SGOTM 22 - Anti-TSR

[LowtherCastle]

I didn't like attacking Hannibal (and somewhat Darius) because I envisioned them expanding into the useless jungle, a plus for us. I still would have pushed for Sal by land, perhaps via Darius. I was primarily concerned about Sal running away, not just techwise but also in terms of building our Aes wonders. Plus we wanted the MoM.

What I didn't know was that Zara, Gil, and Brennus were also going to run away, but iirc Zara was already spamming wonders so I think we knew that.

It's true though, the galleys gave us an instant path to Zara, so the value of coastal circumnavigation should not be underestimated.

 

[Gumbolt]

Well done on a great win. Another master class from your team.

 

[Seraiel]

Very heartly congratiulations, that you finished the game, especially as it was difficult. I'm still sorry, that I couldn't play at all and also not contribute because life simply didn't allow me. In the end, I wrote to WastinTime and I was glad to hear that ZPV joined you and that the team was doing well. I'll make sure that I don't accidentally get mentioned as a team-member in the laurels. My heartly congratiulations again to you all .

 

[LowtherCastle]

Very heartly congratiulations, that you finished the game, especially as it was difficult. I'm still sorry, that I couldn't play at all and also not contribute because life simply didn't allow me. In the end, I wrote to WastinTime and I was glad to hear that ZPV joined you and that the team was doing well. I'll make sure that I don't accidentally get mentioned as a team-member in the laurels. My heartly congratiulations again to you all .

Thanks, Seraiel. As you wish on the laurels, but I don't view it that way. Any contribution to the thread counts to the team's success in my book.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, folks, I'm out of here. I want to go before dubious ethick infects my happiness any more with condescending over-simplifications and snark. Great playing with you all. I'll check my pm occasionally and I'll also stop in to the results thread to thank AlanH and BSP.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Well done on a great win. Another master class from your team.

Thanks, Gumbolt. I was impressed by your game too. Especially your endgame. Your graphs scared me the entire way. Very well done.

 

[kossin]

Good job on finishing this scenario. I checked once in a while

 

[WastinTime]

LC kept a nice record of our entire game here

What a great captain!
I'd like to recommend a few small edits so readers don't get lost.

Instead of HC, IC, FC, spell those out: HorseCity...

Add that T105 we decided to not wait to steal Aes and just go full speed to Music to get our 7 wonders. (also note T112 Aes and T129 Music) This was a pretty important time. I'd like to know what other teams did for wonders if they missed this line.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Done! Much of the credit goes to Pollina, our real Captain.

 

[Ronnie1]

Well done folks. I am reading through the early part of your thread and have a question.

How did you determine that, "Warrior health bar shows that the strongest unit in the game is >3 strength. Looks like 5 to me, but could also be 4 or 6."

In all my years, I have never noticed anything in the health bar that I would use as a clue.

 

[Ronnie1]

.........

 

[ZPV]

The length of the health bar (if you have them turned on) depends on the strongest unit in the game. E.g Once you have tanks, a tank's health bar is normal size, and a warrior's health bar is really short, whereas the warrior's health bar was longer when you built it in 3500BC.

 

[Ronnie1]

Thank you, I will have to pay more attention to the minute details.

 

[Pangaea]

LC kept a nice record of our entire game here

What a great captain!

Thanks for an excellent overview, LC, and a heartily congratulations to the whole team for pulling off yet another great game, teaching the rest of us some lessons

Liked the bit of micro awesomeness in one of the updates, by WastinTime (apt name! ), where the GMedic got a long way thanks to chaining and an unused movement promotion, to help him move yet again after getting ashore. Many tiny details like that lead to faster finishes.

I mentioned it in the Lurker thread, but it was interesting to note, early on, WastinTime's insistence on going for the Great Wall. Not doing that, losing out on peace of mind (barbs) and Great Spy(ies) would have turned this into a very different game indeed.

 

[WastinTime]

I mentioned it in the Lurker thread, but it was interesting to note, early on, WastinTime's insistence on going for the Great Wall. Not doing that, losing out on peace of mind (barbs) and Great Spy(ies) would have turned this into a very different game indeed.

That was a long discussion. Seems like a long time ago too.
For the record, I didn't exactly insist that we get GW, but I did hold my ground pretty well. I was alone for the most part but agreed to go with the majority. However, it was my turnset, and I could not be the one that took us in the direction of skipping the GW. I offered to let someone else play those turns, but no one was available, or no one wanted to take responsibility. Eventually, the extra delay gave the team time to convince themselves to try for the GW.

Oddly, I think most of our discussion revolved around what BSP would or would not have designed the game to do. What he was thinking.
We also considered the barb defense.
I feel like we didn't even stress the best reason for GW: The GSpy. Or as you pointed out, we got 2 spies.

 

[Mitchum]

It was interesting how the decision happened and you're right, WT, it was all a big guessing game and trying to get into BSB's head. We were all gung ho about going for the GW until we found out about the super-charged AI and the fact that they all started with Masonry and could start the GW at any time and the GW was off. Then we thought that many teams didn't have an LC Sid forbid there ever be more than one! and that they wouldn't know about the AI having Masonry. BSP specifically told us about PH to get us off the Oracle trail but was silent about Masonry and the GW was on. Then Pollina shared a test game showing the GW going ridiculously early if they had access to stone and the GW was off. Then WT had the idea to DOW every AI to get them to build units instead of wonders and the GW was on. Then we discovered that all of the AI didn't start with Mysticism and if they chose to start a stone-enhanced wonder it wouldn't be SH and the GW was off. Then we discovered that a logical reason to give the AI Masonry was so that they had access to marble with the sole purpose of turbo-charging the Oracle build so the GW was on. It really was a back and forth and I found myself flip-flopping many times.

I wager that every AI has stone and that it goes before T30, and that we amass less than 50 failgold.

RE: the bet, before T30? every team? I'd take your terms and any amount you want to wager. Do you seriously expect to win that bet? Or are you just implying that you winning your bet is as impossible as me winning mine?
because I'm serious about my terms. I think I have a reasonably good chance of winning mine.

LC, it looks like you still owe WT a sammich!!

Although I missed the boat too...

Agreed. Being the only team without it would set us back a long ways. But, some of us think there is slightly less than a 0% chance of getting it.

At least I had this redeeming post:

Hmmm... this statement implies that no map maker in the whole wide world would be that evil, would they? Maybe BSP has made the GW possible by only giving the AIs marble... I can't get out of my head... or BSP's for that matter. Ignore every post of mine in the last 5 pages since they are likely circular if you read them one after the other. Ha ha...

But LC was the voice of reason on that:

I could see BSP flubbing this.

This post by LC turned everything around:

Wait a minute, are you guys saying that a pre-improved marble quarry doesn't give double hammers on Oracle without Masonry? If so, 1) I didn't think of this (Astonishing Fact #1397), and 2) that changes everything, because that would be a logical reason to give them all Masonry + marble but not stone.

So in a nutshell, it was Astonishing Fact #1397 that deserves the real credit!

 

[LowtherCastle]

I don't have a clue how I flipped my decision. I just remember that WT was dead-set in favor and I was dead-set against and then something changed. I think it was concluding that everyone else would go for it, so what the heck.

WT will get an arugula, avocado, alfalfa sprout, asparagus, and anise sandwich.

 

[Mitchum]

I don't have a clue how I flipped my decision. I just remember that WT was dead-set in favor and I was dead-set against and then something changed. I think it was concluding that everyone else would go for it, so what the heck.

I think the realization that the AIs had Masonry to give them access to their marble and speed up the Oracle (a.k.a. Astonishing Fact #1397) truly was the turning point for most of us... at least it was for me. Before that, I thought BSP wanted to take both the Oracle and the GW off the table early.

WT will get an arugula, avocado, alfalfa sprout, asparagus, and anise sandwich.

But make it a sammich per team rules.

From the Urban Dictionary:

A sammich is a type of sandwich. However, it is not just any kind of sandwich. Any old schmuck can throw lunchmeat between two slices of bread and have a sandwich.

But no. A sammich is not just a sandwich, it is not just a meal. Sammich is a term reserved for only the holiest and mightiest of all sandwiches. A sammich is a true work of culinary art; a feast on a bun, if you will. A sammich is not made of the best ingredients; it is made of the *right* ingredients. It needs the right meats, and the right cheese(s), the right sauce, the right veggies, and the right kind of bread.

Taking footlong sub bread and throwing every kind of meat and cheese and everything else under the sun or in your kitchen pantry on it does not a sammich make. It is akin to an incohesive mishmosh of colors on an artist's easel.

Sandwiches make a good snack, but sammiches are forever.

 

[BSPollux]

I think the realization that the AIs had Masonry to give them access to their marble and speed up the Oracle (a.k.a. Astonishing Fact #1397) truly was the turning point for most of us... at least it was for me. Before that, I thought BSP wanted to take both the Oracle and the GW off the table early.

I distracted them and it worked

I'm allways super nervous with things like that. I can test them quite a lot, but som etimes they just dont follow the plan. And this time I felt like I had to make sure. Therefor the overkill.

 

[Gumbolt]

If you really want to stop teams building TGW or Oracle then just forbid it in starting rules. Of course it should be used to make the ultimate game challenge harder. E.g settling 5-6 great priests in your capital. Also to spice things up.

Thankfully we didn't spot the masonry add. Seemed to pay off anyway. You would of thought we would of notice that Masonry was teched much faster this game?? Hmmmm.