If you want to net the fish ASAP that is okay, we could always send a Praet over to investigate if there is a passage.
SGOTM 22 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Ronnie1
Deity
@CP, yes, I fly home late tonight. Apparently we had a massive wind storm at home and are currently out of power. Hopefully it will be fixed soonish.
Over where, to investigate what?
Htadus, I don't see a good city site that strictly meets your criteria: "The forest city I was referring is located between the capital and Bagdad and on a none hill tile." Thinking a site 2E of the silk (that is, 3S1E of Najran) is best available. Shouldn't block trade routes, though will expand into a coastal square that can be sailed around. Your thoughts?
Htadus
A and L's dad
I am in favor of site you show. I understand that it will not have fish in BFC but we need to think a little beyond the immediate scenario. That city can have a pre chopped forest to build a monument. It has a deer tile that can be used to growing to size 2 and will likely get a iron mine to work along with dear while the city expand its boundary. There is plenty of time to work the fish. Capital can build a wb for all we know.
I think he is referring to a sea route around the south peninsula.
That is exactly the city site I am thinking about. BTW, I think we should found the forest city before we settle the Iron city. I can help with testing to determine the best order but securing the city will give time to pre-chop forests, expand borders and perhaps build a Rax. The Rax has to be your call. All we need is a mine and a road (assuming the iron city will be connected via coast to south) to get the iron connected to start units. All other cities should be pre-chopped too. We need a road to the forest city but that is both for connecting Iron and to get the rest of the Army to Arabia from other cities 2 tiles at a time.
Htadus is correct, I was referring to the tiles due west of were iron city would be built.
In the test game there is a sea passage from iron city to Caput, I would like to know if there is one in the real game. When I suggested that the WB built by iron city could explore for 10 -11 turns I meant total round trip time, sailing about 11 tiles west (in test game that reveals the passage) and then back, but a Praet can just as easily explore those tiles.
Why declare war on Saladin and not Bennus or Gilgamesh? 
When we declare war on Sal, we lose our trade routes with him and through his territory. That will hurt our economy. How will we make up the lost gpt which we need for research?
Also, losing the trade routes will make stealing from him more expensive. Should we not use most of the EPs we have accumulated against Sal to steal techs before declaring war?
When we declare war on Sal, we lose our trade routes with him and through his territory. That will hurt our economy. How will we make up the lost gpt which we need for research?
Also, losing the trade routes will make stealing from him more expensive. Should we not use most of the EPs we have accumulated against Sal to steal techs before declaring war?
With all the pre-chopping that is being contemplated and the necessity of road building across forested terrain, wondering if whipping a worker in the capital is the next build there. Whipping a Rax is another possibility, or just more archers and then whipping a settler. Thoughts?
Testing would certainly be appreciated. I won't have a great deal of time for it.
Htadus, building that forest city is an intriguing idea, but I do not understand the logistics involved especially with the limits we have on expansion.
How many workers would you allocate to the task of chopping forests?
Can you explain to me how this forest city will not be a drag on our economy? Will it not further reduce our slow rate of research?
If the forest city is out next build, Caput must grow to size 10 and one of our cities must build a settler for the iron to be hooked up. What are we going to do with forest city while waiting for iron to be hooked up (besides paying maintenance costs)?
After building the praets you want to abandon the city so Sal can capture it. What if Sal does not cooperate and capture this city? We are stuck with a less than optimal city that prevents/slows down our building or capturing a city that will help out empire.
The spot you picked for this city has 12 forests available for chopping.
After learning Math, chopping 12 forests nets 360 hammers (12*30) to use in building Praetorian. That means 8 praetorians are built in 48 turns (if 1 worker chops forests). In 48 turns Iron city can build 12 Praetorians, without chopping a forest or needing to learn Math and continue to build 1 Praet every 4 turns until there is a better unit to build. Tell me why we should build this forest city, if at all, before the iron city.
How many workers would you allocate to the task of chopping forests?
Can you explain to me how this forest city will not be a drag on our economy? Will it not further reduce our slow rate of research?
If the forest city is out next build, Caput must grow to size 10 and one of our cities must build a settler for the iron to be hooked up. What are we going to do with forest city while waiting for iron to be hooked up (besides paying maintenance costs)?
After building the praets you want to abandon the city so Sal can capture it. What if Sal does not cooperate and capture this city? We are stuck with a less than optimal city that prevents/slows down our building or capturing a city that will help out empire.
The spot you picked for this city has 12 forests available for chopping.
After learning Math, chopping 12 forests nets 360 hammers (12*30) to use in building Praetorian. That means 8 praetorians are built in 48 turns (if 1 worker chops forests). In 48 turns Iron city can build 12 Praetorians, without chopping a forest or needing to learn Math and continue to build 1 Praet every 4 turns until there is a better unit to build. Tell me why we should build this forest city, if at all, before the iron city.
This test is based on what Ronnie previously posted and my Guess at what he would do for the turn it takes to grow Caput to size 6. I did not spend any time on getting gold and food correct.
Soon after Ronnie posts his actual moves the test game will be revised to reflect actual play and this test version will be deleted.
Soon after Ronnie posts his actual moves the test game will be revised to reflect actual play and this test version will be deleted.
Appreciate your perseverance with the test games, Joe.
Ronnie1
Deity
Power still out at my house will try tomorrow.
Ronnie1
Deity
Yay! Power is back. Just played.
Pre-settle shot.
Upload log
Autolog
The save is here.
I'll have no game access from now until Dec 3. Some screenies will help me follow the discussion.
On the location of the Iron city, I favor the having the fish in the skinny square.
Pre-settle shot.
Spoiler :
Upload log
Spoiler :
Autolog
Spoiler :
The save is here.
I'll have no game access from now until Dec 3. Some screenies will help me follow the discussion.
On the location of the Iron city, I favor the having the fish in the skinny square.
Glad to hear you got power back. Thanks for posting so quickly.
Waiting for your revised test save, Joe, the green light from BSP (sent a PM), and input from the entire team (hopefully).
Ronnie1
Deity
I favor Alpha > Math.
I favor settling the iron city first with iron in first ring.
I favor settling the iron city first with iron in first ring.
Received go ahead for BSP. Will post some tentative plans in a 5 or 6 hours. Input on Diplomacy would be particularly appreciated.
Having looked at the save, have some questions for the team:
Why not go ahead and trade pigs for incense? We will have cows hooked soon to make up for the food loss, which isn't critical anyway, and having an extra happy face will make growing our capital (which is critical) easier.
If we're going to use our GM to create a trade route, we should do it now, and I can't think of a better plan for him. So refresh my memory. Where did we decide we should send him?
Saladin's nearest cities are hill cities, and hill cities are generally not worth the expenditure of units required to capture them, unless cats are available. So, would the plan be to go after Darius's city NW of Antium and then move further in that direction, presumably having done some scouting in that direction before we go to war?
Now more strongly in favor of Iron City next. After that, Joe raises some issues with Htadus's forest city, and there are a couple of alternatives that merit consideration:
What does the team think of a city sited on the forest 1NW of the horses? Has corn, a powerful horse pasture production tile, 7 forests to chop, and eventually a winery. It would be a pretty good quick production city worth keeping.
Alternatively, what about the better long-term site 2E of the horses, which has the crabs?
Ronnie, why do you have archers moving toward Antium? Are they needed to defend the city? If so, from whom? What can you tell me about recent barb activity?
Is there a reason not to put a very high priority on getting a settler out of the capital (for Iron City), then getting the needed units and pop there ASAP, as settler moves toward Iron City site? Propose to use worker1's chop to speed this.
What about a wkbt after the settler to be send around the peninsula to clear trade rout and then net fish?
Why not go ahead and trade pigs for incense? We will have cows hooked soon to make up for the food loss, which isn't critical anyway, and having an extra happy face will make growing our capital (which is critical) easier.
If we're going to use our GM to create a trade route, we should do it now, and I can't think of a better plan for him. So refresh my memory. Where did we decide we should send him?
Saladin's nearest cities are hill cities, and hill cities are generally not worth the expenditure of units required to capture them, unless cats are available. So, would the plan be to go after Darius's city NW of Antium and then move further in that direction, presumably having done some scouting in that direction before we go to war?
Now more strongly in favor of Iron City next. After that, Joe raises some issues with Htadus's forest city, and there are a couple of alternatives that merit consideration:
What does the team think of a city sited on the forest 1NW of the horses? Has corn, a powerful horse pasture production tile, 7 forests to chop, and eventually a winery. It would be a pretty good quick production city worth keeping.
Alternatively, what about the better long-term site 2E of the horses, which has the crabs?
Ronnie, why do you have archers moving toward Antium? Are they needed to defend the city? If so, from whom? What can you tell me about recent barb activity?
Is there a reason not to put a very high priority on getting a settler out of the capital (for Iron City), then getting the needed units and pop there ASAP, as settler moves toward Iron City site? Propose to use worker1's chop to speed this.
What about a wkbt after the settler to be send around the peninsula to clear trade rout and then net fish?
Agree. More
the better.The discussion starts on page 23 and post 457 We get more gold in the Temple of Artemis city, but we do not know where it is. The difference is 300 gold. Think we can just go to Gift?
EP's are on Darius. They are of no use while at war, are they?
Was looking at the horse city site yesterday. Like 2E of the horses now that Iron is available to us. That also gives us another coastal city and benefits from Great Lighthouse.
Looks like they are watching over the worker there.
Agree with this approach.
Also agree that it would be good to open up that route. Horse City would also benefit.
Htadus
A and L's dad
Joe, if we are going to take 48 turns to build all these units, then we might as well as settle to play a space game. Otherwise, we use all our resources to get this war on. That means founding these cities as soon as possible and getting the war going.
Also I believe it is 16 forests total. 13 turn for 4 workers.
First I propose a different location to found the chop city. 1S of the original location. This city will also not block coastal passage to Arabia and will be instantly connected to the capital via coast and get us up to 6 gpt. Saves us 12 turns to build a road to connect the city.
OK here is the scenario I see.
Send GM to do the trade now and trade pig to Sal for happy resource.
Switch capital to build a settler. 2 turns.
Move that archer (1) heading to HE city toward the Forest city tile. That city does not need a defender. And if someone want to come and take it from us, then it will speed our war very much.
Learn Math on full speed.
Cow city start an archer and whip it next turn. It need to provide 2 archers and chop a settler to do this and then a worker. This need to be tuned.
In 2 turns, the capital switch to a wb and then archers and onto full growth. Priority is growing to size 8 (4-5 turns working food tiles) and then to 10. So the capital need two more farms. When the WB is done, it should go check the peninsula to see if the Iron city can be connected via coast.
So in 7-8 turns from now, we should settle the Chop city. 2 workers start chopping with Math already learned or about to learn. Chop the Monument and Rax and start prechopping. Eventually all the workers should be there.
Yes I am completely ignoring the HE city. It can work on its own new worker at size 2.
In about 12 turns from now we should be settling the Iron city. We should prebuild a road on the Iron by the time we settle and another 6 turns to build a mine. Or we could build the city on the Iron.
Well that is basically the idea.
@ CP. I do not even want to go after the hill cities at all. Our goal should be medina and Mecca. we can raze cities along the way but not before capturing the two prizes. If for some reason the culture boundary around Basra does not grow, we can attack Medina 3 turns after DoWing and Mecca on 6th turn. There are other logistics that need attention too like where to get the 4th worker.
If we are going to war then no la la gaging plan and execute asap. BTW, the reason for going after Sal is that those are some sweet cities and if we can get to him before he gets his dredded LB's, we are golden.
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