SGOTM 22 - Xteam

[Htadus]

If we are going to gift Rome, should we whip a granary, as planned, or try and produce as many archers as possible by whipping and chopping?It would depend on how much time we have to recover the granary hammers. Remember that any building we build in the city survives gifting process. We do not want to help Sal, we want to help our selves to his techs.

Currently, our 4 EPs/turn go into 4 AIs should we put all 4 into Saladin? Or any other AI we want to gift the city. But right now it sure look like Sal.

For what it is worth, here are the techs (@1480bc) the AI's know in the test game that we do not.

Saladin, Brennus, & Zara Yaqob
MYSTICISM
POLYTHEISM
PRIESTHOOD

Gilhamesh & Hannibal
PRIESTHOOD
IRON_WORKING

Darius I
PRIESTHOOD

Note: In the real game Saladin has adopted OR & HR so he also knows Monotheism & Monarchy. Also, with the GLH we have an 80% chance of getting a great spy.

Sadly only real usefulness of test games is to workout our own MM. Everything else is just luck unless we can duplicate AI territory accurately. And your observation in regards to real game sal's tech rate clearly shows he has been given some goodies and he is a run a way AI. I hope we can gift the city to him.

We really need to locate some of these AI cities to get a good idea as to know what they are capable of doing. Say that we can observe sals workers are chopping a jungle and we have gifted him the city, then our next tech after Writing should be Alpha instead of IW. That is the right way to piggy back.

Any ways I am not sure if I will have time to comment (and cause problems . ) until next weekend again, so good luck.

Oh that reminds me, Joe, please do not think that I am not appreciative of what you did during your set. You did a good job.

But we as a team should have clear communication. So before any of us play, lets give a warning.....for example...."If you guys have no questions about the plan I made, I am going to play in n hours" Well we do have until next year to finish this game.

Next player, see if we can find the AI. North for sure (not really) but for east and west? Who knows.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I agree we play up to writing and then we can discuss gifting options more closely.

Since how we use Rome in the next 14 turns depends on whether or not we are gifting it, we should take a decision before going forward.

In a brief test game, I chopped 3 Rome hills and whipped Rome 3 times by 950bc when I gifted it to Saladin. In that time Rome built 5 Archers and a Settler. Also, Caput finished the GLH in 975bc.

We learned writing in 1120BC which is when I whipped the settler and delayed gifting to abuse Rome more (1 extra chop & whip). Maybe if I let Rome work the Pig I could whip it one more time before gifting it away. Further, as Htadus said, we probably want Alpha instead of IW. With that in mind, I started a road to the copper.

 

[leif erikson]

We really need to locate some of these AI cities to get a good idea as to know what they are capable of doing. Say that we can observe sals workers are chopping a jungle and we have gifted him the city, then our next tech after Writing should be Alpha instead of IW. That is the right way to piggy back.

I'm not so sure I am on this band wagon.

We need Iron Working sooner than it will take to research Alphabet, gain enough Espy points to steal anything, build a Spy and get him into the city and wait 5-turns for the price to come down on the Spy mission, etc.......

 

[neilmeister]

Since how we use Rome in the next 14 turns depends on whether or not we are gifting it, we should take a decision before going forward.

In a brief test game, I chopped 3 Rome hills and whipped Rome 3 times by 950bc when I gifted it to Saladin. In that time Rome built 5 Archers and a Settler. Also, Caput finished the GLH in 975bc.

We learned writing in 1120BC which is when I whipped the settler and delayed gifting to abuse Rome more (1 extra chop & whip). Maybe if I let Rome work the Pig I could whip it one more time before gifting it away. Further, as Htadus said, we probably want Alpha instead of IW. With that in mind, I started a road to the copper.

This sounds like a plan, except for the last part about roading to Copper. We have enough workers to chop/mine GLH and Romes forests, but not to start a road we may not want/need.

I agree with leif that IW would seem a higher priority than Alpha, but that decision can wait for after Writing.

Don't forget the trick of Mining a forest directly (7t) instead of chopping & mining, this helped me in one of my test games as I wanted to keep the forest for as long as possible for the hammers. Please try to work the cottages as well.

 

[leif erikson]

Agree with neil.

 

[Jersey Joe]

This sounds like a plan, except for the last part about roading to Copper. We have enough workers to chop/mine GLH and Romes forests, but not to start a road we may not want/need.

I agree with leif that IW would seem a higher priority than Alpha, but that decision can wait for after Writing.

Don't forget the trick of Mining a forest directly (7t) instead of chopping & mining, this helped me in one of my test games as I wanted to keep the forest for as long as possible for the hammers. Please try to work the cottages as well.

I had 3 workers and in 975bc, 1 was finishing a chop in Rome, 1 was mining a hill for Caput, and the third started the road to the copper. Since we only have 1 city after the gift we are ready to settle we only need a spot. I figure the copper is a good thing to secure since we some muscle to clear barbarian towns that are preventing us from settle other resources. My MM was a little sloppy. I dropped the research slider to 0 for 1 turn and then had it at 100 for the rest of the time.

I am going to run some tests out to about 300bc. Teching Writing->IW vs Writing->Alpha and settle copper and gems (maybe N of capital in jungle instead)

 

[Folket]

Of Course shrines are world wonders. And the plan with religions is to gift cities after we whip them to crap so we ensure the religion is founded correctly. IF we let the ai keep a crap city close to pur other cities we can use IT to gift the other cities. This can be repeated several times to reset whiping anger.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

 

[leif erikson]

Where are we here? We need to move this along...

What issues do you need assistance with Joe?

 

[Jersey Joe]

Where are we here? We need to move this along...

What issues do you need assistance with Joe?

Are we in agreement to gift Rome? How Rome is worked depends on the answer. Given that answer I could post a plan for 1480bc to 1120bc when writing is learned.

Also, is Writing the next tech we learn?

Should we allocate all 4 EP to Saladin or some other allocation?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Good questions, Joe.

Other opinions are needed before you continue, but I would opt for Writing, all points on Sal, and whipping/chopping archers out of Rome before gifting (but that's probably because I don't appreciate the ramifications of culture there).

 

[leif erikson]

I do not know how to answer without seeing the options that we may have, and that requires writing.

Think we should move forward with the assumption that we will gift Rome and, once Writing is in, we can decide.

Personally, I'd like to found a city to gift but Htadus does not think there is time, so Rome will probably have to be gifted. And we cannot build another city until we can meet the number of Archers required in the Capital, population should not be a problem, so whipping Archers seems to be the only way to go.

 

[Jersey Joe]

This is based on Gifting Rome to Saladin

Plan 1480bc till learn writing in 1120bc:

Spoiler :

1480BC
Begin study of Writing
Rome worker moves to dry hill 1E of Rome
Caput worker moves 1SW to grass hill
Warrior above cows explores Nort and East

Revolt to slavery

1440BC

Revolt ends
Caput worker chops
Rome Worker chops
Rome whips archer

Caput Works Fish+Mine+Farm+Pig+Cottage
Rome Works Mine
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 0

1400BC

Caput worker chops
Rome Worker chops
Caput build queue switched to worker
Rome builds Archer starts Archer
Rome Archer moves to Caput

Caput Works Fish+Mine+Farm+Pig+Cottage
Rome Works Mine
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1360BC

Caput worker finishes chop
Rome worker finishes chop
Archer arrives at Caput. Caput warrior does not go scout.
Caput whips worker
Rome builds Archer starts Settler
Rome Archer moves to Caput

Caput Works Pig+Fish+Mine
Rome Works Mine
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1320BC

Caput worker mines
Caput worker moves 2N to forest hill
Rome Worker moves 1NE to dry forest

Rome switches build from Settler to Archer
Caput Works Fish+Pig+ Mine
Rome Works River Grass
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1280BC

Caput worker mines
Caput worker chops
Rome Worker chops

Caput Works Fish+Mine+2 Forested Hills
Rome Works Pig
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1240BC

Caput worker mines
Caput worker chops
Rome Worker chops
Rome whips archer

Caput Works Fish+Mine+2 Forested Hills
Rome Works Pig
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1200BC

Caput worker finishes mines
Caput worker finishes chop
Rome worker finishes chop
Rome builds Archer, Settler to top of queue

Caput Works Fish+ 2 Mine+Forested Hill
Rome Works Pig
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1160BC

Caput worker moves 1W to grass forest
Caput worker mines
Rome worker moves 1W to forested hill
Rome Archer to top of Queue

Caput Works 2 Mine+2 Forested Hills
Rome Works Pig
EP 4 to Saladin
Research 100

1120BC

Learn Writing
Start to study ??????????

After plan ends:
1080bc Rome whips archer
1000bc Rome finishes settler
975bc GLH done; Rome finishes archer
Rome can whip another archer in 925bc

 

[Ronnie1]

Are we whipping Rome from size 3 > 2, or 2 > 1?

If it is 3 > 2 then I am in agreement overall.

I will leave the worker actions to your judgement, but chop everything in Rome before gifting imo.

 

[neilmeister]

The whipping is 2 > 1, but done the turn before growth. As our workers will not be improving any tiles it seems reasonable to me.

The idea of gifting Rome is really growing on me and I like the plan, but don't forget we only need 4 archers to build a city if we gift Rome and the settler is higher priority.

So I would keep building the settler after the first 2 archers.

But anyway, play to Writing and then we can all argue some more about where the new City2 will go ..... and the tech path

 

[leif erikson]

4 Archers and a Settler.

Plan looks good.

 

[Jersey Joe]

In 1040bc the third Rome forest is chopped into the Settler. The Settler is built and leaves Rome in 1000bc, overflow from the settler builds the Archer that leaves Rome in 975BC (or stays there to guard it till Saladin can supply an Archer).

In about 50% of my tests as soon as Rome is gifted barbarians show up. They ignore the city if I leave the Archer and Warrior in it and pillage the mine. I do not gift the Archer and Warrior to Saladin, open borders just lets them remain till Saladin has forces guarding Rome.

Is it okay if I go ahead with the Plan as written?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Green here.

 

[leif erikson]

Green here as well.

 

[neilmeister]

Go for it

 

[Ronnie1]

Good to go! Good Luck!