SGOTM 19 - The Shawshank Redemption

WastinTime said:
I'm not sure that ~13 worker turns into roads is a good idea when only ~2 axes will even use those roads. The rest will be in place early.
Click to expand...

WastinTime said:
My current suggestion is to chop immediately (none finish before math of course) into a granary. I'm also leaning towards chopping 2 and not roading right away.

We don't need those roads to connect to Stone or to move workers around much. The 2 workers we have work the home front and/or move on to goldcity. Captured workers stay with Asoka's cities.
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How many roads we build merits discussion, I think. Two roads gain 1 turn from LM, the rest of the roads only gain 1 more turn. One road gains 1 turn from Tr, 3 roads, gain another turn and the rest gain another. It would seem that optimal would be 2 or 3 roads. Unfortunately the third road is desert.

A worker steal doesn't help much, if at all, in getting our units there faster.

The complete road might be crucial if Asoka manages to stack up his city. It also lowers supply costs, especially if the war bogs down. So that's a risk factor. A barb invasion is another risk factor that could escalate out of hand.

Putting two workers into City #3 mitigates any cost factor because it's growing our economy that much faster. I just wonder how much better, if any, your two -worker plan for City #3 is than my proposal. You definitely get the granary out faster, so that's a plus.
 
I have been eating a delayed supper (delayed due to putting out the updated PPP) and trying to respond to questions... yes, I plan to re-run through the micro with the suggested changes to make sure that it works and post the updated results.
 
With our Axes heading down to worker steal. It really is the ideal time to get that road done from a barb-protection point of view. When will we ever have 2 axes to spare to guard them? Weren't we supposed to explore the ice after this war?

I'd be happy either with roads or focusing on #3. It's Dhoom's TS, so I approve the direction he is heading. Shutting off barbs T47 is very appealing.
 
Let's hope that our luck in the real game holds out better than in the test game...
Spoiler :
4419352815.jpg



Note that the extra spawn-busting didn't stop this Axeman from beelining us... he already existed. Oh well.
 
I think if you play to T41, move the Axes, but don't move the workers.

W1 could be re-tasked at this point to get 2 chops in #3. city grows ~T52 and whips a workboat. Fishnets on T55.
 
Revised PPP

Stopping Points
I will play up to as far as Turn 41 before stopping to see if we should alter our Worker micro... whether we can steal a Worker or not may affect our decision.


Reasons to stop play before then could be for all sorts of reasons...
Diplo-related
Tech-trading related
Gold-trading related (in case someone picks up Currency via Mathematics)
Barb-related
Asoka settles a 3rd City


Picture
Spoiler :
c49c979a64.jpg



T37
Open Borders with every AI
1: 2-pop-whip Axe
1: 3 = Pig + 2 Sci (growth in 1)
1: Axe
2: 1-pop-whip Axe
2: 1 = Corn
3: 1 = G Sugar
3: Keep building the Granary for now
Axe1: Move 1SW to P (2N of Clam)

T38
W1: Move to the P For at Trumpster-1NW
W2: Move to the P For at Trumpster-1NW
1: 4 = Pig + Copper + 2 Sci (Axe in 1 turn)
1: Axe -> Axe
2: 2 = Corn + FP (growth in 2)
2: Axe -> Axe
Axe1: Move 1SW to G For (1NW of Clam)
Axe2: Move 1W G For
Axe3: Move SW P Road, NW G For Road (Amsterdam-1SE)

T39
W1: Road the G For at Trumpster-1NW
W2: Move 1SW G and pRoad and STOP
1: 4 = Pig + Corn + 2 Sci
1: Axe -> Monument!!!
2: 1-pop-whip Axe
2: 1 = Copper (growth in 1)
Axe1: Move 1SW to G Jungle (1NE of G Corn)
Axe2: Move 1SW Marble
Axe3: Move 1WN Amsterdam, 1N G For (Amsterdam-1N)
Axe4: Move 1W G For

T40
Code of Laws -> Math (to have Civil Service auto-selected after Lightbulbing)
Lightbulb Math
Research Civil Service
W2: Move 1SW to the Des (1N of the Marble) and pRoad and STOP
1: 4 = Pig + Corn + FP + Marble (4 Hammers into an Axe)
1: Switch to building an Axe
2: 2 = G Riv Sugar + Copper (Axe in 2 turns)
2: Axe -> Axe
Axe1: Move 1SW G Corn
Axe2: Move 1SW G For (1SW of Marble)
Axe3: Move 1NW G For (NE + N of the Clam)
Axe4: Move 1SW Marble
Axe5: Move to the southern rally point

T41
W1: Move 1SW to the G (Trumpster-2W) and finish the Road
W2: Move 1SW to the GH (SW + W of the Marble)
1: 2-pop-whip Axe
1: 3 = Pig + Corn + Marble
2: FP + Copper (Axe in 1)
Axe2: Move 1W GH (NE + E of Rice)
Axe3: Move 1W P (2N of the Clam)
Axe4: Move 1SW G For (1SW of Marble)

T42
W1: Move 1SW Des (1W of the Marble) and Road
W2: Road the GH (SW + W of the Marble)
1: 3 = Pig + Corn + Marble (Axe in 1)
1: Axe -> Axe
2: 2 = FP + Copper
2: Axe -> CHOICE: Monument or a 9th Axe
Axe2: Move 1W Des (1NE of Rice)
Axe3: DEAD (although, if he is not dead, move him 1SW G For (1NW of the Clam))
Axe4: Move 1W GH (NE + E of Rice)
Axe6: Move to southern rally point
Axe7: Move to southern rally point

T43
W1: Have him manually complete the Des Road (1W of the Marble)
1: 4 = Pig + Corn + FP + 1 Sci (growth in 1, 3 Hammers going into the Axe)
1: Axe -> Axe
2: 2 = Copper + Silk
2: If we built a 9th Axe, we can whip it now
3: Monument!!!!!!!!
Axe8: Move to southern rally point

T44
W1: Move SW GH, 1W Des and Road
W2: Move 1W Des and Road
1: 2-pop-whip the Axe
1: 3 = Pig + Corn + Marble
3: 1-pop-whip the Monument
3: 1 = G Sugar
Stack of 3 Axes: Move to the Des (1NE of the Rice)
Axe8: Move to the GH (SW + W of the Marble)

T45
W1: Finish off the Des Road, while W2 is free to head back north-east
W2: Move to the G Road at Trumpster-2W and pCot
1: 3 = Pig + Corn + Marble
1: Axe -> Monument
2: 2 = Copper + FP (Monument in 3 turns)
3: Build the Granary again
Axes 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8: Wait for Worker 2 to finish the Des Road and then move in if we'll be going for an 8-Axe attack
Axe9: If we don't need him in the attack and haven't whipped a 10th Axe out of LM, send him to LM to act as a Military Police unit, otherwise send him to the southern rally point

T46
W1: Move to the G Road at Trumpster-2W and pCot
W2: Move to the G For Road at Amsterdam-1SE and Chop?
1: 4 = Pig + FP + Marble + Silk (growth in 3 turns when Unhappiness wears off)
1: Axe -> Barracks???
2: 3 = Corn + Copper + G Riv Sugar


Each Turn
1. Check if Asoka threatens with something other than Archers.
2. Check if Asoka has completed Iron Working* or Alpha and traded for Iron Working*.
3. Carefully follow Asoka's power graph and report the changes... someone else can figure out what units he may have built.
4. Carefully follow Constantinople's sabotage production stats and report them... someone else can guess as to what he might be building (unit/bldg or settler/worker) and what he completes.
5. Mouse over all Asoka's squares to see if a road is half-completed, a forest gets chopped, or any other change. Doing so can help to monitor his production and follow his workers. Wow... how tedious... you guys owe me for this one. ;)
6. F9 Demo screen: monitor the Land Area stat to see if Thessalonica expanded. Currently the Rival Best is 43000 (43 tiles). Asoka has 39000 (39 tiles) and will expand to 46+ with the border expansion. Doing so just aids in knowing when his workers might show up at the rice.
7. Check for changes on the F4 GLANCE screen, in particular, any AIs meeting each other
8. Check for the F4 TECHS screen for any AI being willing to trade techs (learned Alphabet) or Gold (learned Currency)
9. Keep tabs on Asoka's Cities' population points, to track when he whips his Cities.
10. Make a manual save.
11. Turn on Show Friendly Moves and Show Enemy Moves and press Print Screen a whole bunch at the end of a turn.


Scout and Warrior
Since we'll be Opening Borders, I suppose that we can explore inside of AIs' Cultural Borders. The AIs who are most likely to build Wonders are Kublai and Huayna, so if we can reveal their capitals, great... for now, I think that we can at least explore Kublai's area and Alex's area.

Try to explore to the west edge of the map in search of a Railroad.


Playing Time
Whenever I get approval... or, likely roughly 20 hours from the timestamp on this message if that doesn't happen.
 
Dhoomstriker said:
given that he apparently has 3 Archers
Click to expand...
I'm out of here for a few days. Assuming Asoka started with 2 archers, he now has three. Someone better know how to read his power graph so Dhoom can play from actualities rather than apparencies.

I would have axe1 beeline the corn to peek inside Constantinople and I would keep in mind the possibility of going down on it even sooner with fewer units, if the opportunity presents itself. That includes being prepared, with foresight, to move the waiting units into closer position from the rally point.

I'll abstain from any voting until further notice.
 
I don't like whipping LM T37 (I missed that earlier) I thought we'd grow to size 3 first. It that early whip really necessary?
 
LowtherCastle said:
I'll abstain from any voting until further notice.
Click to expand...
So, does that mean I have your approval (or at least complete lack of disapproval) to play forward?


@WT: I'll look into the whipping micro at LM to see.
 
What is Axe4 doing? spawnbusting? I think LC's suggestion, and I agree, is to have these units move forward in case we want to rush him with say 6 units against 1 defender.
 
I thought you wanted to axes together for the worker steal, but you don't finish the road in time on T39. I'm not sure I see the point of moving 2 workers on that forest if you're not going to finish the road for the axe.
 
Without the Workers pushing in when they do, the soonest that we can send in 8 Axes is Turn 48. I haven't compared what would happen if we went in with less Axes, but I feel very strongly against going in with less than 8 Axes. It is not worth the risk. 3 defenders can stonewall 6 attackers quite easily and then we go from being 2 to 3 turns ahead of other teams to being 10+ turns behind them.


The key turn is when we have more than 1 Axeman within a 2-square radius of Constantinople. Before then, any Archer that he builds won't necessarily defend the City and he won't put a high priority on stuffing defenders into there, either self-built ones or wandering ones. As soon as we put 2 or more units with a 2-square radius of Constantinople, we'd better be prepared to either back away or else push in for an attack ASAP, otherwise we'll see +1 Archer per turn appearing for every turn that we delay... +1 Archer per turn that wouldn't have needed to have been there if we'd kept our units outside of the 2-square radius for longer.
 
Hold on, I think I just got us 8 axes capturing on T47 with NO road on the desert tile. That frees up a worker to chop I think.
 
I don't understand the 1whip in LM either - I thought the current slowbuild plus a later 2whip got us the units we need (along with a pair of 2pops in Trumpster).

Aside from that, I am happy. It is the speed of the rush that matters for me.
edit: Xpost
 
To get the T47, 8 axes, we need 2 1whips in LM.

Here is one way you get 8 axes moving on T42. These won't need a road on the last desert

Trumpster
37, axe, whip 2
38, axe, Pig, copper
39, 4 hammers in axe (pig, marble)
40 axe, whip 2
41 axe

(Stop. See post 1420 for better LM)
LM:
37: axe
38: axe, whip 1
39: axe (34 hammers)
40: Axe, whip 1
41: Axe
 
To get the T47, 8 axes

Here is how to get 8 axes moving on T42. These won't need a road on the last desert

...and only 1 whip in LM

Trumpster
(same)

LM:
37: axe
38: axe, corn, FP, GFor
39: axe, corn, FP, Sugar
40: Axe, whip 2
41: Axe
 
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