SGOTM 17 - The Shawshank Redemption
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Dhoomstriker
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I used our latest test game, Test Game F, from message 670.
Here's a direct link to the Test Game F saved game.
I followed the Scenario B] approach from the PPP_updated spreadsheet, which was posted in message 790.
From there I just did what I felt made sense... I settled City 3 by the Copper, then two Coastal Cities because they had a lot of open, Cottageable land and allowed me to skimp on early Road-building.
I then settled to the north-west by the Rice and Fur, followed by settling to the north-east by the Ivory.
It's likely that you'll need the Happiness from an Ivory Resource sooner. I found that Settler 3 before Worker 2 was a mistake... we're short too many Worker turns that way.
As I said, it could be worth it to build an early Library, but I waited until after I had settled 6 Cities and felt that I had the Barbs under control. I built my 6th City on Turn 51, 350 BC. I'm fine if you build a Library earlier than I did, but if you do, I suggest that you save up some Gold for a few turns prior to completing the Library, to get the most use out of it.
I'm going to be quite honest: I think that if you played an Alphabet-first game, you'd post a stronger result than a Math-first game. Being able to build Research is quite strong. But, perhaps you'll have a use for the stronger Forest Chops, such as Chopping out Libraries to hire Scientists earlier.
Another alternative is to research Math -> a good portion of Alphabet -> get Alphabet in trade from Suryavarman. Since he researched Alphabet in my game (I received it in trade on Turn 69, 100 AD), I think that it's fair that by the time you are ready to receive it in trade for Math, you can use the World Builder to give Alphabet to Suryavarman.
I put 134/438 Flasks into Alphabet before I could get it in trade, though, so you'd likely need to dump more Flasks into Alphabet to get it in trade for Math.
If you're willing to try multiple approaches and compare them, go for it. If not, then do your best with whichever option you pick.
Dhoomstriker
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Oh, another thing: In our test game, we don't have Open Borders with Monte. You might as well open them right away. I found that he spread a bunch of Hindu Missionaries to my Cities in my game, but I did not switch to Hinduism.
For the most part, I settled my Cities not expecting to get Cultural Border expansions... i.e. I settled them to get the valuable Resources without needing a Cultural Border expansion... the only place where it really seemed to matter was that I got to work a second Lake in the City which I settled 1W of the wet G Banana (the wet G Banana that was 1W of the "settle in place" location).
Feel free to settle your Cities wherever you want, in whatever order, and using whatever timing. I don't see a stronger location for City 2 (unless the G Riv Pig gets a Jungle, and even then, it's probably still tied with the next best location that we've revealed to date), but you'll probably need to put City 3 or 4 by the Ivory just to keep Happiness under control.
EDIT: Note that I also built a Monument at Ivory City and a Monument at the Rice + Fur City location to the north-west, so I wasn't relying on Monte's Hinduism at either location.
City 2 eventually at a got Library, the Copper City could have just stolen Coast squares from the capital, and Crab + dry Banana City only worked squares within its initial 9-square-radius.
So, I don't think that I was taking advantage of Monte's Hinduism.
For the most part, I settled my Cities not expecting to get Cultural Border expansions... i.e. I settled them to get the valuable Resources without needing a Cultural Border expansion... the only place where it really seemed to matter was that I got to work a second Lake in the City which I settled 1W of the wet G Banana (the wet G Banana that was 1W of the "settle in place" location).
Feel free to settle your Cities wherever you want, in whatever order, and using whatever timing. I don't see a stronger location for City 2 (unless the G Riv Pig gets a Jungle, and even then, it's probably still tied with the next best location that we've revealed to date), but you'll probably need to put City 3 or 4 by the Ivory just to keep Happiness under control.
EDIT: Note that I also built a Monument at Ivory City and a Monument at the Rice + Fur City location to the north-west, so I wasn't relying on Monte's Hinduism at either location.
City 2 eventually at a got Library, the Copper City could have just stolen Coast squares from the capital, and Crab + dry Banana City only worked squares within its initial 9-square-radius.
So, I don't think that I was taking advantage of Monte's Hinduism.
OK, I am so done....
This is why I HATE this type of testing... Here is why the games are not particularly comparable...
1-I got no opertunity to trade until turn 70. Those with Alpha "did not like me enough"
2-Monty declares war on me!! I went into Worldbuilder and undid that, but now the game is bugged, and despite reopening borders, I did NOT get the internation trade routes back!!
Anyway, attached is the save... It says I am loosing 6gpt, but notice that is NOT valide. I am break even if you imagine the 6 international trade routes I am supposed to have for a reasonable compairison.
I trade Math for IW on turn 70, and then traded currency for Alpha (could have taken Monarchy instead) from the SAME trade partner (thus similating what I think reality will be in the game.)
I then completly self-teched COL, which just completed (turn 84), so that I can start building rathouses.
I have 8 cities, and a settler ready to plant the 9th once I can afford it. I also have TWO Great Scientist ready, because I did not use them to try and make it a closer compairison. If I had used settled the first one, I could easily have the same position as in the test game around turn 80.
I like the state of this empire MUCH more than I did the previous test. Yes, we are bassically bankrupt at 0% research (Tho I am still owed at least 15 gc from the internation routes. I gave myself back some of it using WB, but did not bother o do it every turn), but will be able to whip rathouses soon enough, which will not only fix the economy, but also kickstart any spy operations we want.
Bottom line, this playthrough makes me more convince than ever that Math-Currency-COL is the right play.
This is why I HATE this type of testing... Here is why the games are not particularly comparable...
1-I got no opertunity to trade until turn 70. Those with Alpha "did not like me enough"
2-Monty declares war on me!! I went into Worldbuilder and undid that, but now the game is bugged, and despite reopening borders, I did NOT get the internation trade routes back!!
Anyway, attached is the save... It says I am loosing 6gpt, but notice that is NOT valide. I am break even if you imagine the 6 international trade routes I am supposed to have for a reasonable compairison.
I trade Math for IW on turn 70, and then traded currency for Alpha (could have taken Monarchy instead) from the SAME trade partner (thus similating what I think reality will be in the game.)
I then completly self-teched COL, which just completed (turn 84), so that I can start building rathouses.
I have 8 cities, and a settler ready to plant the 9th once I can afford it. I also have TWO Great Scientist ready, because I did not use them to try and make it a closer compairison. If I had used settled the first one, I could easily have the same position as in the test game around turn 80.
I like the state of this empire MUCH more than I did the previous test. Yes, we are bassically bankrupt at 0% research (Tho I am still owed at least 15 gc from the internation routes. I gave myself back some of it using WB, but did not bother o do it every turn), but will be able to whip rathouses soon enough, which will not only fix the economy, but also kickstart any spy operations we want.
Bottom line, this playthrough makes me more convince than ever that Math-Currency-COL is the right play.
Mitchum
Deity
Thanks for running the test, Jastrow! 
I agree that longer-term tests like this can be tough to compare, but they do give us insight into how different high-level strategies play out.
I want to give a few quick comments in favor of Math first without having reviewed Jastrow's save, which I likely won't be able to do until tomorrow.
1. Monarchy first is highly dependent on getting Alphabet in trade from Mansa. If that doesn't happen, Currency will be delayed for some time as we self-tech Alpha or Math ourselves.
2. Math first lets us get IW earlier in trade as we can do a Math <-> IW trade with Mansa. IW could be critial in this game due to all of the jungle. Finding iron would be a bonus too. Monarchy first almost forces us to use it to get Alphabet from Mansa (assumes we're semi-isolated with Mansa only, which is what we have to assume at this point). Having IW also let's us settle our cities where they make the most sense rather than being nearly forced to settle on top of fjungled ood resources like Dhoom did.
3. If there is another AI within quick contact, we can almost surely get Monarchy in trade from them quite early as the AI research it soonish and they'll trade it easily. The same cannot be said for Math; it could be some time before we're able to get it.
4. There is a huge risk that Mansa will research Monarchy before Alphabet. If that happens, we'll have researched a tech with zero trade value with Mansa. The odds of Mansa researching Math before we can use it to get IW from him are near 0%. With Monarchy being quite high on Mansa's tech preference, there is a decent chance (25%?) we could be screwed...
5. Even if we're not chopping 100 forests to chop out Dhoom's wooden wonder, getting +10 "free" hammers per chop is a nice bonus.
So, without having seen Jastrow's save, if we are in a similar position in both saves, I think Math first is the less risky option. Even if Math first is just a bit behind, I think it's worth it to "play it safe..." especially with our first tech choice, which is critical in this game.
Note: I leave myself the option of changing my mind, but I'm currently leaning toward Math...
At this point, I think we need to just make a decision and move forward. Can everyone cast their votes again?
I agree that longer-term tests like this can be tough to compare, but they do give us insight into how different high-level strategies play out.I want to give a few quick comments in favor of Math first without having reviewed Jastrow's save, which I likely won't be able to do until tomorrow.
1. Monarchy first is highly dependent on getting Alphabet in trade from Mansa. If that doesn't happen, Currency will be delayed for some time as we self-tech Alpha or Math ourselves.
2. Math first lets us get IW earlier in trade as we can do a Math <-> IW trade with Mansa. IW could be critial in this game due to all of the jungle. Finding iron would be a bonus too. Monarchy first almost forces us to use it to get Alphabet from Mansa (assumes we're semi-isolated with Mansa only, which is what we have to assume at this point). Having IW also let's us settle our cities where they make the most sense rather than being nearly forced to settle on top of fjungled ood resources like Dhoom did.
3. If there is another AI within quick contact, we can almost surely get Monarchy in trade from them quite early as the AI research it soonish and they'll trade it easily. The same cannot be said for Math; it could be some time before we're able to get it.
4. There is a huge risk that Mansa will research Monarchy before Alphabet. If that happens, we'll have researched a tech with zero trade value with Mansa. The odds of Mansa researching Math before we can use it to get IW from him are near 0%. With Monarchy being quite high on Mansa's tech preference, there is a decent chance (25%?) we could be screwed...
5. Even if we're not chopping 100 forests to chop out Dhoom's wooden wonder, getting +10 "free" hammers per chop is a nice bonus.
So, without having seen Jastrow's save, if we are in a similar position in both saves, I think Math first is the less risky option. Even if Math first is just a bit behind, I think it's worth it to "play it safe..." especially with our first tech choice, which is critical in this game.
Note: I leave myself the option of changing my mind, but I'm currently leaning toward Math...
At this point, I think we need to just make a decision and move forward. Can everyone cast their votes again?
Mitchum
Deity
Just in case it wasn't clear, right? 
My vote is still for Math.
This is really starting to drag on, btw. At this rate, I'm not sure we'll actually get to 8 cities in the real game.
This is really starting to drag on, btw. At this rate, I'm not sure we'll actually get to 8 cities in the real game.
I was wrong about having "pockets" of time available this weekend - I'm having a great time catching up with family, but I'm still around 60 hours from having the time to review the options including the latest test games properly.
I was Math before these so that will remain my vote.
I was Math before these so that will remain my vote.
Dhoomstriker
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It seems to me that we still have yet to fill in what we're doing with our Scout and Archer.
Given the idea of building an early WARRIOR instead of an Archer that chopster had, we essentially have these two primary options:
Scenario D]
i. Scout does whatever it wants--probably heading north-east, exploring around the Ivory area, then, if is still alive, looping back to the starting area then the peninsula
ii. We delay City 2 by one turn so that we can get our Warrior to help the Archer with protecting our Worker and Settler
iii. The Archer can either guard the G Riv Pig until it needs to protect the Worker or it can explore for less than 2 turns in every direction
Scenario B]
i. The Scout is needed to help protect the Worker and Settler, so it will probably explore west and then south. If it dies along the way, we will "roll over" to Scenario D], i.e. we'll delay City 2 by 1 turn
ii. We get City 2 up-and-running one turn faster
iii. The Archer can either guard the G Riv Pig until it needs to protect the Worker or it can explore for less than 2 turns in every direction
What I'm going to recommend is the following:
a) Guard the G Riv Pig with the Archer as much as possible; since we'll probably improve the G Cow then Chop then improve the G Riv Pig, we'll later use the Warrior to guard the G Riv Pig (otherwise there'll be a ton of chances for Jungle growth there) and then the Archer can head west/south-west/north-west/whatever to explore... covering the same squares that it would have covered earlier and then being able to be free to explore further, since we have the earlier Warrior to keep an eye on City 2
b) Follow Scenario D], so that the Scout is free to get us info about the area that we care more about... in particular around the Ivory and the area to the east of our capital that is one big "unknown" in our minds right now. Exploring less than 2 squares in every diagonal direction with the Archer in the west is unlikely to reveal a new City location, but the Scout has the potential to reveal multiple City locations
That makes it easy to play the turnset, too... camp the Archer on the G Riv Pig until Turn 17, at which point he heads eastward to "collect" the Worker... while the Scout just does his best to explore the area to the north-east, east, then back toward the settle-in-place area and finally the peninsula. The Scout will heal whenever he needs to heal and will do his very best to end each turn in a Jungle or Forest. If the Scout spots a Barb Animal that he has the chance to run away from, the Scout will likely run away from that Barb Animal, but the Active Player can consult with the team on where best to send the Scout if a Barb Animal is visible.
I don't think that we will be able to count on getting both Iron Working + Alphabet from Mansa... out of the possible tech paths that he can pick, there are countless paths and we would be relying on him picking one very particular path. So, let's go ahead with Math but let's NOT play with the assumption that we'll get Iron Working anytime soon. As it was, one important take-away from Jastrow's game is that he said we wouldn't get Iron working until Turn 70, and that's in the best case of the same AI learning both Iron Working and Alphabet without going for Math or for Mansa's top favourite tech choice of Currency. So, we're going to have to be very careful about settling in Jungle-heavy areas, which it seems that half of Jastrow's Cities were settled in, and probably not do much of that in the real game except if we see doing so as an investment in land area by blocking off land from Mansa settling it.
It sounds like chopster is busy. Mitchum has been busy. With the others after Mitchum either busy or in an unknown status, I guess that I'm next in the turnset list. So, I'll start writing a formal PPP shortly, which is mostly just a rehash of what I just wrote and filling-in a couple of more detials in the PPP_updated spreadsheet.
Given the idea of building an early WARRIOR instead of an Archer that chopster had, we essentially have these two primary options:
Scenario D]
i. Scout does whatever it wants--probably heading north-east, exploring around the Ivory area, then, if is still alive, looping back to the starting area then the peninsula
ii. We delay City 2 by one turn so that we can get our Warrior to help the Archer with protecting our Worker and Settler
iii. The Archer can either guard the G Riv Pig until it needs to protect the Worker or it can explore for less than 2 turns in every direction
Scenario B]
i. The Scout is needed to help protect the Worker and Settler, so it will probably explore west and then south. If it dies along the way, we will "roll over" to Scenario D], i.e. we'll delay City 2 by 1 turn
ii. We get City 2 up-and-running one turn faster
iii. The Archer can either guard the G Riv Pig until it needs to protect the Worker or it can explore for less than 2 turns in every direction
What I'm going to recommend is the following:
a) Guard the G Riv Pig with the Archer as much as possible; since we'll probably improve the G Cow then Chop then improve the G Riv Pig, we'll later use the Warrior to guard the G Riv Pig (otherwise there'll be a ton of chances for Jungle growth there) and then the Archer can head west/south-west/north-west/whatever to explore... covering the same squares that it would have covered earlier and then being able to be free to explore further, since we have the earlier Warrior to keep an eye on City 2
b) Follow Scenario D], so that the Scout is free to get us info about the area that we care more about... in particular around the Ivory and the area to the east of our capital that is one big "unknown" in our minds right now. Exploring less than 2 squares in every diagonal direction with the Archer in the west is unlikely to reveal a new City location, but the Scout has the potential to reveal multiple City locations
That makes it easy to play the turnset, too... camp the Archer on the G Riv Pig until Turn 17, at which point he heads eastward to "collect" the Worker... while the Scout just does his best to explore the area to the north-east, east, then back toward the settle-in-place area and finally the peninsula. The Scout will heal whenever he needs to heal and will do his very best to end each turn in a Jungle or Forest. If the Scout spots a Barb Animal that he has the chance to run away from, the Scout will likely run away from that Barb Animal, but the Active Player can consult with the team on where best to send the Scout if a Barb Animal is visible.
I don't think that we will be able to count on getting both Iron Working + Alphabet from Mansa... out of the possible tech paths that he can pick, there are countless paths and we would be relying on him picking one very particular path. So, let's go ahead with Math but let's NOT play with the assumption that we'll get Iron Working anytime soon. As it was, one important take-away from Jastrow's game is that he said we wouldn't get Iron working until Turn 70, and that's in the best case of the same AI learning both Iron Working and Alphabet without going for Math or for Mansa's top favourite tech choice of Currency. So, we're going to have to be very careful about settling in Jungle-heavy areas, which it seems that half of Jastrow's Cities were settled in, and probably not do much of that in the real game except if we see doing so as an investment in land area by blocking off land from Mansa settling it.
It sounds like chopster is busy. Mitchum has been busy. With the others after Mitchum either busy or in an unknown status, I guess that I'm next in the turnset list. So, I'll start writing a formal PPP shortly, which is mostly just a rehash of what I just wrote and filling-in a couple of more detials in the PPP_updated spreadsheet.
Dhoomstriker
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@Jastrow: Do you recall if you had to run any additional turns at a 0% Science Rate while researching Math? I ask because if we had to, we might as well do so now (not as an attempt to alter the decision of which tech to pick!) for two reasons:
i. If we later decide to build an early Library (Jastrow's capital Library has 4 Culture, so he must have built it relatively early), it's better to use the Commerce on Flasks after we own the Library than before it
ii. If Mansa or another neighbour that we meet early on does go for early Math, we could get some free Flasks on Math later
i. If we later decide to build an early Library (Jastrow's capital Library has 4 Culture, so he must have built it relatively early), it's better to use the Commerce on Flasks after we own the Library than before it
ii. If Mansa or another neighbour that we meet early on does go for early Math, we could get some free Flasks on Math later
Dhoomstriker
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PPP
See the attached file.
See the attached file.
1. I am almost certain had enough money for Math already in the bank... I am against delaying it any because, at least in my test, it game exactly when I was ready to start a spree of significant choping.
2. I did build a pretty early library. I dont remember the exact date/build order (I was playing on auto pilot in that test).
3. Unless I am missing something, there is an inefficiency in strategy B (which I did change on the fly in my test, since I could see no reason for it.):
Turn 16: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 17: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 18: PP, rice, GHB, Unhappy-- Settler
Turn 19: PP,Bmine --Whip settler
Is there are a reason not to go (as I did in my test):
Turn 16: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 17: PP,rice,GHB -- Settler
Turn 18: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 19: PP,Bmine --Whip settler
It seams to me that it saves feeding the unhappy guy for a turn, so should come out a net of two food better, with no down-side. Am I missing something.
2. I did build a pretty early library. I dont remember the exact date/build order (I was playing on auto pilot in that test).
3. Unless I am missing something, there is an inefficiency in strategy B (which I did change on the fly in my test, since I could see no reason for it.):
Turn 16: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 17: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 18: PP, rice, GHB, Unhappy-- Settler
Turn 19: PP,Bmine --Whip settler
Is there are a reason not to go (as I did in my test):
Turn 16: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 17: PP,rice,GHB -- Settler
Turn 18: PP,rice,GHB -- Warrior
Turn 19: PP,Bmine --Whip settler
It seams to me that it saves feeding the unhappy guy for a turn, so should come out a net of two food better, with no down-side. Am I missing something.
Dhoomstriker
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into the numbers tomorrow before playing.
What you're saying does sound like it might be better, but in order to pull off Scenario B], we'd have to give up most of our exploration with the Scout. I don't think that the team is behind doing so and with Scenario D], we're delaying growth to Size 4 to get the Warrior completed ahead of the Settler, since we need SOME sort of unit to protect the Settler, and if it won't be the Scout, then it will have to be a Warrior that is completed in time to walk in advance of the Scout.
What you're saying does sound like it might be better, but in order to pull off Scenario B], we'd have to give up most of our exploration with the Scout. I don't think that the team is behind doing so and with Scenario D], we're delaying growth to Size 4 to get the Warrior completed ahead of the Settler, since we need SOME sort of unit to protect the Settler, and if it won't be the Scout, then it will have to be a Warrior that is completed in time to walk in advance of the Scout.
Dhoomstriker
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There appears to be no difference.
When building a Settler or a Worker, all Food that would normally be eaten by Happy or Healthy people does NOT get subtracted. I think that the game was designed in this way because if you mess up and over-grow your Cities, you are not penalized for trying to correct the situation by expanding to new Cities--in fact, the game thus encourages you to expand to new Cities.
So, building a Settler on Turn 17 at Size 3, as per your suggestion gives us:
City Centre 2 Food + 1 Hammer
G Pig Pasture 6 Food
GH Banana Mine 2 Food + 3 Hammers
dry G Rice 3 Food
3 Happy people -6 Food
0 Unhealthy people -0 Food
( ( 2 + 6 + 2 + 3) - 6 ) + ( ( 1 + 3 ) * 1.5 )
= 13 - 6 + 4 * 1.5
= 7 + 6
= 13 final Hammers
If, as per the first scenario, you build a Settler on Turn 18 at Size 4, as per Scenario B], it would give us identical numbers:
City Centre 2 Food + 1 Hammer
G Pig Pasture 6 Food
GH Banana Mine 2 Food + 3 Hammers
dry G Rice 3 Food
3 Happy people -6 Food
1 Unhappy person while building a Settler or a Worker -0 Food
1 Unhealthy person while building a Settler or a Worker -0 Food
There will be no change to the numbers due to the extra citizen and we'll still make 13 final Hammers.
It would only be if we built a non-Settler or non-Worker build item at Size 4 where it would matter.
However, as I said, we'll be following Scenario D], so that the Scout can explore eastward (and hopefully not die right away).
Dhoomstriker
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Seeing as how no one even bothered to comment on the Demographics screenshots that chopster took earlier, I won't be taking any such screenshots myself, but I'll still poke around the informational screens (F4, F5, F8, F9) and report anything interesting that I notice.
As per Jastrow's feedback, we'll set our Science Rate to 100% on Math right away.
Having 3 out of our 4 active players having downloaded the PPP and not seeing any further feedback, plus due to the general desire to get the game moving...
I'll be playing shortly.
As per Jastrow's feedback, we'll set our Science Rate to 100% on Math right away.
Having 3 out of our 4 active players having downloaded the PPP and not seeing any further feedback, plus due to the general desire to get the game moving...
I'll be playing shortly.
Dhoomstriker
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And we're off to the races.
We have spotted a Plains Horse and a G Pig Jungle.
We have spotted a Plains Horse and a G Pig Jungle.
Spoiler :
Dhoomstriker
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As of the inherited turn, Turn 8, 1680 BC, it seems that Mansa has the largest City in the world with 3 population points, with the next-largest being at Size 2.
Perhaps he is coastal and is building Work Boats or perhaps he is just busy on a Skirmisher while working Flood Plains squares or something like that.
Turn 9, 1640 BC
We switch to working the GH Banana square and start Chopping the 1W Forest
We revealed a G Rice Jungle square. It also looks like we've found the NORTHERN edge of the map. I'm not quite certain, but it looks that way.
It also looks like there's a Lake in the way of our Scout going SE + NE, so I think that we'll instead have to goE + NE + SE.
Actually, it should be better to go: SE G Jungle -> E G For (1S of the eastern Lake) -> 1NE, so we'll do that instead.
Change in the F8 -> VICTORIES screen:
T8:
Us = 5.88% of World Population
Mansa = 17.00% of World Population
T9:
Us = 11.11% of World Population
Mansa = 16.00% of World Population
(It really does look like the AIs' stats get rounded, good call, bbp.)
We made it onto the Top 5 CITIES list at the bottom, with City Sizes listed as 3 (Timbuktu, Mansa's capital), 2, 2, 2, and 2 (Aachen, our capital).
"Rival best" values went up, so at least a couple of AIs are improving squares...
one went from 21 GNP to 22 GNP, while another value went from 3 Hammers to 5 Hammers, and a further value went from 11 Food to 14 Food. The Soldiers value went up from 43000 to 47000. The best Approval rating went up from 83% to 85%.
A "Rival worst" value also went up, seeing a rise from 18 GNP to 20 GNP.
At 2 Hammers per turn, we are (tied for?) second place in the world. We would be 7th place at 1 Hammer per turn.
At 10 Food per turn, we are 3rd place in the world. We would still be at 3rd place at 11 Food per turn.
Perhaps he is coastal and is building Work Boats or perhaps he is just busy on a Skirmisher while working Flood Plains squares or something like that.
Turn 9, 1640 BC
We switch to working the GH Banana square and start Chopping the 1W Forest
We revealed a G Rice Jungle square. It also looks like we've found the NORTHERN edge of the map. I'm not quite certain, but it looks that way.
Spoiler :
It also looks like there's a Lake in the way of our Scout going SE + NE, so I think that we'll instead have to go
Actually, it should be better to go: SE G Jungle -> E G For (1S of the eastern Lake) -> 1NE, so we'll do that instead.
Change in the F8 -> VICTORIES screen:
T8:
Us = 5.88% of World Population
Mansa = 17.00% of World Population
T9:
Us = 11.11% of World Population
Mansa = 16.00% of World Population
(It really does look like the AIs' stats get rounded, good call, bbp.)
We made it onto the Top 5 CITIES list at the bottom, with City Sizes listed as 3 (Timbuktu, Mansa's capital), 2, 2, 2, and 2 (Aachen, our capital).
"Rival best" values went up, so at least a couple of AIs are improving squares...
one went from 21 GNP to 22 GNP, while another value went from 3 Hammers to 5 Hammers, and a further value went from 11 Food to 14 Food. The Soldiers value went up from 43000 to 47000. The best Approval rating went up from 83% to 85%.
A "Rival worst" value also went up, seeing a rise from 18 GNP to 20 GNP.
At 2 Hammers per turn, we are (tied for?) second place in the world. We would be 7th place at 1 Hammer per turn.
At 10 Food per turn, we are 3rd place in the world. We would still be at 3rd place at 11 Food per turn.
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