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SGOTM 22 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I did the AGR first test in the original test game, so the extra beakers have to be due to meeting more leaders.
    That you only met Saladin does not surprise me. Even though I generated a pangea the map it might also be called a snaky continent. This makes Saladin the "gateway" to the rest of the map. I figured as we explore and meet people in the real game I could adjust this map. Otherwise if you want I could change the map.

    Looks like we build the WB, worker and GW in the same way. When I start the worker I change 1 forested hill to pig and next turn I work fish and pig until worker built. Pigs and fish till pop 5 then only fish.

    Neil, I did a test game with new file and had about the same beakers in writing as you did I finished GW in 2080 (no starving) with 113 beakers in writing. At 2120bc I have 97 beakers in writing.
     
  2. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    I did the same when building the worker. If we work the Pigs instead of Fish at pop 5 we lose 4 beakers but gain enough food to switch Pigs to GH 1t earlier which means finishing GW 2120, with 93 beakers in Writing.

    OK, I think we have enough testing.

    Unless anyone objects, I will play out this opening.
     
  3. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Oh dear, I just realised I managed to reverse the coordinates....
    :cry: really sorry

    x=24, y=12.
     
  4. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    No problem. I will just make up a new map. In addition to Saladin, should I have few more AI's that we can "quickly" contacted?

    Neil, I vote you play it.

    Post a screen shot or 2 and I will incorporate that in the new map based on the (24,12) coordinates and any information on any AI that contacts you.
     
  5. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    No need for additional AI's, I was just trying to understand why my test results didnt match yours.

    Will wait longer to allow the rest of the team to object before playing of course.
     
  6. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    y=12 is close to the bottom of the map Saladin must be freezing his ass off having settled on a glacier.
     
  7. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Good capital location guys. I am not sure if avoiding BW is such a great idea. I am off to see what are the fine points of the MP's are.
     
  8. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  9. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    The last tech path neil and I tried was:
    Agriculture->Masonry->Animal Husbandry->Wheel->Pottery->Writing
    Agr is an alternate prerequisite for AH and Pottery so knowing it means we generate 2-3 beakers more per turn while learning those 2 techs.
     
  10. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    I got carried away with testing a different path last night. Then got tired since I have been training myself to go to bed before 12AM, so I went to sleep.
     
  11. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Problem with going BW is that city 2 is delayed until we have 4 archers/axemen/chariots.
     
  12. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    I tested going for second city from the get go with a monument as the second build.
    It was touch and go with the completion of the GW. I got it each time, but it was in 18XXBC and Barbs were coming in already. The second building was the biggest issue.
     
  13. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    No, I had the second city much sooner before BW.

    EDIT: I just realized my ini file is a very short document and there is no way to set up autosaves to every turn.

    This is all it has.

    Spoiler :
    [CONFIG]

    ; Allow Camera Flying
    AllowFlying = 0

    ; Dont show the game background during movies - may speed up movie playing
    HideMovieBackground = 0

    ; Enable Trilinear Filtering for the Minimap
    MinimapTrilinearFilter = 1

    ; A non-zero value overrides the FIELD_OF_VIEW parameter from GlobalDefines.xml
    FIELD_OF_VIEW = 0

    ; Enable Tree Region Cutting
    CutTrees = 1

    The file was created today.
     
  14. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    :hmm: No early Archery? What if we lose Great Wall? :cry:
     
  15. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Why agriculture first?
     
  16. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    After running bunch of different tests. I highly recommend that we do the following.

    First tech=Masonry
    First build=WB

    At size two work 2 grassy forested hills to complete the WB.

    Second tech=AH and then head toward Pottery after Archery if we do not see horses.
    Second Build= GW while working food tiles to grow the city to size 4

    At size 4 work 3 forested hills and the fish.

    Third Build = Settler, we should have size 5 capital by now.

    Settle city two (1880 BC, T53) and start warriors.

    Fourth Build = who knows? It should be a worker or a building.

    This will assure that we will have GW as our second building for the second city to be establish.
     
  17. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Htadus, using the tech path Agri -> Masonry -> AH means that when we research AH we know 2 of its prerequisite techs (Agri & Hunting). Knowing the extra prerequisite tech means we get 20% extra beakers when researching AH.

    In my tests I just finish the settler in 1880 BC and assuming no barbarian dodging it takes 3 turns to settle on a hill to claim river wines, ivory and bananas. However, in 1880 BC, I have a worker and you are 3 turns away from building a worker plus I have a mined hill (4 turns) and have pastured the pigs (4 turns) plus the mined hill has been worked and generating an extra hammer and beaker since 2640BC.

    Leif, if we lose the GW it will be around 2200BC when we are researching writing, at that point we could switch to archery (5 turns to learn) while building a granary (6 turns to build). There are other alternatives and at that point we would have more information (e.g have we found horses) so it is hard to say what we would do.
     
  18. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Waiting to learn a tech until we need is not the way to go, I believe in my test, I had 1 turn left to complete BW. Any tech we learn, should be a tech we need, filling in techs does not take that much time. BTW, lets put all our espy on Sal.
     
  19. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I do like the fact that by not building a worker and going WB-> GW on the test I just finished; GW was built and I started building a settler at 2240BC. The earliest I saw the AI finish GW was 2200BC, so using your way of building I would not have lost out to AI the few times I did.

    I am switching my vote to we go WB->GW and start by researching Masonry. Now we just need to settle on the rest of the techs to study while building the GW and since seeing if we have horses and where they are we probably should limit the discussion to: Masonry->AH vs Masonry->Agri->AH
    Learning Agri will give our future worker(s) something to do besides waiting for us to learn Monarchy to be able to build a winery, or Calender to build plantations.
     
  20. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    I do not countenance having 2 cities before we build a worker. It doesn't make any sense to me. I will put up a test save that best represents this run, but only for comparison.

    I am not so fixed on Agr first, as it made no difference to the GW build time (2120 or t47) but it did result in saving quite a few beakers.

    The real choice here is do we:
    1) go WB->Worker->GW->Settler and risk that someone else builds GW before us, or
    not and build GW direct saving 4 turns, which itself has 2 sub-choices:
    2) go WB->GW->Worker->Settler,
    3) go WB->GW->Settler->Worker,

    In all the runs we get the same techs, but in slightly different orders. I am not arguing for Granary after the first 4 builds, it is there solely for comparison.

    Comparing the runs directly:

    1) WB->Worker->GW->Settler
    Worker (3000bc, t25)
    GW (2120bc, t47)
    Settler (1880bc, t53), settled 1800bc, t55
    Caput Mundi is working Pigs, Fish, Mine, Cottage & Farm, all improved. There is a road between the 2 cities.
    We are 9 beakers from getting the last tech.
    26/60 hammers into Granary (this could have been half another worker!)
    21/30 food in storage
    City 2 has 2 food in storage & 1 hammers into whatever, our worker is already improving tiles for City 2

    2) WB->GW->Worker->Settler
    GW (2280bc, t43)
    Worker (2040bc, t49)
    Settler (1760bc, t56)
    Caput Mundi is working improved Pigs & Fish, and 3 unimproved GH's. There are no roads.
    We are 77 beakers from the last tech
    0/60 hammers into Granary (though we have 4 o/f hammers going into it)
    4/30 food in storage
    City 2 still 2 turns from being settled

    3) WB->GW->Settler->Worker
    GW (2280bc, t43)
    Settler (2000bc, t50), settled 1880bc, t53
    Worker (1760bc, t56)
    Caput Mundi is working Fish, and 4 unimproved GH's. There are no roads, our only worker will not start to pasture the pigs until next turn.
    We are 79 beakers from the last tech
    0/60 hammers into Granary (0 o/f hammers )
    4/30 food in storage
    City 2 has 6 food in storage & 3 hammers into whatever.

    So, am I happy to risk ALL by delaying GW by 4 turns and get ourselves into a potentially winning position: YES
    Comparing the 3 runs there is no comparison which is best...... assuming we get GW of course


    I stopped at 1760bc as this is the date the first 4 builds are finished in all variants, but the differences between the saves will only get starker if I went further as there is a huge difference in improved tiles already.


    *NOTE* All dates are when the city can start the next thing. So if GW finished 2280bc this means that this is the turn we started the settler/worker. Settler finished means it can move on that date.
     

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