Just to keep the tally correct. I'm the one that doesn't want another settler (after Stonecity). ZPV, last I read, still wants to settle Fredburg.
SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Just to keep the tally correct. I'm the one that doesn't want another settler (after Stonecity). ZPV, last I read, still wants to settle Fredburg.
LowtherCastle
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I guess my post is ambiguous. I was saying I agree with ZPV's argument and Mitchum's counter-argumient, but not building the extra settler has a stronger weight for me.
I suppose we could just skip COws-E instead, but then who knows what Fred will do. Better to let him settle Fredburg, which he surely will at some point.
Mitchum
Deity
I think we're all on board with HBR next. The only open issue is whether to settle Fredburg, NorthCows or StoneCity with our current settler. Now that we're not planning to settle HaGift, I'm fine with any of the options. We already have detailed worker and Paris MM to make our next Paris settler go towards StoneCity. However, as LC brought up, maybe we don't want to whip Paris down to 3 pops with so many great tiles to work. That suggests that our current settler goes to StoneCity (we rework the Paris and worker MM) and the next one goes to either NorthCow or Fredburg... but it wouldn't make sense to have the next settler go to Fredburg since we have one that could settle that city right now. 
So I think we have these options:
1. Current settles Fredburg, next settles StoneCity
2. Current settles NorthCows, next settles StoneCity
3. Current settles StoneCity, next settles NorthCows
4. Current settles StoneCity, start building an army already
So I think we have these options:1. Current settles Fredburg, next settles StoneCity
2. Current settles NorthCows, next settles StoneCity
3. Current settles StoneCity, next settles NorthCows
4. Current settles StoneCity, start building an army already
I haven't seen the 'paris plan' lately. When would be the earliest we can get a chariot?
In other words...can we improve the horses sooner/get chariot sooner? (remember, we get the tile T51, not when we settle Stonecity)
In other words...can we improve the horses sooner/get chariot sooner? (remember, we get the tile T51, not when we settle Stonecity)
Mitchum
Deity
I keep forgetting that Paris is about to pop borders. First the fish and now the horses.You make a good point about an early chariot. Here is the current plan (includes GW OF which is off the table now and stuff prior to T48 so you can see the hammers in the granary):
Code:
Turn Pop FPT Food HPT Hammers Build Comment
44 5 6 0 2 17 Granary 90% slider, work 2f1c, not deer; 30 f-b
45 5 9 6 3 19 Granary 100%, work deer, FurCity Avoid Growth, 32 f-b
46 5 0 15 12 0 Worker Unavoid Growth, 32 f-b
47 5 0 15 13 12 Worker FurCity works cottage; Paris 3f
48 5 0 15 0 25 Worker Anarchy
49 3 0 15 12 85 Worker
50 3 11 15 4+37 22 Granary Paris Avoid Growth, cows pastured
51 3 11 26 4+3 0 Library Unavoid Growth
52 4 11 22 5 7 Library
53 5 11 19 5 12 Library
54 6 0 15 16+16? 0 Settler chop done (16h)
55 whip settler
56 Paris build research
57 build research, settle Stone City at Paris-3w1n, quarry stone
58 build research
59 maxOF into GW
Code:
worker1 wkr2
======= ====
48 past
49 past
50 past mv Par-2w1n
51 mv Par-3w1n rd Par-2w1n
52 chop rd Par-2w1n
53 chop rd stone
54 chop rd stone
55 rd rd stone-1s
56 quarry quarry
57 quarry quarry
58 quarry quarryWe can re-work this to get an earlier chariot and a later settler with no hammers in a library, of course.
EDIT: This worker micro avoids the copper. There is newer stuff available. Hang on.
EDIT 2: Here is the newer worker micro from LC
Code:
worker1 wkr2
======= ====
48 past
49 past
50 past mine cu
51 mv Par-3w1n mine cu
52 chop mine cu
53 chop mine cu
54 chop mv nw
55 rd stone rd
56 rd stone rd
57 quarry quarry
58 quarry quarry
59 quarry quarryMitchum
Deity
If we can agree on city settling order, I can work on Paris and worker MM tonight...
Mitchum
Deity
I started thinking about an elaborate plan to use our current settler for StoneCity and using 3 workers to put things into hyperdrive around Paris and to get the horses online ASAP.
Then I remembered that if we move our settler and worker west and our warrior east to steal more workers, we're like to get a barb or two spawning between us and Fred. I don't think that's a great idea seeing as that we don't have any MP units around and a barb archer could pose problems for us.
So now I'm leaning toward settling NorthCows with our current settler and StoneCity with our second. That gives us time to improve the cows, copper and horses in a timely manner and chop the forest under StoneCity.
Should I work on optimizing that plan? Or are people fine with barbs spawning to our NE?
Then I remembered that if we move our settler and worker west and our warrior east to steal more workers, we're like to get a barb or two spawning between us and Fred. I don't think that's a great idea seeing as that we don't have any MP units around and a barb archer could pose problems for us.
So now I'm leaning toward settling NorthCows with our current settler and StoneCity with our second. That gives us time to improve the cows, copper and horses in a timely manner and chop the forest under StoneCity.
Should I work on optimizing that plan? Or are people fine with barbs spawning to our NE?
LowtherCastle
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Just go with NorthCows. No barbs.
Mitchum
Deity
Spoiler :
This is quite the conundrum. I'm thinking about this for possible worker micro. This improves the cows ASAP, chops the forest under StoneCity and get's the horses connected by T56.
Code:
worker1 wkr2 wkr3
======= ==== ====
48 past cw move
49 past cw move
50 past cw move Paris-W+NW move
51 mv NW+N road past Ncw
52 chop road past Ncw
53 chop past hs past Ncw
54 chop past hs past Ncw
55 past hs past hs mv NorthCow-NE
56 rd hs rd hs chop
57 mine CU mine CU chop
58 mine CU mine CU chopIf we skip the chop, we can have the horses connected by T55 (only 1 turn sooner).
Code:
worker1 wkr2 wkr3
======= ==== ====
48 past cw move
49 past cw move
50 past cw move Paris-W+NW move
51 mine CU road past Ncw
52 past hs road past Ncw
53 past hs past hs past Ncw
54 rd hs past hs past Ncw
55 rd hs mine CU mv NorthCow-NE
56 mine CU mine CU chop
57 --- --- chop
58 --- --- chopWe don't NEED the road at Paris-W+NW since StoneCity will be connected by sea, right? So we could do the chop and have horses connected by T55. Although, we'll want that road at Paris-W-NW to speed up future troop movement.
Code:
worker1 wkr2 wkr3
======= ==== ====
48 past cw move
49 past cw move
50 past cw move Paris-W+NW move
51 mv NW+N rd hs past Ncw
52 chop rd hs past Ncw
53 chop past hs past Ncw
54 chop past hs past Ncw
55 past hs past hs mv NorthCow-NE
56 mine CU mine CU chop
57 mine CU mine CU chop
58 --- --- chopThen, if we want horses ASAP, we could get them by T52 but we wouldn't finish the cow pasture which seems like a bad move because Paris could really use the cow..
Code:
worker1 wkr2 wkr3
======= ==== ====
48 mv move
49 rd cw move
50 rd cw move Paris-W+NW move
51 past hs past hs past Ncw
52 past hs past hs past NcwSo we need to decide if we want horses ASAP or if we can delay them a bit. We have to decide if 4 worker turns and a chop is worth 16H. We have to decide if earlier access to horses is more important than improving the copper (2F4H) so that Paris has another great tile to work. And then we have to synchronize Paris builds with all of this. We also have to decide if we're willing to whip Paris down to 3 pops when there are 3 and soon to be 5 tiles we want to work at all times.
Quite the optimization problem. My gut says that the first option is the best. It gets the chop, it improves cows first, it builds the road we'll need anyway and still gets horses online by T56 and the copper by T58.
If we follow LC's original micro for Paris, the OF from the settler whip on T55 goes straight into a chariot on T56 and we're off to the races. BTW, instead of a Library, we can put hammers into a Barracks on T51 to T53.
+1 ...
That all sounds good Mitchum, I like where you're going. Basically, if you have the Paris hammers timed well to go into chariots that's the best we can do. No library obviously. Rax is a good option. Be sure to set up a 2-whip there. No way you put more than 19h in it.
Mitchum
Deity
Plans:
1. HBR
2. First worker micro in post 629 and Paris micro in post 625 with barracks instead of library and chariot instead of Research/GW
3. Gift Writing as planned but also pick up Archery in trade for HAs.
4. Exploration as planned with Jesus (Joao -> Hatty), warrior (Sal -> Hatty) and scout (NE if clear else south).
5. EPs on Hatty
6. Settle NorthCows at cow-E, build granary, one chop.
7. Warrior goes back into position for another worker steal
Did I miss anything? Feel free to comment, disagree, suggest, etc. I'll play some turns tomorrow unless anyone has any issues. I'm handing off on Friday.
Edit: xpost
1. HBR
2. First worker micro in post 629 and Paris micro in post 625 with barracks instead of library and chariot instead of Research/GW
3. Gift Writing as planned but also pick up Archery in trade for HAs.
4. Exploration as planned with Jesus (Joao -> Hatty), warrior (Sal -> Hatty) and scout (NE if clear else south).
5. EPs on Hatty
6. Settle NorthCows at cow-E, build granary, one chop.
7. Warrior goes back into position for another worker steal
Did I miss anything? Feel free to comment, disagree, suggest, etc. I'll play some turns tomorrow unless anyone has any issues. I'm handing off on Friday.
Edit: xpost
When you say scout NE how do you plan to do that?
One step into a jungle NE exposes you to you 3-5 possible barb tiles.
If you want to go that way instead of back to Persia, then I would suggest going North to hug the mountains.
I'm no barb expert, but they won't go next to gandhi's culture, right? unless they attack a unit there.
By going North first, then N-NEt, there is a good chance the barbs won't be there because of Persia culture or China should not be far away.
I'm scared, but it's only our scout. Good luck!
LowtherCastle
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How scared? Lily-livered, pansy, cream-puff scared?
Just to be clear, my suggestion for NE meant only going on flat tiles, 1 per turn, as far as possible. If blocked by a wall of 1-mvmt tiles, then return.
LowtherCastle
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Note also that by defogging the coastal tiles around India, we might meet AI #12 via wb or indirectly. In any case, we're not in a massive hurry to meet #12 or the Orient. Even if we wait for Gandhi and #12 to meet culturally, it's likely to be sooner than sending out another scout later on. Meeting 11 by Alpha was a massive success. We got lucky on Mao. We can count our blessings and be patient. Or get impatient and be mental. 
LowtherCastle
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Not an "issue" but one final question (without access to the map), Mitchum, what if our Fred wkr farms FurCity? I can see him spawnbusting the Wine-NE tile. Does that thoroughly spawnbust the area and allow Paris to grow to pop7 before whipping without seriously affecting our MM? Or does Paris grow so fast that it's better both cities sooner? Seems like Paris is fixing to have a lot of whip unhappiness if we whip everything. Which incidentally sounds liek another reason for NorthCOws and sharing as many of those tiles as possible.
Mitchum
Deity
LC fog gazed a flat tile or two just NE of where our scout is. If I take one step, I'll be able to tell if there is jungle all around or if there is a path. I will NOT step onto a jungle tile going NE. If it's blocked, I'll explore south of India in the off chance something interesting is down there. Then I'll head back up to Persia to try WT's plan.Mitchum
Deity
I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean. My plan was to have him pasture the northern cow tile then put one chop into Cow-E. Then he would be free to help around Paris. Are you suggesting that he not do any of that and dead head to FurCity? I'm not sure that's worth it. Paris will be using its deer tile so that would severely stunt Cow-E which is already being settled ~6 turns later than it otherwise could have been.
I'm pretty sure that once we plant Cow-E and with our warrior up by Fred, the entire area will be spawn busted. I'll have to check again. If our warrior dies, there may be one un-spawn-busted tile.
LowtherCastle
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Never mind, Mitchum. I don't even like the FurCity farm at this point in time. I prefer to see us growing Paris cottages. I'd like to see the Paris cottage shared with NorthCows get built sooner or later too. A little less growth for those cottage spammers in exchange for a nice set of villages around Paris.
+1 on your plan. Play on whenever you want.
+1 on your plan. Play on whenever you want.
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