SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

[namliaM]

I found farming the cow sped up the warrior enough to allow the scout some freedom. Are you able to have the warrior fogbust the Corinth site?

This would be the situation with grow to 5, if allowed "naturaly" ... Where the warrior has moved and the settler hasnt
The warrior can be rushed a turn at the expense of 2 food (working the mine over the Cow)
Or the settler from Athens for Corinth can be "set back" by 1 or 2 turns.
Either by part building a warrior (1 turn) or complete it (2 turns) to get the MP happy face and start claiming our investment of +1 hammer faster.
It still takes 7 turns for the settler, so he is delayed by 2 turns but the Worker (3) has 10 more hammers into it and indeed finish in 3 turns instead of 4

Basicaly changing 2 hammers (and some commerce) from Corinth into 10 hammers and 10 commerce for Athens
How about chopping/whipping TGL in Athens at this point?
Will probably delay settling of Beaver Isle, but with 100 hammers available from chops, could speed TGL up considerably.

 

[Ronnie1]

Are there any parts of all our options that take us through the completion of BW?

I feel it is very important to find out now if we have copper available. Not only for potential axes, but for proper planning on building the GLH. I had not really considered it because the starting area was so nice, but what if there is copper riverside in Athens? We can probably have GLH by T60 at the latest!

 

[namliaM]

all research bw as the next tech going ah now will delay gems (way) to long

Should get bw while building the settler in athens @ turn 32 ie a 14 turn set

intend to scout along the nw coast to open any traderoutes in that direction once we get corn city up
hopefully we can get a workboat or warrior to do the south coast(s)

 

[namliaM]

Chopping the forests near athens, but keeping the beaver and deer ones, TGL becomes 3 pop whip @ 62
or it will finish at turn 67

 

[haphazard1]

Planning to play through BW sounds good to me. Like Ronnie1 said, I would like to know if we have copper (and where, if we do). This info could impact our planning, as another strong hammer tile would change some priorities. Or we might need to rethink future city placement.

A 14 turn set sounds pretty good for this period of the game. Do we have any unresolved questions about those 14 turns?

 

[Sleepless]

Planning to play through BW sounds good to me. Like Ronnie1 said, I would like to know if we have copper (and where, if we do). This info could impact our planning, as another strong hammer tile would change some priorities. Or we might need to rethink future city placement.

A 14 turn set sounds pretty good for this period of the game. Do we have any unresolved questions about those 14 turns?

Also sounds good to me.. Finding out if we have access to copper will have a big affect on where we go from there.

 

[Sleepless]

Chopping the forests near athens, but keeping the beaver and deer ones, TGL becomes 3 pop whip @ 62
or it will finish at turn 67

Sort of torn between Athens or Sparta for the Glh. Possibly Sparta for glh and chop Oracle in Athens if possible. Of course a big downside of to many wonders is the polluted gp points if we will need scientists for an astro bulb down the line.

 

[Sleepless]

Let me take a second shot...

Scout
Go run about after ensuring settler safety... Do I run it far and fast (2 steps at a time) or do one step and try and ensure his safety?I'd do the one step ata time and keep it as safe as possible.
What to do when we meet other AI? Stop?Carry on imho. Won't have and affect atm
Or simply continue and if continue what to do with EP?Put ep on wil for the moment.

Worker
Mine the hill
Farm W of wheat ( only 1 turn, to ensure the cow is ready @ Sparta size 2)
Farm cow
Go to mine gem(s)

Settle Sparta
Warrior
Worker (+ chop)

Athens
Finish settler
Finish workboat (goes to nets @ Sparta)
Workboat (for Athens, force the mine @ size 3 add farm @ 4)
Worker ( or settler? )

Tech Bronzeworking, burning when we have it.

* In this game I build it after the warrior finished

At T50,

Pop of, 6, 4, 2
Wheat farm + farm 1W, Cow pasture, 5*mine, 1*camp
3 worker
4 warriors

Tech = Got sailing > AH (to pasture the cows ASAP) >
Now I left science on 0% too long only put 125/130 beakers into Masonry but have 38 Gold in the bank (good for 4 turns @ 100%)
Should obviously have Masonry as next tech researched already....

Both Turn 32 (bronzeworking in) and T50 saves attached TGL is a long way off though

I build a Worker > Settler from Athens, worker can make the farm and chop Corinth hill before the settler gets there, but need to waste 2 worker turns waiting for the borders of Corinth to pop its borders...
Plus the galley is not finished

I haven't played these turns yet (stupid rl in the way) but all seems reasonable to me.

Has anybody checked Wil's ep points in the real game. Should be able to tell if he has met anybody else.

Also if we are able to pinch any techs from ep points Wil is always a good target as he will be amongst the tech leaders.

 

[nocho]

A 14 turn set sounds pretty good for this period of the game. Do we have any unresolved questions about those 14 turns?

Some juggling of worker priorities, but there doesn't seem to be a major obstacle to go until BW. I would like to see a definite PPP though, that in turn should be greenlighted by at least 3 others than the one up, before it's played out. Is namliaM indeed taking the honours?

 

[namliaM]

I think the advantage of tgl in Athens is it gives Sparta the roll of spamming warriors, while athens conferts the forrests into a wonder.
offcourse the total hammers dont change either way but chops are harder to plan than straight hammers from the hills

If we give the wheat to Corinth and crabs to beaver isle to grow and run specialists, not much food left for athens to run specialists too

Just wondering about timing of beaver isle vs corn city... and the purpose of corn city.
we could give it some farms and whip granery/lib and gen a gs from it asap it has more food (now) compared to beaver isle.
trouble with CC is
1) more maintenance
2) less gain from commerce (both traderoutes and tiles worked)
3) Wont connect the beaver for

Beaver Isle however pref will also need/have a lighthouse adding to time to get it operational

So while i think CC will win the race to a GS (potential faster Academy / Astro bulb?*), beaver isle will be more cost effective (ie faster Currency)
CC will also form a strong defensive choke point for any barbs comming from the north
Most if not all will throw themselves on the city crossing the river doing so

Also those 6 scientist beakers will be equal to 12 commerce probably... making it a bit of a toss up for me... a bit more short term Beaver isle, mid term/long term Corn city

* we also need to make certain do we need astro to win?
or will we kill the world with macemen and trebs?
or go for space ( which i doubt)

 

[namliaM]

Also if we are able to pinch any techs from ep points Wil is always a good target as he will be amongst the tech leaders.

46/68 he must know someone besides us hard to tell when they met or how many there are

Biggest issue at hand for the next 14 turns to BW is the next tech after that and resultung worker actions...
A) AH > sailing
S) Sailing > AH

I dont think there is a major difference in TGL dates between the two which makes me inclined to go for A

Definate plan will depend on that future choice and then waying farming tile near Athens + mine near Sparta vs Farm the cow in time for Sparta @ size 2

final question affecting build queue in this 14 turns is my post #301 top of this page
1) get corinth asap
1a) risk the two fogged tiles
1b) force the warrior by a turn from sparta to defog the tiles

2) delay Corinth
2a) 1 turn, finish the warrior probably after the settler
2b) 2 turns adding MP to Athens

With answers to those two key questions I can adjust the plan

 

[Ronnie1]

Some juggling of worker priorities, but there doesn't seem to be a major obstacle to go until BW. I would like to see a definite PPP though, that in turn should be greenlighted by at least 3 others than the one up, before it's played out. Is namliaM indeed taking the honours?

Agree here 100%.

The questions I have are, build after after the second WB, tile use in Athens and worker actions up to moving to the gem hill on T31.

I think the scout needs to go back NE, exposing tiles near 2 gems and corn.

AI settler party in view is a stopping point imo!

I would prefer to see a warrior before the second settler for a bit of safety. I have also found through testing that the 2 turn delay is not that relevant because workers are not available before then anyway, and it gives the warrior from Sparta time to ensure safety.

If we have access to a copper resource, would we go AH next?

If the answer is no, then I would plan my worker actions along our proposed path, and then we can adjust if we need to later.

 

[Ronnie1]

From Pollux in the maintenance thread,

Is there a question hidden in there?
Just assume there's a difference between meeting a Queen on someones party and being able to form official, working trade relations with her country.

, followed by this from pigswill

The question is do we have to make contact (via exploration) with a Lady's civ before completing any of their tasks?

BSP answered NO!

Is there a clue in there somewhere?

 

[Ronnie1]

I get that at least 1 task can be performed without ever meeting face to face as it were, but maybe not all 3.

 

[nocho]

Well, if our task is to win the hearts of the ladies, I suppose we'll have to get to know them. Unless we're required to form a boy band of course.

 

[namliaM]

Agree here 100%.

The questions I have are, build after after the second WB, tile use in Athens and worker actions up to moving to the gem hill on T31.

This depends on the choices we make, I did forget one option btw:
0) Force settler at size 4
This works the Grass mine at size 3 to slow growth and speed the WB, starts the Settler a turn earlier and obviously more risk to settle Corinth

I think the scout needs to go back NE, exposing tiles near 2 gems and corn.

Dont think we need too, in particular if we go with option 2b which has my choice due to getting exploring ASAP at minimal risk.

AI settler party in view is a stopping point imo!

No problem, also if this happens to be 10 turns away with the scout though?

If we have access to a copper resource, would we go AH next?

If you look at the medium target of getting TGL, I dont think getting TGL is affected by the choice... My preference would be BW > AH > Sailing

Also because this will leave us room to spam warriors to start busting fog and scouting before feeling the pressure of starting a lighthouse > TGL build
We need 5-6 warriors out in the wild pretty much ASAP imho. to bust and scout.
2 Busters will prevent barb spawn due our north protecting our gems.
2 or 3 to our west
1 to scout, assuming the scout survives offcourse otherwize atleast another is needed.

Scouting warriors might be replaced by Workboats perhaps, less at risk of losing them to archers or galleys... BUT double the hammer price and IF they do run into galleys they are toast guaranteed.

 

[Ronnie1]

No problem, also if this happens to be 10 turns away with the scout though?

For the next 3 ish turns the scout needs to make sure the Cow site is secure. So 10 turns at 1.5 tiles per turn after that is not moving very far.

The idea had been presented a long time ago to check for extra food around the gems and corn. I think this is a good idea, this path also slows the generation of new barbs in the direction we intend to settle our 3rd city.

 

[Ronnie1]

Well, if our task is to win the hearts of the ladies, I suppose we'll have to get to know them. Unless we're required to form a boy band of course.

I think pigswill was fishing for information. What I got from BSP's answer is that we can actually fulfill at least 1 of the tasks without actually meeting them.

 

[namliaM]

Reasoning behind me sending the scout NW after initially securing Sparta....

1) it is 6 turns to unknown land towards NE, 4 to NW (or SW)
2) the food search near gems we did do already, none really there unless you count corn
3) Clear the fog for a city 1N or 2N of the current position of the lion, if there is seafood there might be a nice spot
Otherwize perhaps 1N or 1E of the deer might be a nice spot, I dont really see us going North of Corn city any time soon, while the deer spot may be in play earlier imho.

 

[haphazard1]

My take from the maintenance thread is that we do not need to know the queens to perform tasks. Whether or not any of the tasks are actually possible without knowing the queens...we won't know until we purchase the secrets. But there is no need to wait on meeting the queens before purchasing the secrets.

I would like to see no risk taken with settlers, as far as scouting/escorts go. We need to have something available to make 100% certain our settlers are safe. Losing one at this point in the game would destroy any chance of contending, and I would prefer to avoid spending the next several months playing out a game we know has no chance to contend. We may not have much chance to contend, but having the hope of it is important (at least from my point of view).

Beyond that, I prefer to focus on this turnset and move forward. As we start meeting AIs and learn whether we have copper and maybe see barb threats, then our plans may require changing anyway. So let's not try to forecast too far into the future. Things will change, we just don't know exactly how just yet.