SGOTM 20 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

nocho · Sep 14, 2014

If we hire a spy too in Rheims, next GP in 14 turns. Whipping a market will consume too much time here for regrowth, but Ankara might be an alternative. I was even wondering, maybe we can quickly research drama (possible in 2 turns) and whip a theatre? Much, much cheaper than a market (2 pop whip) and 2 spec slots anyhow. Speeding that new great person up would be beneficial, I think. And drama is good fodder for selling and raising cash.

Get a WB for Tours, from Orleans maybe. Wait, the one from Chartres is for Tours? Ok!

After the astro bulb I'd get CS from Napoleon for feud and other stuff he lacks. I'd like some farms for Copper Summit so it can grow a bit more. Get a worker for that road between CS and Vladivostok.

It seems our HAs have surprisingly decent odds vs the Christian cities, especially if the only have 2 archers. Maybe I'd just try with those HAs if you have 2 per archer in striking distance. Then our slower moving units can move back.

EDIT: Beware of revolts in Rostov!! Despite having the tiles back, the city might still flip to our vassal Cathy! We need units there, at least those 3 units 2S of it should go back imo. A theatre here and perma hire 2 artists would be good also btw.

Oh, and how about the Forbidden Palace somewhere? Rouen maybe.

haphazard1 · Sep 14, 2014

nocho said:
A triple switch (rep, bur, OR) might be in the making but given our size will be a lot of anarchy. Can we get that next GP sooner for a GA? Whip a market or something for more slots?

Would we want Bureaucracy? I would need to check SL to see just what benefit we would get for a high-cost civic. Given the size of our empire, maybe Vassalage would be better? More XP for new troops, and the free troop boost would save us a chunk of cash every turn. I would need to check the exact numbers to know which might be better.

nocho said:
Get a WB for Tours, from Orleans maybe. Wait, the one from Chartres is for Tours? Ok!

Yes, the WB building in Chartres is intended for Tours. We have a couple others being built for whales, and to restore food in the Hindu holy city once it is ours.

nocho said:
After the astro bulb I'd get CS from Napoleon for feud and other stuff he lacks. I'd like some farms for Copper Summit so it can grow a bit more. Get a worker for that road between CS and Vladivostok.

Chain irrigation can help us in a number of places, CS definitely being one. Or we could add some windmills on the unmined hills there to keep the city growing slowly. Maybe both. And that road segment to Vladivostok is definitely in the plans.

nocho said:
It seems our HAs have surprisingly decent odds vs the Christian cities, especially if the only have 2 archers. Maybe I'd just try with those HAs if you have 2 per archer in striking distance. Then our slower moving units can move back.

I am hoping our 2-movers can handle the Christian cities. The sword will be in position to help with Peteropolis next turn, making 5 units able to attack. Paulopolis is a bit tougher with 100% defenses but worst case an elephant or two should finish it off. Once the barb culture vanishes our units can move back west pretty quickly. I have workers moving to add road connections.

nocho said:
EDIT: Beware of revolts in Rostov!! Despite having the tiles back, the city might still flip to our vassal Cathy! We need units there, at least those 3 units 2S of it should go back imo. A theatre here and perma hire 2 artists would be good also btw.

I checked Rostov and saw no revolt percentage, which is why the massed troops were scattering to other tasks. I will recheck to be sure.

nocho said:
Oh, and how about the Forbidden Palace somewhere? Rouen maybe.

This is a very good idea -- we are paying a lot of distance maintenance in former France, and it will get worse as Dijon and Lyons come out of resistance and all the cities recover and grow larger. The Christian cities, plus any others we plant to the east for domination purposes, will also be helped. I will have to consider where might be the best spot.

nocho · Sep 14, 2014

Vassalage is indeed much better given the circumstances. :goodjob:

Rostov has a 5% revolt chance right now! It didn't have any 3 turns ago.

FP in Tours looks most central, but that city has plans already. Rouen looks ok to me and has some forests, but open to other suggestions.

I'd like some more workers concentrated at Tours btw.

McArine · Sep 14, 2014

I haven't got much to add to the plan, except, please whip a Market in HF when available, it'll add 8 gold pr.turn.

Also looking forward to see how much mountain there is surrounding the barb city to our south. I hope we don't need paratroopers...

BSPollux · Sep 14, 2014

Troops are approaching the Christian holy city of "Paulopolis". I am loving the names, Pollux!

I had them with standart names, Deckhand suggested renaming them and he provided the names as well.

Sleepless · Sep 14, 2014

Well my thoughts...

Bulb astro... Well what we can of it. I did mention we would be missing quite a lot of beakers.

Personally I would suck up the anarchy now and spend 2 turns into Rep/Vass/OR. Atm it won't cause us much delay because as I've said before spreading religion will be the slowest part of the game (unless we need paras) and were not likely to get religion in the next turn or so.

Worker actions.. Concentrate on food improvements. We will want to whip missionaries/temples out of cities so the more pop the better we will succeed in this.

Economy.. Hardly care. Were going to have galleons and knights in the near future. What else do we need? As long as we don't go broke (which we won't) it doesn't seem to matter much to me.

Resource trades.. Give/sell Cathie ivory/iron. When she gets guilds she will upgrade to knights and help with our attack on AC.

Carry on the good work Hap..

Edit.. I think we should also spend 100 gold on upgrading a couple of triremes this turn as we really want the circumnavigation bonus..

nocho · Sep 14, 2014

Well maybe Sleepless is right and we might as well take the anarchy now, or next turn if we wanna wait for some unit completions (like Ankara's caravel). Remember the right order: astro-bulb, CS-trade, Rep/Vass/OR-revolt.

I'm also not against upgrading some triremes, it's 50g each. I'd take triremes #5 (next turn move 1 SE and upgrade), #10 (near Ghuzz) and #13 (St Pete) for that. #5 and #10 for circumnavigation, #13 for inspecting north island, Ankara's one for south island. #13 least important to upgrade of these three, obviously.

Good luck.

haphazard1 · Sep 14, 2014

OK, played a bit further. Things are going well.

- Bulbed GS into Astro, traded with Nap for CS (Feudalism + HBR, military techs I know but everyone else has them so we may as well get value for them while we can), triple revolted as planned.
- The Hindu and Christian holy cities are ours.

Hindu holy city even has the shrine.

Cost us some units, but overall combat luck was pretty decent and losses small.
- Kept Peteropolis (non-holy Christian city) but burned Jamesopolis (was further east) since it was poorly placed and had no buildings. The French were about to try to take it, but we beat them to it (and to the 4 workers hiding inside

).
- We got our first 2 free spreads of Hinduism.

Istanbul has begun a missionary, Beach will as soon as it finishes its current project.
- With city capture cash and lots of Rep specialists, we are maybe 4-5 turns from Astro. I will probably hold current galleys in queue as I think (anyone know for certain?) they will auto-upgrade to galleons. Unlike those nasty triremes.

I plan to play a few more turns, with focus on exploration (including caravels that are working towards circumnavigation) and getting troops to the Buddhist holy city. The barb city SE of Napoleon is the Jewish holy city. The island with the Confucian holy city (north of Peter's old lands) has a lot of barb units moving around. And there are mountains around the Taoist holy city (south of Ghuzz)...hopefully there is a way in without paratroops.

Save is uploaded for your inspection, all suggestions welcome.

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Ronnie1 · Sep 14, 2014

Definitely put troops back in Rostov!

An option we might consider is a switch to Caste System, we could run 7 scientists in Rheims without losing any pop, maybe 8 for a short while. Odds would be good for another GS, if we don't get it, we start a GA and make sure we get a GS next. We could research Engineering for better movement and Trebs.

nocho · Sep 14, 2014

Sounds very good, haph, keep it up!

Will take a look later.

Sleepless · Sep 14, 2014

My thoughts..

Beach (as any city able to build one) should start a missionary now and spread asap.. i.e whip them out.. Not much use for the galley in that area to me. Saying that St Petersburg should start one as soon as the wb is finished and whip a galleon. We need to start getting troops there for the Northern barbs. Ditto start aiming for troops for AC..

City builds.. I would basically abandon everything in favour of units/missionaries/temples. Much to many buildings. Saying that as soon as we have guilds we want as many knights as we can get.. :lol:

Were still 20% away from domination so need to grab quite a bit of land. Vassaling AC or JC and probably in preference Viccie should do it. Including the barb lands would hopefully take us over the domination limit..

Please trade iron - Cathie as well. We want her building knights in 4 turns. After astro I would put a turn or so into music and trade optics for music. Then astro for guilds.

Also make sure we have caravels going East and West we want the navigation bonus asap..

Carry on the good work..

Edit.. Yep def engineering after astro and put Cathie on it as well. At least that's my thoughts..

nocho · Sep 14, 2014

Agree with Sleepless on most or all accounts. Also the good work part.

Indeed, prioritise religion spread. With the shrine especially on hindu. Whip after a turn and spread to closest cities first. In Peteropolis and Paulopolis also some christ missionaries before CHs. Temples when other cities take over missionary work.

Don't forget the road to Vladivostok, it's not as far as it sounds.

Indeed get music, we'll want to build culture as astro will obsolete stonehenge and a whole lot of monuments.

So we need 21% land more. Napoleon is actually closest rival with 7% land. That means that even if we vassal 4 of the 5 remaining AIs (leave 1 to avoid conquest) we won't have enough land. We should be looking to fill more space. South of the Christian cities for example, but possibly also those islands in the north; SW of CS when the buddhist city is ours, etc.

Certainly hope that southern Tao island doesn't need paratroopers. Could also be a trap... Maybe it's just a barb city with a lot of culture and the Tao holy city is tucked away somewhere else. Exploration will tell.

haphazard1 · Sep 14, 2014

We have zero chance of revolt in Rostov again. The southern route might be slightly quicker, but it is easier to just use Rostov as our rally point for accumulating troops for Rome.

Sleepless said:
Beach (as any city able to build one) should start a missionary now and spread asap.. i.e whip them out.. Not much use for the galley in that area to me. Saying that St Petersburg should start one as soon as the wb is finished and whip a galleon. We need to start getting troops there for the Northern barbs. Ditto start aiming for troops for AC..

City builds.. I would basically abandon everything in favour of units/missionaries/temples. Much to many buildings. Saying that as soon as we have guilds we want as many knights as we can get..

I am not sure how hard we want to push missionaries yet, compared to waiting longer and getting some free spreads. Ideally we want to be using our missionaries on cities that already have one religion. We do want to spread to a few cities that especially need culture, such as Rostov, so they can build religious buildings for culture.

One problem with getting Astro so quickly is losing the free monuments from Stonehenge -- some cities will not pop their borders without additional culture.

The big question is how long it will take to handle Rome, England, and the barb holy cities. I think we still have some time, and are not yet to the point of mass whipping max missionaries every turn.
Some infrastructure is still useful.

Sleepless said:
Were still 20% away from domination so need to grab quite a bit of land. Vassaling AC or JC and probably in preference Viccie should do it. Including the barb lands would hopefully take us over the domination limit..

We should probably start turning out some settlers to claim some of the free land in the far east, and a couple other areas. There are some non-holy cities on some of the barb islands that will give some land as well.

Sleepless said:
Please trade iron - Cathie as well. We want her building knights in 4 turns. After astro I would put a turn or so into music and trade optics for music. Then astro for guilds.

Meant to do that, but forgot.

Should we gift her some luxuries as well, boost her happy caps?

Sleepless said:
Also make sure we have caravels going East and West we want the navigation bonus asap..

Already have them out and moving.

Sleepless · Sep 14, 2014

We could whip the missionaries for cities that already have a religion and hope for lots of spreading. I'd still rather we get the religions spread asap though.

No harm in helping Cathie. I normally gift my vassals lots of resources to boost them.

Agree on the need for more settlers as well.

Ronnie1 · Sep 14, 2014

I think we spread religions asap!

I generally agree with sleepless' earlier post.

Missionaries/units/Temples/Galleons.

Nothing else required imo.

haphazard1 · Sep 14, 2014

My Civ machine has developed some issues today, and is crashing intermittently.

Still trying to diagnose the source of the problem.

I think I had better hand off to the next player. I was going to play a few more turns, but I doubt I could manage without at least one crash. Better not to risk any problems.

Ronnie1 · Sep 14, 2014

The roster order is:

Ronnie1 -
McArine -
haphazard1 - Just Played
Sleepless - Up Now!
nocho - On Deck

On the bench
da_Vinci

Advising:
Ororo, adrianj

Sleepless · Sep 15, 2014

OK got it and look to put up a PPP later today..

BSPollux · Sep 15, 2014

haphazard1 said:
The French were about to try to take it, but we beat them to it (and to the 4 workers hiding inside ).

Remember this moment for the post-game discussion.

haphazard1 · Sep 15, 2014

BSPollux said:
Remember this moment for the post-game discussion.

Interesting....

I have been wondering about the Christian holy cities and other games. The graphs show other teams with a lot more culture than we have, much sooner. The Christian cities were not well defended (a pair of archers apiece?) and were not isolated geographically by water and mountains as all the others are. Yet none of the AIs had captured them before we got there at the very late date of 800 AD. :confused:

The two French civs have done very poorly this game, really. Napoleon was largely boxed in by Louis, but there was open space to his east. Desert and maybe he did not want cities there, but he should have had units out and found the Christian barb cities and sent an attack force. What took him so long? :confused:

And Louis...he did better, but was also really slow to expand and did nothing about the Christian cities. I get that he started in the middle of a lot of jungle, and I am sure he wasted a ton of effort trying to get seafood and being smashed by the barb triremes. But there were still multiple jungle tiles sitting at Lyon, unimproved -- at 700 AD or so! And why had he not captured the Christian cities? This is immortal difficulty, after all. Even with walls/castle a couple archers should not have stopped him, with the AI bonus against barbs at this level. :confused:

Thinking about it a bit more, Peter also did a terrible job expanding. His second city took so long we thought he must have gone wonder first. And maybe he did and lost the race to the French, who got Stonehenge and the Great Wall. But then Peter was very slow to expand east, where there was some pretty good land. But there were a plague of barbs on the northern waters, so maybe he also wasted a bunch of hammers trying to claim seafood and getting smashed? Naval barb units are very hard to deal with early, as ships are so expensive and you can not get much better than even odds.

If we had explored more earlier, we could have found the Christian cities and had religion dozens of turns earlier. Or of course a bigger effort against the barb triremes could have gotten us the Hindu holy city earlier. I am guessing that in many (most?) other games this happened, thus the much higher culture of the other teams in the graphs. Get Hinduism dozens of turns earlier, spread it everywhere and profit from the pre-built shrine...it would make a big difference.

I think it will be very interesting to compare with other teams' games once the SGOTM is complete.

SGOTM 20 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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