SGOTM 22 - Fifth Element

enKage · Sep 23, 2015

Tested again.

I think C is the best.

Also tested whipping chains with settler. Unfortunately imperialistic trait makes it impossible to carry 100hammers cia settler, so used WB/Granary chain and separete monument whip. Together with a chop it gave great wall ca. 66 turn. It alkso means there is still a lot of time left for GLH. I didnt occur much barbs problem till that moment

Noble Zarkon · Sep 23, 2015

I'll defer to you guys on the detailed micro.

I agree re keeping one warrior scouting, IMO it was a big weakness in our last two games (FE and CGU) that we didn't scout enough.

I agree Darius is the best candidate for EP.

zbgayumn · Sep 23, 2015

enKage said:
Tested again.

I think C is the best.

Also tested whipping chains with settler. Unfortunately imperialistic trait makes it impossible to carry 100hammers cia settler, so used WB/Granary chain and separete monument whip. Together with a chop it gave great wall ca. 66 turn. It alkso means there is still a lot of time left for GLH. I didnt occur much barbs problem till that moment

Ok, I can see that it works. As for why it works - I'm still mulling over the underlying mechanics. In any case, I will use 3 turns of max hammers to get the WB out sooner.

Darius is the favorite so far for EP. Anybody have a different vote?

zbgayumn · Sep 23, 2015

PPP v1.3

T6-T18

Tech
AH T6-T12
Sailing T13-T18

Rome

Build WB T6-T15
Build Worker T16-T18

Work Pig T6-T9
Grow to Size 2 T10
Work 2 GFH T10-T12
Work Pig, GFH T13-15
Work Fish, Pig T16-T18

Units

Warriors - Explore outward up to T15
Water - Head SE, check out mountain walls
Wind - Head E, start returning to fogbust T16
Earth - Head NE, start returning to fogbust T16
Fire - Head W, start returning to fogbust T16

*If there's still a promising direction for exploration by T15, I would be in favor of keeping one warrior moving outward and building a new one to make 4 in the capital at the time of the 2nd city founding.

WB - move to Fish T15, Net T16

Other

EPs on Darius

Stopping Conditions

Horses are revealed
Anything really odd happens

enKage · Sep 23, 2015

Yep, and beware of bears

unclethrill · Sep 24, 2015

Works for me.

Noble Zarkon · Sep 24, 2015

Green from me.

zbgayumn · Sep 24, 2015

Ok, I will play tonight if I get enough time. Otherwise, tomorrow night there should be plenty of time.

zbgayumn · Sep 24, 2015

Game Save

Things went according to plan with no real surprises. That's probably good since most of the possible surprises would be bad news. :eek:

Some things that are actually noteworthy:

1. Zara was the last leader out there. His scout was also down south.
2. I found Carthage! And it's not behind mountain walls!
3. I unfogged a whole lot of empty land.
4. Buddhism went to Saladin, Hindu went to Brennus

CFC Log

Spoiler :

Buffy Log

Spoiler :

And, of course, the Screenshot Dump

Spoiler :

zbgayumn · Sep 24, 2015

According to the check in order, pigswill is up.

I think he's said he doesn't have a working copy of the game right now. If that's still the case, then it's on to enKage.

Either way, I'm done for now. :whew:

enKage · Sep 24, 2015

dont you think you should go at least till worker?

enKage · Sep 24, 2015

Some first thoughts

1) Carthage: if Hanni goes for BronzeWorking early, it opens a worker steal possibility, worker should appear soon, but we need his BW to allow him on gold tile ;/
2) Hanni starts with marble plain hill. All civs?
3) Too much exploring for now to open sea route to Hanni
4) We are limited in cities, so we must select city sites very carefully. If we need horses now, I suggest 1S of marked to have them in 1st ring. It would never be a strong city with 1 food only, but quite good HE able to work corn + horses + 2grasshills. We must use southern warrior to unfog coastal connection so wew can have horses in 2 cities soon
5) It doesnt look so bad in terms of barb protection. I think we can easily live without great wall. OTOH we can get someone to some early techsteals including HBR favoured by Hanni + Compass and so on, so GSpy can be usefull

5) Extreme gambler play: settle directly on Stone for GWall and hope noone to get 3 cities early. Gift the city after GWall is ready. The problem: If there is a leader on marble, there can be some on stone too. GWall in this case = 1 chop + 1 whip + a little

enKage · Sep 25, 2015

Some graphs reading. Xteam settled t2, so probably also coastal, but failed scouting moving to hill instead of toward coast.

All teams went AH first or in case of Xteam 1st or 2nd

Noble Zarkon · Sep 25, 2015

Good work zbg.

I agree red dot needs to be 1S, don't really like being 1 off the coast and gets horses in 1st ring.

I think we do need the Great Wall especially with a target for espionage, should we shift EPs to Hannibal? If not TGW then second city needs to be horses with the route unfogged as suggested.

I like the idea of setling on Stone building TGW and the Pyramids then giving away the city!!

zbgayumn · Sep 25, 2015

enKage said:
dont you think you should go at least till worker?

I think you just want me to get the boring turns done before your set [emoji13]

I can play 6 more turns if you really want me to.

pigswill · Sep 25, 2015

Hi chaps.

I've finally got civ reinstalled nd had a look at our game.

I'm still thinking Gwall, before first settler. We need pop4, 2 buildings/wonders and 4 units in Rome before we can settle another city iirc. If we wait to get that lot together we're very likely to miss Gwall.

No doubt some of us will have reservations about GSpy. In this set up I reckon the main use for GSpy is as an invulnerable scout, ignored by barbarians , which ignores cultural borders and lasts indefinitely until we use it for something else (infilitrate, settle or GA).

Maybe I'll have a go at testing.

zbgayumn · Sep 25, 2015

It's Monarch. GWALL will be available at T50, and beyond. I've built it in one test, and that was late - like T65 late.

enKage · Sep 25, 2015

I got 66 in test before stone. Didn't ru stone test. With 1 city and no chops Gwall is a nightmare and will take 15 or more turns plus growing.

If Ai is settled on stone we will lose gwall anyway.

Note one thing. If we want gwall by settling on stone and find no copper after BW we are forced into archery. Not a big deal as this tech will be extremely cheap

zbgayumn · Sep 25, 2015

NobleZarkon said:
I like the idea of setling on Stone building TGW and the Pyramids then giving away the city!!

~~That's 7 tiles of road to put down, and then we have to protect it from pillaging...~~ (I realized I'm probably looking at a different Stone than you are)

I have serious doubts about the value of settling a city only to gift it away. Late in the game, it's fine, but this early it would be a huge setback.

Mids would be really nice, but I think there's a decent chance we could put our 3rd city on or next to the Stone and still get it.

enKage · Sep 25, 2015

I thought about southern one to have it instantly connected and not tio allow AI have too much of it.

We are imperialistic, so gifting a city is not a big problem. The problem is rather gather 4 archers before we settle #3 (=#2)

We can count GWall w/o Stone around t65. If we go for stone, it can come around t50 (We need a whip or rather whip chain + 1 chop only. The obvious whip overflow chain is WB -> Granary -> Gwall and we are able to do it in few turns. I can risk saying we can get GWall pre t50 with 1 chop

EDIT
WB --> worker --> GWall can be even better because maybe we will have to daley pottery in favour of archery

Any updated test to check it?

SGOTM 22 - Fifth Element

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