandore]

@Folket: I agree that CoL is a better trade than Alpha. I won't do any trade without asking the team first.

revised PPP:

Tech: 0% for 1 turn, then 100% for 2 turns should get us currency. Switch to 0% and save up for Construction.

Military units: workboat goes east to explore peninsula. NW axe goes SW to spawnbust. to new city as MP

Our settler goes to white dot 3N2W of Vienna. Next settler goes to horse site.

Workers:
Prague worker chops the settler, then chops 1N of Nuremberg.
One Vienna worker chops granary (on T7 Mansa sign so we can build the cottage soon after).
One other goes north to continue chopping and start setting up horse city.
The third one cottages the riverside banana, then chops into Vienna settler.
The new Aachen worker mines the green hill 2W of Aachen, then goes north to help clear jungle.

Cities:
Aachen: worker->barracks slowbuild
Prague: settler (chop)->monument worker (I won't build a library here. This city will have 1 commerce+trade routes. not worth 90 hammers. If we don't want monument, then we should wait for religion spread.)
Vienna: Granary(chop)-> (at size 6)Settler(chop)
Nuremberg: Granary->library(chop+whip 4->2)
New city: Library (with chop(s))

If there are no objections, I'll play tonight.

 

[Folket]

It looks good to me.

 

[BLubmuz]

@Folket: I agree that CoL is a better trade than Alpha. I won't do any trade without asking the team first.
Let's hope Mansa goes for Alpha. I agree on CoL as a priority.

revised PPP:

Tech: 0% for 1 turn, then 100% for 2 turns should get us currency. Switch to 0% and save up for Construction.

Military units: workboat goes east to explore peninsula. NW axe goes SW to spawnbust. to new city as MP

Our settler goes to white dot 3N2W of Vienna. Next settler goes to horse site.

Finally i "remember" the command for this then:
are you sure the horses site is better than the blue site? I am not. Horses are not needed for our war plans.

Agreed all the rest.

 

[Folket]

That is a very good point by BLubmuz. I think silver or crab for the second city then.

 

[Shaandore]

I will play up to the point where 2nd settler is ready.

 

[Folket]

Great. Green light from me.

 

[Shaandore]

Started playing. What do I do if he asks us to convert? I can't remember if we had a consensus on this. If we had, please let me know.