SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[elitetroops]

Of course we would, but how fast can we get an AI capitol as 5th city? If we go iron, we could attack with praets and pults. yyeah said 5 pults and 5 praets by 400AD, I assume the stack was still in our lands, so still a long walk from an AI capital. And that stack is not necessarily enough to conquer a capitol at that time. Rome could easily be pop 12 by the time we're in position to conquer some good city.

But yes, we need good cities somehow. The current ones are no good for building an army fast. I really don't like this scenario. If there's gonna be a restriction on how many cities to settle, at least there should be some city spots you want to settle.

 

[yyeah]

Looks like we have to settle this 5th city, i dont like it but we need phants, i dont think that we can do it only with prets. I meen we can but for what price ?.
I rather to settle this spot what shulec is talking about, maybe we will manage to steal tons of workers and develop this land in a "decent" time.

In normal game i sometimes settle this kind of spots if theres no other land, but in standard game at this point i have 6 cities and 6 workers or something like that here things are more complicated.

But i still think that we should settle Iron 1st.
I know elitetroops that for our economy probably better is to settle ivory 1st, but i just dont see this without metal.

 

[shulec]

Looks like we have to settle this 5th city, i dont like it but we need phants, i dont think that we can do it only with prets. I meen we can but for what price ?.
I rather to settle this spot what shulec is talking about, maybe we will manage to steal tons of workers and develop this land in a "decent" time.

In normal game i sometimes settle this kind of spots if theres no other land, but in standard game at this point i have 6 cities and 6 workers or something like that here things are more complicated.

But i still think that we should settle Iron 1st.
I know elitetroops that for our economy probably better is to settle ivory 1st, but i just dont see this without metal.

Why do we need elephants? We can get happiness elsewhere and spears are a cheaper counter than elephants. Axes will not be the garrisoned in large numbers.

 

[Gumbolt]

Were going round in circles here.

If we do settle a 5th city we still face same issues. We could have 3 Ai throwing units at us every 5-10 turns. Better to build up units to attack. At present there is little or no way Darius will ever offer peace here unless he starts losing a lot of combats.

Shulec is right on spears. These should easily counter HA. Not all the Ai have horse.

At some point we have to start chopping and whipping a decent stack. TSR are already building up a stack. The longer we wait the stronger the Ai will become. We can get lvl 3 spears already? (2+3)

If we have to wait for city 5 land to be prepared we could be waiting for many turns. It's such a long way off and would need many workers.

The cow city would make a better city as more green land. Big danger if Brennus is coming for us.

 

[yyeah]

Why do we need elephants? We can get happiness elsewhere and spears are a cheaper counter than elephants. Axes will not be the garrisoned in large numbers.

Defence against x-bows,phants at point when we can lunch attack probablyh some1 will be close to x-bows. And we's will be usefull long time. But maybe we can conquer city with phants ...

If we have to wait for city 5 land to be prepared we could be waiting for many turns. It's such a long way off and would need many workers.

Iam not saying that we should wait for 5th city. We need to bulid up stack ealier and maybe attack with prets and cats but probably as game progress we will need/settle that phants anyway .

 

[Gumbolt]

Yep we can't defend against all AI units on 2nd/3rd war. First war Praets, spears and pults should do. I doubt machinery will arrive that early.

 

[shulec]

OK Gumby, I think it's time for a pre play plan. Give us your best plan and we'll give feedback.

 

[Gumbolt]

Will have to be tomorrow now. I keep falling asleep here. I really wanted to test a bit more here.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay thoughts. Biggest delay to 4th city is archers/chariots and question over where they will be needed pending on Ai stacks.

Capital - Library - Settler - archer - archer. Settler would be ready to settle iron around 150bc to include fish/deer and iron.

Horse - Granary/archer/whip chariot.

Fish - Finish worker/ archer/granary. If we want to connect the iron with road then suggest worker first. You can't wait 7 turns for the iron worker.

Fish worker - West and chop then towards iron city.

Worker near horse - 1 turn chop W. 1 turn chop NW. Farm 2 east of Rome. Head back to chop forest near Horse

Exploring warrior - Head towards cow site and try to scout. Not too worried if he dies. (Try to keep him alive.)

Great Spy. Explore more north for other stacks? Or head towards Sal??

Move fish archer to Rome.

Science at 0% for 4-5 turns. Consider alphabet after.

Biggest risks for this next few turns are.
1- Where Persian stack shows up.
2. If Brennus or Zara stacks appear.

 

[Gumbolt]

If we want a 5th city perhaps better for horse worker to build 2 farms? We already have 5 buildings. We could easily build 10 archers in time. So growth would be biggest issue.

I really don't see mine in Horse city being greatly important for 1 additional hammer. We could chop forest NW of horse, Then head for both farms. We may need the archers asap if Brennus arrives.

 

[elitetroops]

I'd do

Capital: library-settler-archer-archer
Fish: Worker-archer-granary
Horse: Granary-archer (finish with chop)-chariot (1 pop after 1 turns hammers into it)-chariot-then maybe barracks or something

Rather 1 pop horse than work 1f2h tile. They'll be back at pop 3 before we have improvements in place.

Horse worker chops forest 1W of horse (already 1 turn prechopped), next turn 1NW and one turn prechop, then build farm 2E of capital.

Fish worker chops 1W of city, runs away if necessary. Should have time to finish before Darius' ministack shows up. Then heads to iron with settler.

One of the current archers in fish will have to head to capital for settling 4th city, 2 stay guard.

 

[Gumbolt]

Well I considered granary archer but my only fear is when or where Brennus might pop up. If we intend to do a whip then certainly granary first. The city was never likely to grow beyond pop 3.

Worker first in fish seems sensible. I really see no value in delaying worker especially if we want to settle for fish/deer/iron site. I was short on archers in my test game. We can leave our options open in 6-7 turns.

I assume you intend to finish horse chop by returning worker from the farm?

I can send the fish worker west to chop. I only skipped this on plan due to worry about Darius stack. Not sure where his roaming spear is. Hopefully barbs will attack his stack too. Would take 6 turns to chop that forest. You said his stack was 5 turns off?

 

[Gumbolt]

There is a small risk Darius stack could head direct for Rome? How clever is the AI? Should we track his stack?

Oh Workboat at bottom of map can scout Brennus coast back to our land.

Edit! Brennus is pleased with Sumerian. He does not attack at pleased. We are 99% likely to be his target.

 

[elitetroops]

Why this talk about delaying worker in fish??? Shulec's wish to delay it was a long time ago when fish was still at pop 2. Definitely finish it now, no question about it.

Granary in horse is done in 2 turns when chop comes in. Archer is built next turn with overflow. If Brennus shows up before that, you can change granary to archer for the chop and get archer one turn earlier, no way to get archer any earlier than that. Anyway, he hasn't been plotting long enough to get a stack over here yet, I think.

Think I miscounted Darius' stack movement with one turn, you're right, he would be able to snipe worker with immortal same turn chop finishes. So maybe better to do something else.

If Darius heads for Rome, we'll know in time and can relocate archers. He'd be facing 60% cultural defenses across river, so not very worried about that.

 

[Gumbolt]

I already edited up plan in bold! Worker first in fish.

Now I understand your chop plan in horse. You planned to chop the forest then head NW 1 turn chop and on to farm.

We could chop the forest 3s1w of Rome? Would likely not get full hammer but would speed up settler? Or hammers into an Archer to defend Rome?

Let me test plan on test game.

 

[yyeah]

Edit! Brennus is pleased with Sumerian. He does not attack at pleased. We are 99% likely to be his target.

Was he pleased with him when he starts plotting ?.

 

[Gumbolt]

Was he pleased with him when he starts plotting ?.

Likely yes! At 600bc he was pleased with Brennus and Brennus with him. I doubt much changed in 6 turns. If anything the happiness increased over the 6 turns.

575bc Gilga adopted Brennus religion.

 

[yyeah]

So yea probably hes plotting against us.
Hes looking like a good target if we wipe hes stack it will be easier to take him out. But Brennus is a huge unit spammer its monarch but anyway he showns up with more untis then Darius.

 

[Gumbolt]

Well if we whip a chariot it can head his way? It's a shame we don't know date he started to plot. Best case scenario we settle Iron city and can send 4-5 archers to horse city ready for his stack. I fear that is many turns off.

I can also try to send the scouting warrior closer to Brennus if it can avoid barbs.

Of course Brennus could still attack Sal or Darius??

I think for now plan ignoring him completely. We have no units to fend off a decent stack in Horse anyway.

 

[yyeah]

Of course Brennus could still attack Sal or Darius??

Depends where Darius is but iam 99% sure that he dontgo against them becouse we are on hes way. Even if he didnt like them they are on other side of continent.
I like chariot plan we need scounting to figured out what are we facing.