SGOTM 19 - The Shawshank Redemption

ZPV · Apr 24, 2014

Good job ~~description~~ WastinTime!
I'll take a big screenshot this evening and start drawing lines on it, to prepare for the last turnset.
I can do most of the work for that now, so I don't mind if this one has to push back a couple of days.

EDIT: Stupid autocorrect. :mad:

Mitchum · Apr 24, 2014

Nice work, WT.

WastinTime said:
I'll finish my report tomorrow. I just want to upload today.

I finished T139 and pressed end turn. I'm cleaning up the save.

Here's an important tidbit:
T140
The votes til next election are counting down, so there are 3 more votes this turn and T141 and T142 where, if Tao spreads to Asoka, we lose. Watch that carefully.
There are no missionaries about.

I thought HC was in Free Religion. If so, can he really win an AP victory?

WastinTime · Apr 24, 2014

Mitchum said:
Nice work, WT.

I thought HC was in Free Religion. If so, can he really win an AP victory?

Yes, he can win, but he cannot force DoP. (which we can defy if we had to). As we learned, had we bribed him into war with KK, and not been able to get peace, we were screwed and could not defy the forced peace. And if we'd given him all that tech, who knows what nightmare tech he'd be researching now instead of wasting time on Const like he is right now.

AP loss is a real concern...hopefully only for 3 turns. Then the scary T149 scenario no longer exists. There would be another resident election (and we will probably win, but we don't really care.) I've killed 2 of Asoka's archers with no losses but he added another, so there are still 3 and odds are not super great for our muskets. We do out number archers, but barely, we should attack them this turn to thin numbers.

WastinTime · Apr 24, 2014

In case you missed the updates to the turnset report here's a copy

Spoiler :

Mitchum · Apr 24, 2014

Do we still plan to revolt to Slavery soonish or is Caste System better?

Dhoom, what is your plan for a PPP and when would you like to play?

Dhoomstriker · Apr 24, 2014

My "pre-PPP" is probably going to mostly consist of asking questions to WT (others are free to respond) as I think of said questions.

The PPP should then write itself if I've asked enough of the right questions.

For example... I see some Workers at Konya that are supposed to build a Farm... but, then what? Do I complete the Road there since it may provide faster access for units moving later around that bend?

What about the other Workers in the area? Should we pre-Road every Forest that needs to be Chopped later or are there better things to do with our Workers?

Is our stack going to march toward Madrid, back south-west and head toward Huayna's south-west part of his empire, or north then west through Santiago and toward Huayna?

I don't feel comfortable attacking Asoka's City with 3 Muskets vs 3 Archers... he has a Hills City. Even 1 Cat would have helped tremendously.

I could attack next turn when the 4th Musket has movement points available to him or I could wait on it until the two Muskets who are wounded heal some more. The battle odds are poor at just over 60%.

I see a Musket that looks like he's headed back eastward toward Thessa... is that where he is going?

It looks like Sarmatian is going to starve hardcore thanks to the recent Drafting. Are we okay with this fact?

What Cities am I supposed to keep/raze?

Are we going to push out Bursa's Cultural Borders to 100 Culture to try and steal the Wine from Alex and to potentially make it easier for us to hit his City instead of the other way around when we go to war with him?

Overall, what are the goals for our Workers who aren't building Forts? Farms? Roads? Roading Forests that will be Chopped? Pre-Chopping? Or, is it overkill to invest Worker turns for Forests that will be Chopped later and we should look more at building Farms/Windmills/whatever for the short term?

What are we doing with our Great General? Using him on Galleys? Something else?

If our stack doesn't beeline Madrid, are we going to build a Settler island instead? Are we going to raze Madrid? Or, is it my job to send one force to Huayna and then reinforcements to Madrid?

The Spies will get sent to sit inside of Huayna's Cities.

If the AP Resolution proposal times keep counting down, we'll have to wait to declare war until after there are no more cycles remaining, to avoid a possible flip into Taoism by Huayna via switching into Theocracy, but then we should have Spies in place to use Espionage to mess with him in case of disaster.

On that note, all EPs onto Huayna for now.

If Toledo gets whipped down badly, do we still keep it?

What's the story on Murcia? Capture? Raze? Ignore for now?

Are we planning a Cease Fire on Kublai or are we just going to bust through his north-west City and go after Huayna while simultaneously staying at war with Kublai?

Dhoomstriker · Apr 24, 2014

WastinTime said:
HC: Constitution (8). Great tech for him to waste time on!

Ummmm, don't we want Huayna to go after Economics for us? If yes, that means feeding him techs until he picks Economics (unless he picks Democracy and then don't feed him that).

ZPV · Apr 24, 2014

Dhoomstriker said:
Ummmm, don't we want Huayna to go after Economics for us? If yes, that means feeding him techs until he picks Economics (unless he picks Democracy and then don't feed him that).

Not worth the risk (of allowing him to research Rifling)

WastinTime · Apr 24, 2014

Dhoomstriker said:
My "pre-PPP" is probably going to mostly consist of asking questions to WT (others are free to respond) as I think of said questions. The PPP should then write itself if I've asked enough of the right questions.

For example... I see some Workers at Konya that are supposed to build a Farm... but, then what? Do I complete the Road there since it may provide faster access for units moving later around that bend?

What about the other Workers in the area? Should we pre-Road every Forest that needs to be Chopped later or are there better things to do with our Workers?

Is our stack going to march toward Madrid, back south-west and head toward Huayna's south-west part of his empire, or north then west through Santiago and toward Huayna?

I don't feel comfortable attacking Asoka's City with 3 Muskets vs 3 Archers... he has a Hills City. Even 1 Cat would have helped tremendously.

I could attack next turn when the 4th Musket has movement points available to him or I could wait on it until the two Muskets who are wounded heal some more. The battle odds are poor at just over 60%.

I see a Musket that looks like he's headed back eastward toward Thessa... is that where he is going?

It looks like Sarmatian is going to starve hardcore thanks to the recent Drafting. Are we okay with this fact?

What Cities am I supposed to keep/raze?

Are we going to push out Bursa's Cultural Borders to 100 Culture to try and steal the Wine from Alex and to potentially make it easier for us to hit his City instead of the other way around when we go to war with him?

Overall, what are the goals for our Workers who aren't building Forts? Farms? Roads? Roading Forests that will be Chopped? Pre-Chopping? Or, is it overkill to invest Worker turns for Forests that will be Chopped later and we should look more at building Farms/Windmills/whatever for the short term?

What are we doing with our Great General? Using him on Galleys? Something else?

If our stack doesn't beeline Madrid, are we going to build a Settler island instead? Are we going to raze Madrid? Or, is it my job to send one force to Huayna and then reinforcements to Madrid?

The Spies will get sent to sit inside of Huayna's Cities.

If the AP Resolution proposal times keep counting down, we'll have to wait to declare war until after there are no more cycles remaining, to avoid a possible flip into Taoism by Huayna via switching into Theocracy, but then we should have Spies in place to use Espionage to mess with him in case of disaster.

On that note, all EPs onto Huayna for now.

If Toledo gets whipped down badly, do we still keep it?

What's the story on Murcia? Capture? Raze? Ignore for now?

Are we planning a Cease Fire on Kublai or are we just going to bust through his north-west City and go after Huayna while simultaneously staying at war with Kublai?

I'm going to step back a bit and not dictate so much. I've been a pretty dominant player lately. You have the freedom to suggest to the team whatever you want with the workers and even the attack after Madrid. Whatever you and ZPV think is best to conquer all cities by T160...AND get a grip on the Florence situation (i.e. build a settler soon, maybe even consider switching out of the Treb I just chopped in Ankara) I think I marked Ankara's forests as "save for exec" but that might not be necessary. Figure out if Ankara is needed for an exec spread and if not, chop away.

Asoka's city. I know it's rough cus he added so many units. And on top of that, the tile they're standing on just flipped so healing is very slow. IMO, it's best to hit him this turn and see how the dice rolls come out because then you have a good chance of being able to clean up by attacking a 2nd time with a survivor (which will get a promotion). Waiting for T141 is a much higher gamble if Tao miraculously shows up there. Do what you think is best there, but don't spend too much time on this sidetrack that is not likely to be a real problem.

That musket that looks like he's going to Thess killed an archer on that tile.
He can turn around or whatever you want.

Sarmation
Yes, N.W. is much more important and will get happy(er) next turn. Let it have the Rice. Sarmation has a ton of forests and won't need to whip an exec. It also only has 1 exec there. There is a musket heading up there for MP duty and to protect against KK invading since all other units are "going to jail"

Keep vs. Raze.
Again, whatever you suggest/the team agrees to.
As you've seen, we can keep cities like Santiago to help with troop movements and raze them later, so there is flexibility. However, the plan is for you to keep Madrid only--long term. Nothing else is a sure keeper. I think we decided to keep Toledo for a while at least (while it's in revolt) and decide later after coal is revealed. same for Barcelona and all those ice cities--we were going to give them to Asoka some day. So, you'll probably be keeping almost all cities...as long as there is a 100% reliable plan to eventually raze most of these

Bursa, go for the wine if you think you can get it faster than another wine.

Workers: disband...or whatever you prefer to do with them

GG: I didn't figure out when we'd get one. I think if we do, and he can get to our galleys in time, we might need him there. I could save 1 turn, or it might not have any noticable effect.

Toledo: KK can't whip.

Murcia, I was ignoring. Eventually we surely want to raze it, but best to wait for coal reveal.

KK: I had no CF planned. Break his back, and move on to HC...again...or whatever ZPV and the team want to do to get all cities by T160. Freedom! Enjoy! I really had fun on my turnset. I didn't want to stop! You probably didn't notice :mischief:

Mitchum · Apr 24, 2014

WastinTime said:
I'm going to step back a bit and not dictate so much. I've been a pretty dominant player lately.

By lately do you mean the last 3 months?

Actually, I think your advice and planning for the next turnset is appropriate. You just played so you have the best handle on what's going on with military units, workers, cities, war planning, drafting, tech pace, etc. You giving detailed advice is helpful to the next player(s). Dhoom should not blindly follow your suggestions, which are simply your input. Anything you suggested is open for discussion and can be changed. Trust me, Dhoom will make changes if he disagrees with you... :mischief:

In addition, you've been the only one to lay out a detailed executive spreading plan so at this point, your plan is our plan until someone comes up with something different (which I think ZPV is working on). This has been normal practice on TSR. If someone lays out a detailed GPP plan, for example, there is no need for anyone to reinvent the wheel if the plan is still valid. Of course, the plan can be changed and anyone on the team, not just the active player, can make suggested changes.

ZPV · Apr 24, 2014

Here are a couple of screenshots I've taken, to make things easier to plan.
I'll post annotated versions in a little bit, of where I expect we'll need stacks, for defeating Alex and HC.
The second one should be useful for visually seeing the executive spread plans.

Mitchum · Apr 24, 2014

@ ZPV

How do you take screen shots like this? I've seen them but when I zoom out the world starts to look like a globe (although I may not havet tried on a flat map before) and not a flat map.

ZPV · Apr 24, 2014

Mitchum said:
@ ZPV

How do you take screen shots like this? I've seen them but when I zoom out the world starts to look like a globe (although I may not havet tried on a flat map before) and not a flat map.

a) Deleting all the signs manually. :eek:

b) Flying Camera. These screenshots are quite taxing on my 4-year-old laptop.
In particular, Alt+F to give satellite camera view centred where you want the screenshot, and then Alt+Ctrl+F to enable flying, and then zoom out with the mouse wheel.

Jastrow · Apr 24, 2014

Is that allowed? I though Flying camara was forbidden in gotm (or are only some uses of it forbidden)?

To be honest, I would not even know how to activate it, and have no clue how it works, so I never payed much attention to that discussion, but I am sure it was at least talk about at some point.

ZPV · Apr 24, 2014

War plans:

Alex and HC

Spoiler :

The red stack will be fastmovers. Every knight that Lalibela builds in the next few turns will be part of that stack, as well as the +move rifle(s), a settler, and 3 workers.
I would also like Aksum to immediately switch to a knight for this stack, if possible.
The red square is only 5 knight-moves away from Lalibela :eek:

That means I'd like Lali to try and produce 1 knight/turn from now until t145. I don't know if that's possible, but it looks like it is, by slowly starving down.
This stack will march on t150. Steam Power means it's quicker to build a fort

The black stack will do a little jig, taking advantage of the forced-unowned tiles after hitting Damascus to knock out Kufah.
It needs to march before we DoW Alex.

The yellow and purple stacks need to contain a high number of riflemen, and I expect them to march on t150.

These unit needs indicate that we will have to keep drafting heavily - the early drafts will form the black stack (plus some siege). All the other drafts, and the last rounds of siege will form the yellow and purple stacks.
Our victorious KK stack will march in along the green arrow, and cause general havoc.

I do not forsee us keeping any of Alex or HC's cities.

edit: I realise I need to work out what to do about Alex's stack.
--------------
Great Generals.
I expect we'll probably get two before t150.
One (I assume) will be needed to promote a bunch of boats for the spreading plan.
The other I would like to upgrade a CR melee unit, to walk with the fastmovers stack.

ZPV · Apr 24, 2014

Jastrow said:
Is that allowed? I though Flying camara was forbidden in gotm (or are only some uses of it forbidden)?

To be honest, I would not even know how to activate it, and have no clue how it works, so I never payed much attention to that discussion, but I am sure it was at least talk about at some point.

Umm... I really hope it's allowed. :blush:

I thought it was just the trick of using it to see stuff through the fog/shroud like mountains and pyramids that was forbidden.
In any case, these screenshots could just be produced by stitching together regular satellite camera screenies. *cough*

Jastrow · Apr 24, 2014

It may well be. As I said, since I never use the feature, I did not pay much attention to the discussion.

LowtherCastle · Apr 24, 2014

Mitchum said:
By lately do you mean the last 3 months?

Actually, I think your advice and planning for the next turnset is appropriate. You just played so you have the best handle on what's going on with military units, workers, cities, war planning, drafting, tech pace, etc. You giving detailed advice is helpful to the next player(s). Dhoom should not blindly follow your suggestions, which are simply your input. Anything you suggested is open for discussion and can be changed. Trust me, Dhoom will make changes if he disagrees with you...

In addition, you've been the only one to lay out a detailed executive spreading plan so at this point, your plan is our plan until someone comes up with something different (which I think ZPV is working on). This has been normal practice on TSR. If someone lays out a detailed GPP plan, for example, there is no need for anyone to reinvent the wheel if the plan is still valid. Of course, the plan can be changed and anyone on the team, not just the active player, can make suggested changes.

+1.

I don't think we have time for anyone to re-invent the wheel. WT, I'd like to see summaries your exec spread plan (especially worker requirements) and how you envisioned the KK and HC war occurring. Also any details for how we're supposed to get STeam by T147, that might no be self-evident to the rest of us.

LowtherCastle · Apr 24, 2014

ZPV said:
Umm... I really hope it's allowed.
I thought it was just the trick of using it to see stuff through the fog/shroud like mountains and pyramids that was forbidden.
In any case, these screenshots could just be produced by stitching together regular satellite camera screenies. *cough*

There's nothing written that disallows the flying camera in SGs that I'm aware of. I think it was explicitly disallowed for one game (SG13?) The Plastic Ducks and we had a gentleman's agreement to not use it.

But yes, the point was to not use it to gain otherwise fogged information (as in SG12). That's not what you did.

LowtherCastle · Apr 24, 2014

ZPV said:
War plans:

I do not forsee us keeping any of Alex or HC's cities.

Cool.

What are your thoughts for coal in that area? Build settlers unless their city is on it or the city will expand borders in time, etc?

What about barb spawned cities?

SGOTM 19 - The Shawshank Redemption

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Girlie Builder

Girlie Builder

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

Deity

Deity

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

Attachments

Deity

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

Deity

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

Attachments

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

Deity

Deity

Deity

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