It's not cool to lose a turn to anarchy, but I think we should probably convert anyway if he asks us. Will make trading easier until we kill him, and eventually we'll get the benefit from OR and such. Will be good tot have if it takes an age and a half before we find other civs and religions.
Think we should start to work towards killing him though. Longbows can appear pretty quickly I wager, and once they do we will need loads of siege.
scouting shows that there is no way across this ocean. We need astro unless there is a route through Mansa. Workboat is on crabs tile now (revealed all it could)
Screenshots show:
- fur on the peninsula. There is also a Fish if we settle on the marked spot
- Missionary about to spread confu in Prague
- Settler ready
- a filler city proposal for cottage growing. With all this food and whipping ahead, it will be worth it. Our happy caps won't rise high enough for us to have no overlap in BFCs.
I changed the Prague worker Vienna Settler because Vienna had crazy OF from the chop, and we got our settler much sooner like this. And we didn't need a new worker that bad.
proposals for next set:
- Start whipping in Aachen. City is powerful, and will soon have Barracks. Take the peninsula with 3-4 swords ASAP for the fur (and resettle on fur to grab fish too)
- settlers for horse and silver city.
- It looks like you guys would like to expand rather than war. It's fine, but then we need CoL now instead of Construction. I would go for Construction though. We have strong cities set up for some nice whipping, some forests to chop. The longer we wait, the more likely we face lbs. I know Blub think they are not much stronger than Skirmishers, but I disagree. They are exactly 50% stronger. And they are a cheap upgrade for the AIs. We would suicide quite a few cats on the hill holy city against lbs. His capital will be very nice with the cottages, too.
- This settler should go to silver spot. I would whip/build 3-4 swords and a settler from Aachen and Prague for Fur city, and whip a settler from Nuremberg for Horse city. IMO this is more than enough expansion before the war. We could start gearing up.
- We need an axe for the silver spot. Aachen is very well fogbusted, and has nice whipping potential, so I consider it safe. We can spare that axe, and shift one axe to the west.
More detailed PPP coming tomorrow.
turn log
Spoiler:
Here is your Session Turn Log from 125 AD to 325 AD:
Turn 120, 125 AD: Gottfried Leibniz (Great Scientist) has been born in Djenne (Mansa Musa)!
Turn 122, 175 AD: You have discovered Currency!
Turn 123, 200 AD: You have trained a Worker in Aachen. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Confucianism has spread in Vienna.
Turn 125, 250 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Vienna. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 126, 275 AD: Vienna can hurry Worker for 3⇴ with 5ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 126, 275 AD: Mo Tzu (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 127, 300 AD: Mansa Musa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Augsburg has been founded.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Confucianism has spread in Augsburg.
Turn 127, 300 AD: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!
Yes, now I think that converting is a good move since now we have many cities with Confu, and Mansa is sending Missionaries our way. We might even consider conerting without him asking us to do so.
I'm not sure an ocean fish is worth the effort to build a settler and to renounce to the commerce of the furs. But i don't have a strong feeling on this.
What i still consider important is the blue city, far more than the horse city.
About the Confu conversion, the consensus was to convert if asked to. But i think we can consider to freely convert if we already have enough cities with Confu.
A simple rule to take the barb city avoiding to gift it to Mansas's Skirmishers: Swords= defenders+1 plus 1 archer and an axe just to be safe. We have already an archer fogbusting where the blue city will be and i think we can move some units S if we want to spare units.
Xposted... i see we agree on the conversion matter
I'm not home, so I can only post a draft PPP, with some questions in red:
Research: 0% for one more turn, then 100% until we get construction.
Diplo:
Convert when we are asked for extra diplo or convert now???
Check trades, trade for any happy resource, or trade spare resources if we can get at least 3 gpt. ???
Non worker/settler units:
workboat starts working crab to save maintenance (and for health)
Aachen's axe goes to Prague (will be replaced), Prague's axe goes to Augsburg, Augsburg's axe goes to silver city (escorts the workers and the settler)
Workers/settlers:
worker 1NW of Vienna chops 1W of Augsburg, after this it improves the pig 2W of Augsburg. Other Augsburg worker chops where he is standing, then roads towards Prague.
worker 1S of Vienna roads the tile 1S of silver city, then starts clearing the pigs. New Vienna worker goes there to help.
Nuremberg worker chops into settler, and starts setting up horse city.
Aachen worker finishes mine, then puts down 2 farms 1NE and 1 NW of Aachen for more efficient whipping.
The built settler goes to silver site, and the Nuremberg settler will settle Horse city.
City builds:
Aachen: finish barracks, start whipping swords (6->4 whip cycle should be fine with an occasional 7->4 into eg. a lighthouse to keep unhappiness on minimum ). Forget the scientists.
Prague: build a settler for yellow dot or barb replacement or island then build a sword/catapult if construction is ready.
Vienna: finish worker, then build galley to settle island ??? alternatively start a barracks.
Nuremberg: put the chop hammers into settler, then switch back to library. Whip settler 4->2, put OF into library.
Augsburg: chops go into library (we really need the culture) Grow on pigs, cows, then start working coattages for Vienna. After library start granary (whip granary 4->2 if possible).
Silver city: granary first, then library
Most likely I won't be able to play until tomorrow afternoon, but we have some things to discuss anyway.
I do not really think we need to get a lighthouse in Aachen. If you are growing to fast you may build on a worker once in a while to time your growth. Are we still running scientists here? I expected that to stop as soon as we got our GS.
Getting 2gpt for a spare resource would be good enough for me. Spare resources are pigs or ivory?
Still think we have no need for horse city. I would prefer island city next. We have improved crabs so that city will generate 9 cpt from turn 1. But I will buy the argument that horse city will box in Mansa preventing him from expanding.
Horse will be a very strong city, I don't want to give that to Mansa. And we get a strat resource we don't need: those things have great trade value.
I agree that island city is important. I propose settling Silver, Horse and Island in the next few turns, and then stopping to get the war going. I think the Prague and Nuremberg settler will be out at roughly the same time, but the travel time will most likely make Island a later city than horse. The built settler is not ready to be transported (we don't have a galley), so it is a natural choice to send it to silver.
Me too would like to settle the island first, but i see the high value in boxing Mansa, so horse has to come right after blue, then crabs and the island.
Yellow will be the last one after ivory.
About the island city, i can be wrong but i think there's coast 2S of the island, along the map border. If this is true (please tell me your thoughts) if we settle on the south side of the island we can sail the ocean after 2nd border expansion. Settle in the "right" spot will need a 3rd botder expansion, so not too soon.
Bout conversion, we have 3 cities out of 5 Confu ATM. I can see a missionary, so soon we have 4. It can be worth to wait a couple turns, but we can have enough good diplo by just share the same religion. We don't need a a UN vote, do we?
Resource trades: I can't see anything we have and Mansa don't or viceversa but the only silk which needs calendar. It goes without saying that we never trade ivory to anyone.
Unfortunately that is not a coast. (I cheked it with cursor.) BTW it is easy to see on screenshot that ocean tiles block us: 1F1C tiles are all ocean. There are some odd ocean tiles at the peninsula and island corners, too.
Unfortunately that is not a coast. (I cheked it with cursor.) BTW it is easy to see on screenshot that ocean tiles block us: 1F1C tiles are all ocean. There are some odd ocean tiles at the peninsula and island corners, too.
Obviously it isn't. I meant 3S of the island along the border. I try to explain:
Code:
4 tiles width, start from 1S of our landmass along the E border of the map
legend (even if obvious):
c= coast
i= island
o= ocean
1-cccc
2-ccii
3-ccii
4-cccc
5-oooo
6-oooc?
If you notice the coast tiles "paint" some lighter blue on the ocean tiles. That's what you can see in the easternmost tile of the 5th row, so i can imagine how the now hidden 6th row can be. Please use the "bare map view".
Needless tosay, if we have culture on those ocean tiles we can move with galleys. It's not a small difference. Maybe is the key to a fast ,or at least to a faster victory. Please don't underestimate that detail. Nor your fearless Captain.
Now I understand what you meant. I can't really see that light blue. I'd rather wait for second border pop than to settle away from crab, unless you are absolutely sure that there is a coast tile.
We need just a library there or research Music and build culture. I won't mind if the city itself is worse if we can gain a passage on the South side without Astro. Can you imagine the advantage we can have that way?
Chi non risica non rosica
freely translated in "no risk no reward".
Then, we don't have a real risk. We just bet on a half-crappy city as the passage South.
Tech trades? it depends... if the AI we meet have met more AIs, good. In any case we gain a lot in start destroying them. With 2-3 galleys we can start to move troops on the coast, then....
Now I understand what you meant. I can't really see that light blue. I'd rather wait for second border pop than to settle away from crab, unless you are absolutely sure that there is a coast tile.
If you use the bare map view you can see it. It must be coast. But we can ask to any team member his opinion. I'm not absolutely sure, but 98%. That light blue makes me think to a mapmaker trick to ease who explores and know the look of the tiles.
We will have access across the ocean through the barb city on the other side of Mansa. Settling on stone does not look fun.
But I agree with Blubmuz, it looks like there is coast there.
Some comments.
One archer from Nuremberg could move east to fogbust the rest of the east. I like moving horse city axeman one step south to fogbust a little more. Archer in SW could move one step W.
You must think to the water masses as small inland seas. On a real world scale, like the Caspian sea.
We have no proof the South sea is connected with the East one. On the contrary the mountain ranges we can see or guess are the proof that the map is divided in at least 4 sectors:
1. NE, the one where we are with Mali
2. a SE sector, of which we can guess a coast
3. a NW sector, divided by the sea where Mansa placed a city and where we can partly see the barb city
4. we can only guess from the above that there can be a SW sector, divided by something difficult to pass, which can require paratroopers or combustion to be passed. Even a sea like the 2 we already know of can be a big trouble, being so far from our core.
Please don't forget that the apparently simple VC - conquest - will surely hide something even more difficult than the last game.
Lastly, i agree that settle on the stone is not fun. We're here to have other kind of fun anyway (like write down long posts ) so if that is the price to pay to have the incommensurable fun to win a medal and to beat certain teams, i think that i wanna pay that price. Objections like yours were probably foreseen by the mapmaker.
That move can mean some 50 or even more turns on a victory.
At this point i propose: let's throw our heart beyond the obstacle, let's settle blue and horses, build a galley and settle that island ASAP. The sooner those borders expand, the sooner we know what is awaiting us on the other side.
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) so if that is the price to pay to have the incommensurable fun to win a medal and to beat certain teams, i think that i wanna pay that price. Objections like yours were probably foreseen by the mapmaker.
