Ronnie1
Deity
Looks good MM. Not a huge deal on the coins, just try to check cities at the end of every turn, especially when you grow.
SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Ronnie1
Deity
No copper with Impi's around is not a great long term situation even if we have horses.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Agreed. I just recently finished a personal game, Always War setting, to practice my war mongering. Shaka was one of my opponents, and his impis were a massive pain in the neck to deal with. Hopefully we may have iron somewhere, so that by the time we need to actively deal with Shaka we will be able to build metal units.
Will have a good look tonight at the save but seems everything went to plan..
namliaM
Lack of bronze is a bit of a pain. At least with hunting archery won't take long if we need it.
Regarding Shaka if he's taken 21 turns to reach us he won't be that close and if he knows Wil he won't like either of us so we both could be potential targets not just us.
Seems like we might find a Monte and Nap around as well.
namliaMLack of bronze is a bit of a pain. At least with hunting archery won't take long if we need it.
Regarding Shaka if he's taken 21 turns to reach us he won't be that close and if he knows Wil he won't like either of us so we both could be potential targets not just us.
Seems like we might find a Monte and Nap around as well.
Ronnie1
Deity
How many turns and worker actions to AH?
IIRC 6 turns at full research, so probably 7 turns total to AH. Are we in agreement on going AH next? It has my vote at least.
Who is up next? I could take it if needed.
In the end, how do we fogbust Corinth? Will the scout be heading back? Sparta at 3 will switch to worker which gets the chop from gems, right?
Who is up next? I could take it if needed.
In the end, how do we fogbust Corinth? Will the scout be heading back? Sparta at 3 will switch to worker which gets the chop from gems, right?
Ronnie1
Deity
Sparta will finish warrior in time I think and then start worker.
I am in favor of AH next!
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
I also favor going for AH next.
nocho, if you are willing to take the next turnset that would be great. We are sort of determining the player rotation as we go this first time through, then we can continue the order that gets established. So if anyone wants to volunteer to be next just speak up. Or if the team prefers I can randomly generate an ordering for the rest of the slots.
We definitely need to make certain the Corinth settler is safe, by fogbusting or escort.
nocho, if you are willing to take the next turnset that would be great. We are sort of determining the player rotation as we go this first time through, then we can continue the order that gets established. So if anyone wants to volunteer to be next just speak up.
Or if the team prefers I can randomly generate an ordering for the rest of the slots.We definitely need to make certain the Corinth settler is safe, by fogbusting or escort.
namliaM
Deity
Please find updated the test save to what I played. I didnt yet remoddel the land that we now know to be water.
No shaka in our test game, made us meet another AI for fun
Though I neglected to set EP in the test save to Willem which I did do in the real game.
I did add the fish due north, think it is in the right place.
I actually favour Sailing > AH...
Basicaly for the following reasons
1) We wont do anything to use AH, no pasture and we wont be building Chariots to bust fog either .... Maybe a scout but as long as we get warriors out sooner than the Chariots.... offcourse if there is horses building a pasture there will be more important than a grass mine assuming its near Sparta.
2) Earlier start on the Galley (and chop timing) in Corinth will be easier and help to perhaps have a look at the Fish due east. But mostly for the chops of the gems...
2 is pretty important IMHO, also I doubt we have Horses, forcing us a choice to go IW or keep focus on Currency...
Sparta should finish the warrior in time to arrive at corinth, though the 2 extra hammers may finish the Settler a turn sooner than earlier tested....
Just tested it to make sure, without intervention the settler and warrior will arrive @ Corinth on exactly the same turn. Which should be good enough for the warrior to ensure it is save and then the Settler to follow.
It is 6 turn to AH, 7 to sailing (both at 100%) we have 11 gold in the bank @ -3 gold per turn.
We make 16 gold @ 0% and will need to revolt to Slavery some time soon-ish, which needs 1 turn of revolt, 1 turn at 0% for both techs.
Also should get the gem online @ Sparta worth 7 commerce (though that is 7 turns away)
No shaka in our test game, made us meet another AI for fun
Though I neglected to set EP in the test save to Willem which I did do in the real game.
I did add the fish due north, think it is in the right place.
I actually favour Sailing > AH...
Basicaly for the following reasons
1) We wont do anything to use AH, no pasture and we wont be building Chariots to bust fog either .... Maybe a scout but as long as we get warriors out sooner than the Chariots.... offcourse if there is horses building a pasture there will be more important than a grass mine assuming its near Sparta.
2) Earlier start on the Galley (and chop timing) in Corinth will be easier and help to perhaps have a look at the Fish due east. But mostly for the chops of the gems...
2 is pretty important IMHO, also I doubt we have Horses, forcing us a choice to go IW or keep focus on Currency...
Sparta should finish the warrior in time to arrive at corinth, though the 2 extra hammers may finish the Settler a turn sooner than earlier tested....
Just tested it to make sure, without intervention the settler and warrior will arrive @ Corinth on exactly the same turn. Which should be good enough for the warrior to ensure it is save and then the Settler to follow.
It is 6 turn to AH, 7 to sailing (both at 100%) we have 11 gold in the bank @ -3 gold per turn.
We make 16 gold @ 0% and will need to revolt to Slavery some time soon-ish, which needs 1 turn of revolt, 1 turn at 0% for both techs.
Also should get the gem online @ Sparta worth 7 commerce (though that is 7 turns away)
@namliaM, thanks for the test game, but I get something odd: the whole interface is missing! There's a message in screen that says "BugInit - init() already running". Anything speacial about the save that you're aware of?
EDIT: nevermind, reloaded from scratch and now it seems okay.
EDIT: nevermind, reloaded from scratch and now it seems okay.
To counter those arguments:
1) We'll pasture the cow. When we're size 4 and working crab and gem, then besides those 2 tiles we can work cow farm+mined hill which gives 5f3h, while pastured cow and unimproved forest GH (2E of Sparta) gives 5f4h, which is a bit more. Every hammer helps in Sparta for LH and GLH. Assuming building a worker in Sparta, the pasture will be done by the time we hit size 4.
Besides we'll evidently know about horses, which is important. If we do have them, it represents a strong tile. We'd only need a quick detour for wheel (3 or 4 turns by then) to have a significantly better unit, that not only is for barb defense, but also scouting.
2) From a quick test I ran, it seems that if we go AH-Sailing, the first chop from gem mine at Corinth can still go to the galley, if we go straight mining the gem (as opposed to chop+mine). I do agree that those chops best be spent on that galley.
Other remarks from test run:
a) The plan in Athens is settler-worker-settler?
b) We're 10/15 hammers on the warrior in Sparta right now. Next turn we grow to 3 and have 11/15. That might mean we should work the forested GH in favour of cowfarm to get that warrior out that turn to coincide with the settler. Ok with that? Besides, if we wait a turn more, the chop won't go to the worker directly.
c) Presume we revolt to slavery when the settler is just finished, right? Looks like good timing to me.
namliaM
Deity
1) Once we finish the worker, it is 4 turns to grow to size 4
We have the option, pasture the Cows or Mine the hill offcourse we can work the grass hill which might make +2 hammers... yeah I guess your right, it does add a hammer / turn for 5-ish turns...
I am not sold on building TGL in sparta though....
Sailing first isnt as much about the chop, its about the "lost" hammers into the warrior while waiting for Sailing to come in which are IMHO better invested in a Galley vs a Warrior
2) Yes a Minechop works, did you work in the worker from Athens to help chop though?
Also it saves a worker turn if you go for a straight chop for the first worker .... by the time the second worker arrives he can go mine, saving a - right now precious - worker turn.
a) Depends on how fast we want that settler out.... I think we want to build Settler > Worker > Settler (MM to a "perfect" two pop whip)
Intertwine a lighthouse/warrior what ever to see about getting that two pop whip nice for overflow and grow to size 6 in Athens... Perhaps even grow Athens to 6 before starting the settler? Should test to see how timing works vs finishing the galley in conjunction with or without giving the wheat to Corinth and with Sailing > AH vs AH Sailing
b) dont think we need to rush the warrior, simply make sure the warrior gets to the corinth hill first ... not the settler and you can see it is save. Then move the settler.
c) I would revolt between the settler finishing and before settling Corinth, yes....
Try and squeeze it in before the Mine-chop comes in @ Sparta
Do make sure to straight mine, the gem hill with forest is the strongest third tile there.
We have the option, pasture the Cows or Mine the hill offcourse we can work the grass hill which might make +2 hammers... yeah I guess your right, it does add a hammer / turn for 5-ish turns...
I am not sold on building TGL in sparta though....
Sailing first isnt as much about the chop, its about the "lost" hammers into the warrior while waiting for Sailing to come in which are IMHO better invested in a Galley vs a Warrior
2) Yes a Minechop works, did you work in the worker from Athens to help chop though?
Also it saves a worker turn if you go for a straight chop for the first worker .... by the time the second worker arrives he can go mine, saving a - right now precious - worker turn.
a) Depends on how fast we want that settler out.... I think we want to build Settler > Worker > Settler (MM to a "perfect" two pop whip)
Intertwine a lighthouse/warrior what ever to see about getting that two pop whip nice for overflow and grow to size 6 in Athens... Perhaps even grow Athens to 6 before starting the settler? Should test to see how timing works vs finishing the galley in conjunction with or without giving the wheat to Corinth and with Sailing > AH vs AH Sailing
b) dont think we need to rush the warrior, simply make sure the warrior gets to the corinth hill first ... not the settler and you can see it is save. Then move the settler.
c) I would revolt between the settler finishing and before settling Corinth, yes....
Try and squeeze it in before the Mine-chop comes in @ Sparta
Do make sure to straight mine, the gem hill with forest is the strongest third tile there.
Two quick remarks/thoughts:
2) indeed 2nd worker landed on still forested gem tile. Maybe it's worth he first finishes that farn W of wheat? Will help growth. From there he can land on other gem tile.
B) I think subsequent worker is produced a turn earlier too if we get that warrior out a turn earlier. And worker turns this early are still precious as you note.
2) indeed 2nd worker landed on still forested gem tile. Maybe it's worth he first finishes that farn W of wheat? Will help growth. From there he can land on other gem tile.
B) I think subsequent worker is produced a turn earlier too if we get that warrior out a turn earlier. And worker turns this early are still precious as you note.
namliaM
Deity
Dont know if the lost commerce will be worth the farm?
True with the warrior done a turn earlier, the worker would be done earlier as well.
But will sparta be size 3 and will it be worth the 3 food: 2 hammers conversion in the long run?
True with the warrior done a turn earlier, the worker would be done earlier as well.
But will sparta be size 3 and will it be worth the 3 food: 2 hammers conversion in the long run?
Couldn't catch sleep so I tested a bit more...
I still would like to go AH first for the reasons mentioned. "Wasting" wood on warriors might be a valid concern, but I think it's not as bad. In fact, I just spent only 6 hammers from the chop on 1 warrior, the rest will overflow to galley.
The idea is to just chop the tile 1N of Corinth. The point is that the turn we finish the chop, the borders pop and we can work the other gem tile so no loss there. In this last run, I actually kept the wheat in Athens for 2 turns after founding Corinth, as it gets worker nr2 a turn earlier. That worker won't waste a turn either anymore by moving onto the gem tile. All in all that also means that that gem tile will be improved sooner. Of course if we do have horse, worker priorities might change.
When the chop comes in, Corinth's warrior is at 9/15, so still an overflow of 14, which conveniently can go to galley next turn as sailing will be just in. And that extra warrior certainly won't hurt at that point, as at least in the test save we have archers roaming about already.
As to whether to try and get the worker and warrior a turn earlier in Sparta at the cost of some food, it's a bit of a toss-up, really. 3 food is better than 2 hammers obviosuly, but getting the pasture a turn earlier gains back an extra 2 hammers. Possibly other improvements a turn earlier some extra gain, but very minimal. Going either way probably doesn't matter much in the long run.
I still would like to go AH first for the reasons mentioned. "Wasting" wood on warriors might be a valid concern, but I think it's not as bad. In fact, I just spent only 6 hammers from the chop on 1 warrior, the rest will overflow to galley.
The idea is to just chop the tile 1N of Corinth. The point is that the turn we finish the chop, the borders pop and we can work the other gem tile so no loss there. In this last run, I actually kept the wheat in Athens for 2 turns after founding Corinth, as it gets worker nr2 a turn earlier. That worker won't waste a turn either anymore by moving onto the gem tile. All in all that also means that that gem tile will be improved sooner.
Of course if we do have horse, worker priorities might change.When the chop comes in, Corinth's warrior is at 9/15, so still an overflow of 14, which conveniently can go to galley next turn as sailing will be just in. And that extra warrior certainly won't hurt at that point, as at least in the test save we have archers roaming about already.
As to whether to try and get the worker and warrior a turn earlier in Sparta at the cost of some food, it's a bit of a toss-up, really. 3 food is better than 2 hammers obviosuly, but getting the pasture a turn earlier gains back an extra 2 hammers. Possibly other improvements a turn earlier some extra gain, but very minimal. Going either way probably doesn't matter much in the long run.
namliaM
Deity
Forcing the warrior actually costs 5 food, think indeed that can go either way.
Dont think worker prio will change from getting gems up ASAP, unless horses pop near sparta on grassland or a hill. Pasture horse would then obviously be better than to build a mine
If we build Athens settler > worker (give wheat to corinth last turn) > settler
We can pre-build it to 67/100 for a nice 2 pop whip
Sailing > AH isnt about the hammers into the warrior, its the timing of the galley vs the mining of the 2 gems... the workers can be transported to the beaver immediatele,,,,
Stil 10 hammers flow into a warriot after the galley but the galley is out a turn faster saving 4 worker turns Assuming we transport the 2 workers to the beaver
The delayed galley also delays settling Braver Isle by one turn
We will want to decide before this turnset where to build tgl, so either Athens or Sparta can get started on a lighthouse while the other pushes warriors
We will want atleast 2 MPs (sparta and athens) and 4 busters on the ground by turn 50, which wont leave room to "waste" much hammers on infrastructure
Dont think worker prio will change from getting gems up ASAP, unless horses pop near sparta on grassland or a hill. Pasture horse would then obviously be better than to build a mine
If we build Athens settler > worker (give wheat to corinth last turn) > settler
We can pre-build it to 67/100 for a nice 2 pop whip
Sailing > AH isnt about the hammers into the warrior, its the timing of the galley vs the mining of the 2 gems... the workers can be transported to the beaver immediatele,,,,
Stil 10 hammers flow into a warriot after the galley but the galley is out a turn faster saving 4 worker turns Assuming we transport the 2 workers to the beaver
The delayed galley also delays settling Braver Isle by one turn
We will want to decide before this turnset where to build tgl, so either Athens or Sparta can get started on a lighthouse while the other pushes warriors
We will want atleast 2 MPs (sparta and athens) and 4 busters on the ground by turn 50, which wont leave room to "waste" much hammers on infrastructure
Well, let's hear some more opinions on this.
I just don't think getting out a galley asap is our number 1 priority here. I also wouldn't want to commit 2 workers to beaver island, that'll cost necessary worker turns on GLH.
Maybe that galley can even just be whipped, need be.
I just don't think getting out a galley asap is our number 1 priority here. I also wouldn't want to commit 2 workers to beaver island, that'll cost necessary worker turns on GLH.
Maybe that galley can even just be whipped, need be.
namliaM
Deity
One worker can keep up with sparta quite easy if we build tgl there, what will 2 workers be doing @ Athens/Corinth at this point?
If tgl goes in athens, perhaps one worker should be diverted to mine that south hill asap after the gems. but that also saves a turn by galley
I believe the best balance would be to build TGL in Athens and have Sparta spit out warriors, once we have a couple warriors out, perhaps whip out a settler for the Corn
We should if possible confirm the position of Corinth there are still 2 fogged tiles that may influence its position.
If tgl goes in athens, perhaps one worker should be diverted to mine that south hill asap after the gems. but that also saves a turn by galley
I believe the best balance would be to build TGL in Athens and have Sparta spit out warriors, once we have a couple warriors out, perhaps whip out a settler for the Corn
We should if possible confirm the position of Corinth there are still 2 fogged tiles that may influence its position.
namliaM
Deity
I think someone is urging us on ...
