Green from me
SGOTM 17 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Here are a couple of attempts trying pigs/phants first.
The pigs first has had 2 chops, 1 into Granary, 1 into settler.
The phants first has 1 chop, into the WB for the GP farm.
The main complication is Washington taking the pigs in my phants first run, but this is a real risk we face in the real game.
Out of the 2, I believe the pigs first is better, as it is a more rounded city, with better food and hammer potential. The phants city makes an excellent city 2, as it has enough hammers to build a culture building to pop its borders.
Obviously, if we find some food with the phants, this quick test becomes null & void.
The pigs first has had 2 chops, 1 into Granary, 1 into settler.
The phants first has 1 chop, into the WB for the GP farm.
The main complication is Washington taking the pigs in my phants first run, but this is a real risk we face in the real game.
Out of the 2, I believe the pigs first is better, as it is a more rounded city, with better food and hammer potential. The phants city makes an excellent city 2, as it has enough hammers to build a culture building to pop its borders.
Obviously, if we find some food with the phants, this quick test becomes null & void.
Trystero
Deity
Green from me!
The problem with 1SE is that we lose 3 tiles off the edge of the map. Maybe that's not so bad, but still, I would rather put the GP farm where the settler is now.
The problem with 1SE is that we lose 3 tiles off the edge of the map. Maybe that's not so bad, but still, I would rather put the GP farm where the settler is now.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
We are the smallest civilization (surprise 
)
If we move the city site 1W, we lose a forest but gain a grass hill banana and lots of hills for future production. There's only a jungle gems up north, not enough to sway things in favor of the oliphant start, in my opinion.
Here's the turn 1960 BC demographics, for Revent (and others) to peruse.
I think we're at the point that we need a better test map, more testing, and a full turnset proposal, rather than mini turnsets. Thoughts?
Edit - save is uploaded for those who want to fog gaze. I'm about to be away from computer for most of the evening.
)Spoiler :
If we move the city site 1W, we lose a forest but gain a grass hill banana and lots of hills for future production. There's only a jungle gems up north, not enough to sway things in favor of the oliphant start, in my opinion.
Spoiler :
Here's the turn 1960 BC demographics, for Revent (and others) to peruse.
Spoiler :
I think we're at the point that we need a better test map, more testing, and a full turnset proposal, rather than mini turnsets. Thoughts?
Edit - save is uploaded for those who want to fog gaze. I'm about to be away from computer for most of the evening.
Agreed, I will update the test save again, and we can then have full turnsets.
I am happy with 1W of the original location, we can also mine the hill bananas until Calendar is in. It still gets fresh water and is coastal, which are all good IMO.
I am happy with 1W of the original location, we can also mine the hill bananas until Calendar is in. It still gets fresh water and is coastal, which are all good IMO.
Trystero
Deity
I'm not sure 1W so much better that we should lose another turn moving the settler.
Edit: We'd gain (at least) 2 hills, so maybe.
Edit: We'd gain (at least) 2 hills, so maybe.
After some fog-gazing and reflection, here are the differences:
Relative to original settler position:
3W1S: 2 hills, 1 pig, 4 forests, 1 jungle, 1 banana (on grass), 5 coastal
4W1S: 3 hills, 1 pig, 3 forests, 2 jungle, 1 banana (on hill), 4 coastal & 2 fogged tiles + 1 turn later.
The banana on grass can be farmed, thus giving a 4 food tile. Also, I very much doubt we will work 3 GH mines, 2 will be enough. The capital will be our cottage centre.
The grass banana tile can also be shared with two future cities. Also, just in terms of how our early cities fit together and can share food resources, I think I favour 3W1S.
I will base my testing on that.
Latest updates included into map.
Relative to original settler position:
3W1S: 2 hills, 1 pig, 4 forests, 1 jungle, 1 banana (on grass), 5 coastal
4W1S: 3 hills, 1 pig, 3 forests, 2 jungle, 1 banana (on hill), 4 coastal & 2 fogged tiles + 1 turn later.
The banana on grass can be farmed, thus giving a 4 food tile. Also, I very much doubt we will work 3 GH mines, 2 will be enough. The capital will be our cottage centre.
The grass banana tile can also be shared with two future cities. Also, just in terms of how our early cities fit together and can share food resources, I think I favour 3W1S.
I will base my testing on that.
Latest updates included into map.
Trystero
Deity
I'm good, I have write access.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Me too. 3W 1S is fine.
I have write access to the spreadsheet.
I have write access to the spreadsheet.
Trystero
Deity
OK - great.
I am liking 3W1S, as well. I tried a quick, non-scientific, run through with neil's save. With the chop and a whip I was able to get a granary in Aachen on t10.
I am liking 3W1S, as well. I tried a quick, non-scientific, run through with neil's save. With the chop and a whip I was able to get a granary in Aachen on t10.
Great, I didn't even try whipping.... its hard to get my head around the classical start.
SteelHorse
Deity
3W1S looks to best the available. It leaves room for a 4 phant city that shares banana and clam city that has two banana (one shared). Also would be nice if we find some food up near the gems for a second city. Will do some testing tomorrow on different build options.
Are we thinking early cap whips/chops for settlers/workers? Or getting cottages up?
Are we thinking early cap whips/chops for settlers/workers? Or getting cottages up?
I think everything is on the table at this stage.
In my initial testing I have chopped and whipped granary, it works well with a fogbusting warrior to get to pop 3 on t16, to start the settler t17.
I also put 1 chop into the first settler, so it is out t23.
I will hopefully have time to try a few variants tonight.
In my initial testing I have chopped and whipped granary, it works well with a fogbusting warrior to get to pop 3 on t16, to start the settler t17.
I also put 1 chop into the first settler, so it is out t23.
I will hopefully have time to try a few variants tonight.
SteelHorse
Deity
Not that I expect to be updating the spreadsheet, but what info do you need to allow write? I am guessing a google id?
SteelHorse
Deity
Another option is settler first, two chops out on t10. Settled second city either for phants or gems if food near gems. phant site will have good early production and can get a worker in 12.
EDIT: By t23 2 cities (sizes 4 & 1), 2 workers and can 2 pop whip granary in Cap.
Attachments
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I am intrigued by SteelHorse's suggestion. How does it impact the speed of founding city 3? I was very impressed by how much PD's early granary helped them in SGOTM16.
SteelHorse
Deity
Third city on t31. 2 pop whip into settler on t24 + 1 chop for settler on t30.
Attachments
SteelHorse
Deity
Another option for research is Monarchy (v Math) first for HR to grow cap and get cottages on-line quicker with higher cap population.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Nice. Anyone care to see how that compares to granary first?
Similar threads
