SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
, looks like barbs start to streaming around 1700BC but only warriors, hmm what else well i add screen when i reach alpha want to check where ais are as far as tech race goes.
elitetroops
Deity
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- Dec 23, 2012
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Can't look at test game myself now. You should check in worldbuilder that barbs start with archery. Only barb warriors sounds odd. Also, do all the Ai in testgame start with PH?
And we start with hunting in real game. This tech should be added in testgame as well.
And we start with hunting in real game. This tech should be added in testgame as well.
No ais didnt start with PH in this test game, and yea i was surprised that only barb warriors was streaming around but overall this is monarch i dont know do barbs start with archery on monarch and admins didnt write about barbs starting techs so... maybe we should ask do barbs start with archery if not things are more easier i think.
elitetroops
Deity
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I don't think they would answer this question. That is for us to find out. It was also mentioned ai have significant bonuses, including PH, so they probably have some other techs as well. For now we should in any case assume barbs start with archery and add it in testgame if it isn't there.
I updated the test game by giving the AI priesthood. I also gave us hunting.
I checked, the barbs did/do have archery.
I checked, the barbs did/do have archery.
I check it, barbs start with archery in test game ( but there was no problem with defending)
I added PH and Mansonry to Ais ( dont know witch other techs they can have ...) and things looks like this.
edit:
acctualy barbs are pain in ass, barb archers start to streaming to our teritory when i was bulding oracle ( i oracle currancy btw)
In general this kind of start looks good to me tech path producion etc etc..
Would be nice if you guys play this test too and and i dont know maybe you would find something what i missed or maybe new ideas, maybe better to play it totaly diferent i dont know like i mentioned this looks good to me.
1 war we can start when we have 4 citeis i dont think that bulding troops in capitol is good thing ( maybe few) so at lest 3 cities to prduce army with baraks grenaries and yea, thats what iam thiking about it cheers.
I added PH and Mansonry to Ais ( dont know witch other techs they can have ...) and things looks like this.
Spoiler :
edit:
acctualy barbs are pain in ass, barb archers start to streaming to our teritory when i was bulding oracle ( i oracle currancy btw)
In general this kind of start looks good to me tech path producion etc etc..
Would be nice if you guys play this test too and and i dont know maybe you would find something what i missed or maybe new ideas, maybe better to play it totaly diferent i dont know like i mentioned this looks good to me.
1 war we can start when we have 4 citeis i dont think that bulding troops in capitol is good thing ( maybe few) so at lest 3 cities to prduce army with baraks grenaries and yea, thats what iam thiking about it cheers.
yyeah, can you go into your game options and check the box for "detailed city information"? It helps me get more info from your screenshots.
Thanks
Thanks
I probably won't play the test until we get a few turns into the real game. The map will be a huge factor in determining if we build the GW and what tech path we take. Considering our limitation on settling cities, we may want to spread them out a bit to minimize overlap and to choose the best city sites. This will make defense against barbs a huge pain.
Sure shulec i did it, to be honest this helps me a lot too i was looking for it but didnt know where i can turn it on 
. And yea totaly agree with you about this city placment this was just a test wanted to see how fast we can get like 3 cites or 4 cities this 1st city in right is a crap to be honest.
. And yea totaly agree with you about this city placment this was just a test wanted to see how fast we can get like 3 cites or 4 cities this 1st city in right is a crap to be honest.
Sure shulec i did it, to be honest this helps me a lot too i was looking for it but didnt know where i can turn it on
Cool.
Regarding city overlap, it may not be a bad thing after all. It is unlikely that our non-capitol cities will be more than 9-10 pop. Overlap can allow Rome's cottages (if we build them) to be grown by neighboring cities. If there are not good food tiles, we can overlap the high food tiles for regrowing after whips. Again, it depends on the map.
Just back from work. I have actioned your email Shulec. See what response we get. Can you email Soundjata and try and convince him buffy works on 8.1? He is a free player who could be useful. Looks like 2 of our team will be limited for time. An extra player would be helpful here. No sign of Packers yet.
Main issue with bunched up cities early on is it limits the land we can control.Helper cities for cottages is useful. Although it limits Romes ultimate size and the number of cities we can then build. Capital size determines the size of our empire.
It's one of the cruel things about this start if you go the cottage route and share 1-2 cities with capital you then have 3 cities pretty much sharing 1 food resource. So if we later on decide to whip an army we will really struggle. It may be we rely on Rome with it's mines to build our armies.
Of course we can't cherry pick city sites 6-7 tiles apart. I think we should explore more before we decide on cottage route.
It will be interesting to see what the Ai do with PH. Will they build the oracle ASAP? In previous games BSP gave the Ai free worked resources. They may start with free worked resources or a worker. We can look at demographics on T1 and see the production and food each AI has. At present we are 8-9 turns too early to test any meaningful game info. Sure barb dates maybe. Wonder dates will be tougher till we can judge what bonuses they have. Lots to think about here.
We can think of overall strategies too.
Main issue with bunched up cities early on is it limits the land we can control.Helper cities for cottages is useful. Although it limits Romes ultimate size and the number of cities we can then build. Capital size determines the size of our empire.
It's one of the cruel things about this start if you go the cottage route and share 1-2 cities with capital you then have 3 cities pretty much sharing 1 food resource. So if we later on decide to whip an army we will really struggle. It may be we rely on Rome with it's mines to build our armies.
Of course we can't cherry pick city sites 6-7 tiles apart. I think we should explore more before we decide on cottage route.
It will be interesting to see what the Ai do with PH. Will they build the oracle ASAP? In previous games BSP gave the Ai free worked resources. They may start with free worked resources or a worker. We can look at demographics on T1 and see the production and food each AI has. At present we are 8-9 turns too early to test any meaningful game info. Sure barb dates maybe. Wonder dates will be tougher till we can judge what bonuses they have. Lots to think about here.
We can think of overall strategies too.
Yea we can think about economy, should we go cottage route or not. You know iam preety sure that we can own this map without single cottage and without like strong eco, this is monarch.
Alternative could be mids rep and settling this guys in cap ( parthenon and pacifism,forum), but then we wont have too many GA, allso we dont know how many turns this game can take ( how many gps can born in this time ) in otherhand like some1 mentioned, if this map is beatable without going past like engi and maces how spacerace can be competitive maybe only for ais..
Alternative could be mids rep and settling this guys in cap ( parthenon and pacifism,forum), but then we wont have too many GA, allso we dont know how many turns this game can take ( how many gps can born in this time ) in otherhand like some1 mentioned, if this map is beatable without going past like engi and maces how spacerace can be competitive maybe only for ais..
My thinking is if this game is a pangea map then we can probably roll over map with 2mp land units. May even be able to use chariots from T1 to pin down the AI. My guess is the ai have had a lot of help. I still remember the old SGOTM where PR tried to HA rush the Mongols. We arrived atthe Mongols with 11-12 HA. Mongols had a mini stack and a lot of spears. Took us a huge war to beat them down. TSR had used 1-2 chariots early on and pinned them down to a few cities.
I can almost guarantee that this will be a builder game. I think early rushes will not be feasible due AI gifts from BSPollux.
I see six cities emphasizing specialization.
1. Food Capitol/Wonder/GP farm
2. Cottage, Oxford
3. HE, unit city
4. Hybrid/resource aquisition city/coastal city
5. AI Capitol - hybrid/Holy city
6. Barb City - hybrid
6 cities are the magic number to unlock National Wonders. Pop 12 in Rome is probably the sweet spot pre-Biology.
Again, this is mainly map dependent. If we can kill everybody without needing advanced units, then Oxford and biology aren't needed.
I see six cities emphasizing specialization.
1. Food Capitol/Wonder/GP farm
2. Cottage, Oxford
3. HE, unit city
4. Hybrid/resource aquisition city/coastal city
5. AI Capitol - hybrid/Holy city
6. Barb City - hybrid
6 cities are the magic number to unlock National Wonders. Pop 12 in Rome is probably the sweet spot pre-Biology.
Again, this is mainly map dependent. If we can kill everybody without needing advanced units, then Oxford and biology aren't needed.
What is clear is the first tech we need. AH. while doing this we can scout a bit. I think SIP looks good. We can then look at the game in more detail with a live save. If we need to travel by sea a coastal city here will be important early on.
Six cities on monarch will be sweet. Whatever we do early on we need to be flexible.
We should hopefully see what changes BSP has made to the Ai when we meet them. E.g. started them all with 3-4 spears. He won't want the Ai to be killed off by barbs. I suspect none of the AI cities will be pre settled.
All we can do is play what we see. At present we have a lot of grassland river that can be used. We still lack happiness. We do have some good production. Just lack food resources for heavy whiping early.
I may have a bash at test save tomorrow before I head off for the weekend. Bit tired tonight.
If Ai having PH does not make them rush for Oracle an early monarchy grab may not be bad here. Big risk though given all the Ai likely help.
Six cities on monarch will be sweet. Whatever we do early on we need to be flexible.
We should hopefully see what changes BSP has made to the Ai when we meet them. E.g. started them all with 3-4 spears. He won't want the Ai to be killed off by barbs. I suspect none of the AI cities will be pre settled.
All we can do is play what we see. At present we have a lot of grassland river that can be used. We still lack happiness. We do have some good production. Just lack food resources for heavy whiping early.
I may have a bash at test save tomorrow before I head off for the weekend. Bit tired tonight.
If Ai having PH does not make them rush for Oracle an early monarchy grab may not be bad here. Big risk though given all the Ai likely help.
Packers5280
Deity
Alright, checking in. Looks like everyone else beat me. Just checked and no issues with BUFFY and windows 10.
I think oracling Monarchy would be a great move. It provides a lot of happy between the wine, trading for resources with wine, and HR is good for growing quickly. Would be pretty sweet to get an early size 20 capital. If we go conquest we will have to raze a lot before biology. Maybe if we lib it? Only better tech to oracle would be CS. This spot is an ideal Bur capital, and we probably don't want to whip it all. Which would make BW lower in value.
Also raging barbs can actually be tricky even with it only being monarch. And I would guess that there is a lot of open land around us plenty for barbs to spawn, and we would be the only civ in the area. Even with good spawnbusting, all it takes is an archer to get a lucky role and a beeline for the capital to blow our game.
I think oracling Monarchy would be a great move. It provides a lot of happy between the wine, trading for resources with wine, and HR is good for growing quickly. Would be pretty sweet to get an early size 20 capital. If we go conquest we will have to raze a lot before biology. Maybe if we lib it? Only better tech to oracle would be CS. This spot is an ideal Bur capital, and we probably don't want to whip it all. Which would make BW lower in value.
Also raging barbs can actually be tricky even with it only being monarch. And I would guess that there is a lot of open land around us plenty for barbs to spawn, and we would be the only civ in the area. Even with good spawnbusting, all it takes is an archer to get a lucky role and a beeline for the capital to blow our game.
Welcome back Packers. I think we need to keep an open mind till we have some more map info. For first 5 turns we can deselect the tech. So no real choice apart from worker and capital location for first 4-5 turns. Some testing once we have map info would be great. I would assume the barbs will have at least archery knowing BSP. He would not give us 4 warriors for no reason.
I am not a big fan of Oracling monarchy for a few reasons:
1. AI love to tech monarchy and will almost always trade it.
2. I prefer to take a tech that will be good trade bait - alpha, CoL, currency. I don't want to give the AI a shortcut to longbows.
Oracling CS would be awesome, but difficult since all AI start with PH, I doubt it will be available that long. Even it were, we would have to start cottaging right away, plus get the GW.
More expected mapmaker evil: early wonders already built in AI or barb pre-settled capitols.
Edit: one more thing... Go Bears!!!
One thing I like to do on test games is drop a great spy in each Ai capital. We can then see if they tech directly for monarchy given they all start with PH. Your logic on Oracle is sound. Assuming it's even possible to get the oracle on this map. Alphabet would open up tech trading assuming we have Ai to trade techs with.
At present this is all guess work till we see the live save. We have no commerce resources here and maybe this is part of the reason we are on Monarch level. Lower difficulty but other challenges to keep the map fun.
Once we settle the capital we can place it directly where it should be on map with x, y coordinates. This will improve the test game.
A small note on spreadsheets. We as a team have never really used them for the overall game. Sometimes we use them for city micro early turns. The nice thing about fewer cities means we can focus a bit more on early micro and hopefully have quicker turns. No replies back on my emails yet!
Any other ideas for new team members?? 1-2 more would really help to keep this team going. I think as long as we have 3-4 active players most of the time we will be fine.
At present this is all guess work till we see the live save. We have no commerce resources here and maybe this is part of the reason we are on Monarch level. Lower difficulty but other challenges to keep the map fun.
Once we settle the capital we can place it directly where it should be on map with x, y coordinates. This will improve the test game.
A small note on spreadsheets. We as a team have never really used them for the overall game. Sometimes we use them for city micro early turns. The nice thing about fewer cities means we can focus a bit more on early micro and hopefully have quicker turns. No replies back on my emails yet!
Any other ideas for new team members?? 1-2 more would really help to keep this team going. I think as long as we have 3-4 active players most of the time we will be fine.
Packers5280
Deity
Shulec you are right. I guess I didn't think about if the AIs have Ph, they can go after monarchy right away. So we could easily trade for it quick enough.
And its a rebuilding year for the bears. Rough year incoming.
And its a rebuilding year for the bears. Rough year incoming.
